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How to neutralize pyshologically RAW inflitration prevent them from sabotaging cdn sikhs -game of chankaya

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Based on the recommend by BHforce veer, i am opening new thread on its own as i don't want to go off-topic from jagmeet singh thread, please discuss your recommendation and brainstorming ideas

Here is an JAW DROPPING ARTICLES REVEALS SO MUCH from intelligence officers article, i will post my thoughts based on my limited buddhi below:

 
 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/jaspal-atwal-1.4563222

Opinion

Why wasn't Jaspal Atwal on Canada's no-fly list?: Neil Macdonald

It is unlikely that any effort was made to vet Atwal's name with CSIS

By Neil Macdonald, CBC News Posted: Mar 06, 2018 4:00 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 06, 2018 4:00 AM ET

Justin Trudeau's Minister of Infrastructure and Communities Amarjeet Sohi pictured with Jaspal Atwal in Mumbai Feb. 20.

Justin Trudeau's Minister of Infrastructure and Communities Amarjeet Sohi pictured with Jaspal Atwal in Mumbai Feb. 20. (Name withheld by request)

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About The Author

Photo of Neil Macdonald

Neil Macdonald
Opinion Columnist

Neil Macdonald is an opinion columnist for CBC News, based in Ottawa. Prior to that he was the CBC's Washington correspondent for 12 years, and before that he spent five years reporting from the Middle East. He also had a previous career in newspapers, and speaks English and French fluently, and some Arabic.

 

Never mind the matter of why the failed assassin Jaspal Atwal would be invited to any sort of diplomatic reception, let alone one starring Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his wife. Political parties can be venal and willfully blind to ugly realities in pursuit of votes, and that should be no surprise.

The better question is this: how in heaven's name was that man allowed to set foot on a passenger aircraft, in an age of no-fly lists so strict that babies with names similar to violent extremists are denied boarding?

The answer is that Jaspal Atwal is not on the list, and almost certainly never was, despite the fact that by any of the definitions law enforcement uses to define a terrorist, Jaspal Atwal is a terrorist. And not an aspirational one, either, like some of the clumsy fools who have been reeled in over the years by overweening government stings.  

No, Jaspal Atwal belonged to a cohort of Sikh extremists who, from their base in Canada, fought a violent war against the government of India in the '80s. Their hatred may very well have been justified – the Indian government was as ruthlessly vicious as they were.

Air India bombing

But the facts are not arguable: Atwal's fellow travellers bombed a jumbo jet, killing 329 innocent souls, over the North Atlantic in 1985. And they narrowly failed to bring down a second airliner, which instead exploded on the tarmac at Tokyo's main airport, killing two baggage handlers.

Atwal himself tried his very best a year later to murder a high official of the Indian government on Canadian soil. He failed only because his target, Malkiat Singh Sidhu, managed to feign death, despite the two bullets Atwal and his confederates had already fired into his body. (Five years later, other Sikh extremists finished the job for Atwal, murdering Sidhu near his home in Moga).

In any case, in their day, Atwal and his ideological colleagues were in the same league as, and in fact even more deadly than other far more famous groups: the Baader-Meinhof gang, the Shining Path, Black September, the IRA, the Red Army Faction.

Certainly, they were a far more lethal threat than the disturbed homeless man who shot a reserve soldier in the name of Allah in Ottawa nearly four years ago, and was subsequently shot dead himself in the Parliament buildings, providing hawks with justification for a controversial new anti-terrorist law.

Sikh extremists were a closed, fanatical bunch, and virtually impossible to penetrate, as Canada's nascent intelligence service learned. They were CSIS's first and greatest failure; Canada's international shame, a former CSIS chieftain called them.

And yet there was Atwal, posing with a beaming Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, at a Canadian diplomatic reception in India last month, having boarded a plane and flown to India a few days earlier.

Sophie Trudeau, Jaspal Atwal

Sophie Trudeau and Jaspal Atwal pictured at a film industry influencers event with Indian film stars in Mumbai Feb. 20. (Name withheld by request)

The explanation for the invitation is pretty obvious: Atwal, since his release from prison decades ago, has remained active in Sikh politics, and became prominent in the apparatus of the Liberal Party of Canada, which depends heavily on the Sikh vote. Atwal was in fact invited to the reception by a Sikh Liberal MP, and he has been posing for photos with Liberals, federal and provincial, for years.

It is unlikely that any effort was made to vet Atwal's name with CSIS. His name is in the CSIS system, and would have been instantly flagged.

But the explanation for his ability to get on a flight to India is far more interesting. In search of that answer, I spoke recently to four former Canadian intelligence officers from the era of the Sikh wars. All, as you'd expect, were disgusted at the photo of Atwal in India. Three of them once had roles overseeing Canada's no-fly list.

The list, they say, is exceedingly short, at least compared to the American list. It is curated by Transport Canada, with input from CSIS and the RCMP, and it remains secret. In order to be placed on it, said one ex-spy, authorities have to make the case to a multi-departmental committee that the individual poses a threat to aviation — a bar one of the agents who participated in the committee meetings felt was far too high. Often, he said, CSIS would come away frustrated in its efforts to have an individual placed on the list.

And especially since 9/11, the focus of the list, and of our intelligence agencies, has been just about exclusively on Islamic jihadists. Its greatest recent growth has been fed by names of Canadians who have flown off to fight in Syria.

Canada's spies are bound tightly to their American counterparts, and respond to American priorities, and, says one of the ex-agents I spoke to, the Americans never really cared about Sikh extremists. As far as they were concerned, the Sikhs were just killing each other, which was fine with them.

(It should be noted here that of the 329 killed in the Air India bombing, the vast majority carried Canadian passports. None was an American citizen).

All four of the former intelligence officers I spoke with reckoned that Atwal cannot possibly be on the American no-fly list either, because Canadian carriers are extremely skittish about boarding anyone on that list, even on a flight not flying into American airspace.

Let's go beyond Atwal, though. Here is another excellent question: What about Inderjit Singh Reyat, who served time in prison for actually building the bomb that brought down Air India Flight 182 in 1985, and who is now free on parole? Is he on our no-fly list?

Or Ajaib Singh Bagri? Or Ripudaman Singh Malik? Both those men were early, prominent members of Babbar Khalsa, the group that hatched the airliner bombings, and while they were acquitted in court of conspiracy and murder, any ISIS- or al-Qaeda-style jihadi with their credentials would likely never fly again. Are they on the Canadian list?

It is worth considering that Sikh extremist groups – Babbar Khalsa, or the International Sikh Youth Federation, to which Atwal belonged – have more in common with the IRA, or the FLQ in Quebec, than with, say, ISIS.

Like the IRA, the Sikh groups are not regarded as terrorists, and indeed warmly regarded, in certain sectors of their diasporas. The IRA enjoyed considerable fundraising and popularity in cities like Boston and Montreal back in the days when it was carrying out bombings of British targets, and the portrait of Talwinder Singh Parmar, the founder of Babbar Khalsa and mastermind of the Air India bombing, still hangs in Sikh religious centres in British Columbia.

Paul Rose, the leader of the FLQ cell that kidnapped and strangled Quebec cabinet minister Pierre Laporte in 1970, entered politics after his release from prison and was even a nominated candidate for the New Democratic Party of Quebec in 1992. Quebecers took a much more sympathetic view of him than English Canadians. Atwal is sort of a Sikh version of Paul Rose.

But even if he evaded placement on the no-fly list, and wangled an invitation to a prime ministerial event, there is one more puzzling question about his visit to India: Why would the Indian government have let him in?

The Indians despise Sikh separatists, and agents of the RAW, India's intelligence agency, have been caught repeatedly operating against Sikhs on Canadian soil (If you can't deal with these bastards, we will, RAW reportedly once told CSIS).

All of the ex-agents I spoke to had the same theory: Atwal, they assume, had elected to cooperate with Indian intelligence. That, and a decision by the current Indian government to pursue some sort of rapprochement with the Sikh diaspora – the Khalistani separatist movement in Canada is now all but moribund – would explain his ease in obtaining an Indian visa.

Lucky fellow, our Mr. Atwal. Time has passed, and memories have faded. Perhaps the men currently sitting in cages in Guantanamo Bay have some hope after all.

But perhaps, just out of an abundance of caution, it would be better to keep them off airplanes.

 

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21 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

so basically he is saying that atwal is an ex khalistani turn GOI operative? I wonder how many more of these there are.... :waheguru:

Yeah.

47 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

But even if he evaded placement on the no-fly list, and wangled an invitation to a prime ministerial event, there is one more puzzling question about his visit to India: Why would the Indian government have let him in?

Well, one thing known for certain is that India, like every country, has a list of persons not to be allowed into the country. So, if Terry M, Jonathan Kay, and friends had a shred of journalistic integrity, they'd be roaring to find out the answer to the above question.

But they're not journalists, they're hacks.

I do not say that Atwal should not have been punished for whatever he did, nor am I saying he should have necessarily been invited to a party, but the incessant bleating over a TERRORIST at a party with the PM is overdone.

Here's a picture of the Queen of England shaking hands with former IRA commander (terrorist) Martin McGuinness:

hi-handshake-852-cp-0286897-8col.jpg

 

Also see here: Queen shaking hands with terrorists and dictators

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/10/awkward-handshakes-through-history

Wish Sikh leaders/media personalities in Canada would have brought this up.

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well well well i knew there was something fishy about this so called "sikh extremist" mr athwal.

Guys from now on question every Sikh leader, every Sikh activist and question their activities and motives if they deliberately harm Sikhs, Khalistan movement and our good honorable reputation.

We know who the true Sikh leaders are and now is the time to expose the rats .....those extremist agents of terrorist R&AW and other intelligence agencies because these rats have been damaging our community's interests and reputation for their anti-sikh paymasters for a long time now and its paying dividends for Indian establishment and others who want people to hate or have negative perception of our community.

We also need to question the so called indo-canadian gangs....who been killing and corrupting canadian Sikh youths since 80s...How do they get their drugs? Is it CSIS supplying them to them? or is R&AW involved? We need to question everything..

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Amazing interview by wso-world sikh canadian body repersenting sikhs in canada to cbc, raw want us to isolate,  box and confine sikhi/ whole sikh seperatism into sant jarnail singh bhindranwale -1980 era, our narrative should be as SIKH SOVEREIGNTY STARTED FROM 1699 AND MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH ERA:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/programs/edmontonam/singh-and-sikh-unfair-focus-for-the-ndp-leader-1.4582557

Get behind this narrative, hold to this narrative firmly.!!

 

 

Edited by N30S1NGH
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37 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

Amazing interview by wso-world sikh canadian body repersenting sikhs in canada to cbc, raw want us to isolate,  box and confine sikhi/ whole sikh seperatism into sant jarnail singh bhindranwale -1980 era, our narrative should be as SIKH SOVEREIGNTY STARTED FROM 1699 AND MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH ERA:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/programs/edmontonam/singh-and-sikh-unfair-focus-for-the-ndp-leader-1.4582557

Get behind this narrative, hold to this narrative firmly.!!

 

 

Good posts and assessment of the situation so far!

And totally agree with what the enemies of Sikhs want Sikhs to do. I wouldnt go as far as get with the 3HO nutters but I would suggest a different Sikhi version of yoga is created to bring more non-sikhs into sikhi and not into the 3HO cult because it is not a Sikh organization as their non-sikh leaders stated in court few years back.

Jagmeet singh has so far done great. Few months ago when that far right wing canadian jewish exremist woman jumped on stage to abuse him call him a muslim and sharia law he calmed her down and projected the image of love and peace and co-existance which is exactly what Sikhs want for everyone.

Punjabi Sikhs by nature are hot heads it is in the blood so it is very difficult for them to not react violently or aggressively against those who attack us because its a defence mechnism that has kept our community alive and survived from all those centuries of persecution. But yes our people do need to learn not to react but to analyse why are people trying to make us react violently for them only to set a trap for us to give negative perceptions of Sikhs.

The unreasonable violent or those who persist in causing trouble within sikh circles the so called Sikhs are probably in the pay of intelligence agencies and they need to be called out. Many times these people have caused violent fights in gurdwaray in various countries. The person who reacts violently and attacks a speaker no matter how bad his speech is the person who is either a paid agent of some intelligence agency or a useful patsy puppet that was worked up by other agents to cause a ruckus for their own ends.

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I have agreed with you on some issues and disagreed on others, as with other posters. But you are absolutely on fire here.

39 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

RAW in the backdrop watches influences directly or indirectly-, influences both ultra hot headed pro and ultra hot headed anti stance on dasam granth/missionaries- watch sikhs tearing each other part, if there is message of unity- it creates insecurity, fear, hyper, paranoia to keep the fire going.

Excellent point. They don't really care (they may care a bit, but not that much) about the pro and anti on Dasam Granth or other hotbutton issues. What they really care about is Sikhs fighting Sikhs like dogs.

1 hour ago, N30S1NGH said:

- Worst thing sikh could react is with fear, paranoia calling each other agents anti panthic , fighting violently against each other. Do polar opposite see each other with non devise eyes, dialogue, debate, constructive vichar - and leave it that.

Yeah, that's a problem. The classic case of calling everybody you disagree with an agent.

1 hour ago, N30S1NGH said:

keep on moving getting inspired by our role models in canada such as harjit singh sajjan- defense minister- apply for gov't jobs, learn french, apply police, rcmp, miltary jobs, media

Great advice. Get soft power. Work from behind the scenes to influence policy and events.

1 hour ago, N30S1NGH said:

. Yogi amandeep singh udasi nirmala already doing amazing job.

I'm not a fan of Kundalini Yoga, but having Sikhs as yoga instructors is great propaganda, certainly better than the image Sikhs killing dissenters, like Baljeet Singh of NY shooting up "Giani" Kuldeep Singh.

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1 hour ago, genie said:

well well well i knew there was something fishy about this so called "sikh extremist" mr athwal.

Guys from now on question every Sikh leader, every Sikh activist and question their activities and motives if they deliberately harm Sikhs, Khalistan movement and our good honorable reputation.

We know who the true Sikh leaders are and now is the time to expose the rats .....those extremist agents of terrorist R&AW and other intelligence agencies because these rats have been damaging our community's interests and reputation for their anti-sikh paymasters for a long time now and its paying dividends for Indian establishment and others who want people to hate or have negative perception of our community.

We also need to question the so called indo-canadian gangs....who been killing and corrupting canadian Sikh youths since 80s...How do they get their drugs? Is it CSIS supplying them to them? or is R&AW involved? We need to question everything..

You know what bugs me western canadians can't put the two together:

They keep going on in the parliament- randeep singh sarai took responsibility- inviting atval to the guest list- yes thats partial blame on him and it was mistake by pmo and yet pmo his national security advisor is claiming goi is behind atval to embrass canadian diplomacy and pmo. How could this to be both events be true mr spreaker? they are contradictory they keep going on on with this even after public safety minister already said subtly - they are not mutually exclusive.

They still don't get it:

Here is all this play outed- this atval guy was in liberal conventions, conservatives mp-went to parliament, heck he even has a picture with famous hockey player- wayne gretzky in the past- he is perfect pawn to create media uproar in canada, bad optics all around

Due to his proximity with all politic stripes in canada they used him un black listed him years ago invited him to india in pretext of we forgive you, reapproachedment, reconciliation only to use him in this grand master plan- exploited his proximity with liberal party and association with sikh mps- created perfect scenario last feb invited him to india just like nature creates perfect scenario/suitations- black clouds, wind  and spontenous thunder flash rain happens on its own and just sat back and relax waited for final thunder storm- final push boom invitation request to randeep sarai-boom onus is on canada.

CSIS failed this miserably, can't beleive they would let raw meddle in canadian affairs - rather throw their own pm under the bus and embrass him didnt catch it- either they are just as guilty with whole air india fiasco with parmar just as guilty or they being so called non paristan dont want to be involved in poltics to save future diplomacy with india.

One thing i learned for sure, CSIS serves no political party in canada nor too concerned about national interest of their own current pmo their main goal is they dont want to de-stabilize intelligence gathering/diplomaca relations with other countries period. In their current motto- pmo changes all the time, CSIS with their counter parts remains forever.

Both of these former csis former intelligence directors in media(CTV and on CBC) downplayed GOI india role in atval affair yet these article whether its written in despise of sikhs surely sheds more light than their directors ever did. In fact thats all SIKHS GOT RECONFIRMATION VALIDATION FROM EX CANADIAN INTEL AGENTS!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH

 

 

Edited by N30S1NGH
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21 minutes ago, genie said:

And totally agree with what the enemies of Sikhs want Sikhs to do. I wouldnt go as far as get with the 3HO nutters but I would suggest a different Sikhi version of yoga is created to bring more non-sikhs into sikhi and not into the 3HO cult because it is not a Sikh organization as their non-sikh leaders stated in court few years back.

The problem I see with "Yogi Amandeep Singh" is he calls " Siri Singh Sahib Bhai Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogi Ji" his "master". 

If he wants to be an Udasi or Nirmala, that's fine.

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Just now, BhForce said:

The problem I see with "Yogi Amandeep Singh" is he calls " Siri Singh Sahib Bhai Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogi Ji" his "master". 

If he wants to be an Udasi or Nirmala, that's fine.

Anyway that was just an example here, HERE HE CALLS NANAK AS PARBHRAM VAHIGURU AGAIN GREAT PARCHAR:

 

 

 

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I really hope in our nagar kirtans in canada they spin the whole sikh sovereignty issue dated back to 1699 and maharaja ranjit singh as wso has done in the interview. Less focus rhetoric of khalistan- more sikh sovergeinty rally mixed diversity mixed banners- khalistan, sikh 2020 referendum, sikh sovergienty confused the hell out of media-force them to educate so they CANNOT pin one narrative on us as they have done.

Quote

RAW want cdn sikhs to relive trauma and divisiveness of 1980s again in current political climate get worked up

 

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World leaders meeting/shaking hands with terrorists/dictators/unsavory characters:

ccd794ba-a47d-4e62-b0da-9b3687a2b5d1-206

9523b699-fa89-4f01-9079-3362e67cf86e-102

Ghadafi:

bfeb6606-fec9-4d11-be24-d9696d0dca60-206

Robert Mugabe/Jack Straw

bc93be2f-132e-4c85-a670-a21447eef524-300

Yitzhak Rabin/Yassir Arafat

2c2168df-b1bb-41ce-bc37-9bd7ee6a8026-206

Assad:

gettyimages-107934255.jpg

Mobutu Sese Seko

3CB5A30800000578-0-image-a-7_14859108293

 

After all this, people are wailing about some wannabe (Atwal) who made an attempt to kill some diplomat? Ghadafi was the mastermind behind the Lockerbie bombing, and Western governments totally forgave him (before they decided to depose him). 

Tony Blair and Ghadafi about to French kiss:

blair-gaddafi.jpg

Did Terry M give the same treatment to Tony Blair? Pathetic.

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5 hours ago, genie said:

 

We also need to question the so called indo-canadian gangs....who been killing and corrupting canadian Sikh youths since 80s...How do they get their drugs? Is it CSIS supplying them to them? or is R&AW involved? We need to question everything..

They get their drugs the same way every other gang does. There is no intelligence agencies conspiracy. They are also not seperate entity with a grudge against Sikh youth, and are out to corrupt them. 

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6 hours ago, N30S1NGH said:

I really hope in our nagar kirtans in canada they spin the whole sikh sovereignty issue dated back to 1699 and maharaja ranjit singh as wso has done in the interview. Less focus rhetoric of khalistan- more sikh sovergeinty rally mixed diversity mixed banners- khalistan, sikh 2020 referendum, sikh sovergienty confused the hell out of media-force them to educate so they CANNOT pin one narrative on us as they have done.

 

You made really good points.

RAW is still scared of sikhs and is determined not to let the 1980s happen again.

It has been pointed out by some sants and gursikhs that RAW is even paying agents to be sikhs in heavily sikh populated areas. There is 1 agent in california who is sabat soorat and even his daughters wear dastaars.

This makes sense as you may remember most of the enthusiasm, man power, and financial support for gadar came from the west. I dont think this was the case in 84 except maybe canada. 

So the indian govt is targeting where real threat is.

During mughal times, another sikh had to vouch for u before u were allowed amrit and allowed into a jatha. And a sikh new that if someone they brought in betrayed the panth, it was on them. So caution was paramount. Bhai veer singh writes about codes and secret meetings at akal takhat.

The sikh panth is too big and spread out to work like that now but what we can do is

1) totally abhor violence against another sikh. No matter the cause. And if someone does a crime worthy of punishment or death penalty such as beadbi etc, first the whole sikh panth must excommunicate him or her. Therefore any person who incites hatred or violence esp toward another sikh, will be revealed as an agent.

But for this to work we must get thus memo out to the whole sikh community:

2) violence is not a justifiable means to use anymore. Esp not to solve ideological battles. Fight ideas with ideas, words with words. Also if someone want to use violence we can say only for certain crimes and specify them. Or at least 5 singhs hav to agree and do ardaas and get hukamnama to use violence.

This mean that all sikhs should agree that

3) we will no longer try to get justice for 84 by killing the prepretators. Brar is so old, hes gonna die anyway. All it does is gives us bad publicity and puts our youth in jail. Tytler is living proof that indian govt is evil and supports the genocide masterminds. Lets let the indian gov deal with this visible reminder, taint and embarrasment. Lets keep using the court and press to denounce Tytler and remind all 84 isnt past.

Also no more using violence to kill radhasoamis, other sects, anti dasam granth ppl.

We fight these ppl through other more effective means. And i think sikh panth is strong enough to withstand their false attacks as long as we stop providing them with fuel. And it would be amazing if sikhs could practice the principle of free speech. That sikhs were allowed to express their doubts, dissident opinions, and even blashepemous content. Thus would allow other sikhs to teach them, argue with them, laugh at their absurd ideas, and hopefully even correct them.

I mean sikhs were such a diverse group. From sevapanthis who abhor violence to nirmale who learnt at kaanshi to udasis who were similar to saadhus to nihangs to sikligars to shopkeeper sikh to farmer and nobles in court

There was never the amount of discord we have now.  Even the 1900s when there was so many sikh jathas emerging, sikhs turning athiests, communist. There was not this amount of division. Part of it does have to do with infiltration. And part cuz sikhs r ready to fight and jump at the slightest provacation. We must stop that

Would do you guys think? 

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