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On 22/03/2018 at 2:01 PM, genie said:

Yet now I'm beginning to think he was an intelligence asset the for the american CIA/British MI6 or of the Indian R&AW itself.

Speak to the old time ISYF Singh's from Southall that knew him and they will say he was as bent (not in the Gay sense) as a flexi curve. 

Edited by InderjitS

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With all the respect of harnam dhumma his past seva-shaheedi gurdwara, nirmale reintegration puratan maryada, his assassination attempt on dhandrianwale (which i am not fan of) sealed it from me. I am not going to call him agent or anything but that incident sure as hell gave boast to missionary and atheist, communism ideology play good in hands of raw.

Rule of thumb to tranquilize ideology/missionary/atheism/anything you don't like is to ignore collectively as it falls in abyss eventually as ego cannot thrive on ignore or silence. EGO growth in terms of following only thrives on resistance, especially violent resistance ones. Just look at how radhaswami cult is flourishing- if ignore like puratan sants have done and nudge here and there its ok but as soon one makes a threat, takes on their guru boom it flourishes ten fold.

If one must not ignore or let it fall in silence, then debate academically- pigeon hole into dhandrianwale parchar bring science, meditation, devotion results- divide, read chankaya

One of my uncle from india posted this on my whatsapp:

"ਜੇਕਰ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਨੂੰ ਬਲ (ਤਾਕਤ) ਨਾਲ ਹਰਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਸਮਰੱਥਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ 'ਚ ਪਾ ਦਿਓ, ਉਸਦੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਅੱਧੀ ਰਹਿ ਜਾਵੇਗੀ"- ਚਾਣਕਿਆ

ਜਦ ਆਪਣੀ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ ਛੋਟੀ-ਵੱਡੀ ਰਹਿਰਾਸ, ਤਿੰਨ-ਪੰਜ ਬਾਣੀਆਂ, ਕੈਲੰਡਰਾਂ ਦਰਮਿਆਨ ਭਿੜਦੇ ਦੇਖਦਾੇ ਹਾਂ ਤਾ ਮਹਿਸੂਸ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਚਾਣਕਿਆ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਕਥਨ ਬਕਾਇਦਾ ਫਾਰਮੂਲੇ ਵਜੋਂ ਸਾਡੇ 'ਤੇ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਹ ਹੱਲਾ ਸਮਝਣ ਤੋਂ ਅਸਮਰੱਥ ਹਾਂ।

 

Books how human psychology works and ego actions-

Power of now and new earth by echkhart tolle.

 

 

 

Edited by N30S1NGH

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On 3/22/2018 at 4:43 PM, InderjitS said:

Speak to the old time ISYF Singh's from Southall that knew him and they will say he was as bent (not in the Gay sense) as a flexi curve. 

what do they say bro?

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On 2018-03-20 at 1:58 PM, N30S1NGH said:

Vahiguru, shahid bhai gurbakash singh ji, i am sure he will come back as gursikh again to finish the seva he was assigned to do by guru maharaj.

This post is directed at those who think in this mentality.  When a Sikh takes his life by jumping, he's a shaheed.  But a Sikh who stands for Khalsa Panth Maryada is going against Sikh teachings according to you. Such lies will never stand to be true. 

From bhai Gurbaksh Singh voice as he stands on top of the water tank, he is not in the right state of mind.  He's very upset, feels betrayed, and is feeling very desperate to do something.  In such a state of panic he jumped.  Now who's going to take care of his family? Will those who don't want the Khalsa Panth to defend victims with the sword, stand up and take care of bhai Gurbaksh Singh family?  Not in a million years will these guys help bhai sahib family.  But they want brownie points by saying he is shaheed, so their forum reputation stays high.  Selfish people should never be listened too.  

I don't want any brother to take his life in this manner for the Khalsa Panth.  This is not what Guru Gobind Singh ji has taught us.  Satguru says stand up and speak as Bhai Sahib was doing. If someone attacks then defend.  If someone hurts another then provide justice to the victim.  

There are people out their and on this forum who want Sikhs to just off themselves.  They feel happy when Sikhs off themselves and disguise it by calling him shaheed. Don't ever fall for their psychopathic agenda.  

 

 

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14 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

This post is directed at those who think in this mentality.  When a Sikh takes his life by jumping, he's a shaheed.  But a Sikh who stands for Khalsa Panth Maryada is going against Sikh teachings according to you. Such lies will never stand to be true. 

From bhai Gurbaksh Singh voice as he stands on top of the water tank, he is not in the right state of mind.  He's very upset, feels betrayed, and is feeling very desperate to do something.  In such a state of panic he jumped.  Now who's going to take care of his family? Will those who don't want the Khalsa Panth to defend victims with the sword, stand up and take care of bhai Gurbaksh Singh family?  Not in a million years will these guys help bhai sahib family.  But they want brownie points by saying he is shaheed, so their forum reputation stays high.  Selfish people should never be listened too.  

I don't want any brother to take his life in this manner for the Khalsa Panth.  This is not what Guru Gobind Singh ji has taught us.  Satguru says stand up and speak as Bhai Sahib was doing. If someone attacks then defend.  If someone hurts another then provide justice to the victim.  

There are people out their and on this forum who want Sikhs to just off themselves.  They feel happy when Sikhs off themselves and disguise it by calling him shaheed. Don't ever fall for their psychopathic agenda.  

 

 

Whats the issue, off course circumstances surrounding bhai gurbakash singh suicide turned shaheedi is unfortunate. It should have been avoided, panth failed bhai gurbakash singh collectively having him to go such brink. In fact, based on avtar singh posted on facebook- he was absolutely bullied, haunted, mocked by so called sikhs there months over months to have him go such a brink. He is definitely an shaheed despite of his mental anguish and horrible things he went through mentally. 

Just to clarify re shahedi label-

First of all, in my post i wasn't encouraging anyone taking their own lives or committing suicide -be shaheed

Off course i consider someones giving up their live-leading arm resistance/defending the dharam/protecting innocent as shaheed as well, including consider singhs as shahids in the past who have taken cyanide and committed suicide aovid being captured or tortured by GOI , along with the case above. I have held the same position in the past, remember the discussion of buddhist monk being shahid sitting in meditation while being self immolated.?. I consider that is shahedi as well.

Anyway, going back to that post was my way of showing respect to bhai gurbaksh singh ji by calling him shaheed.

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On 22/03/2018 at 2:01 PM, genie said:

I need to sort myself out? lol your the one bad mouthing fellow members and issuing personal slurs.... do you really want to be placed on quality control? you know the rules I suggest you moderate your language and behave like a sikh.

 

Yes. You need to sort yourself out. You don't talk like you have any idea of their sacrifice yet you are bad mouthing them and issuing personal slurs. Dr Chauhan has always stood up for Khalistan even when 1% of the Sikhs would not support, yet when it came to became a huge issue for Sikhs (post 84) you think he became an agent?

 

On 22/03/2018 at 2:01 PM, genie said:

Dhumma I was never comfortable with being elected head of DDT

 

And here you go again showing how ignorant you are. Since when was head of taksal ever elected. He was selected but how would you know? Try doing a little more research but you sit down to type.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 4:43 PM, InderjitS said:

Speak to the old time ISYF Singh's from Southall that knew him and they will say he was as bent (not in the Gay sense) as a flexi curve. 

 

The same singhs from southall who had a war fund of some £50,000 that went missing ?

 

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On 22/03/2018 at 8:21 AM, Prokharkoo84 said:

Chauhan - from what i know, yeah he was the pioneer of khalistan, i remember someone telling me that chauhan was handing out flyers for khalistan way back in the early 70s? also i think he published an advert in the new york times for khalistan and set up an embassy in ecuador? However, didnt he sell out when he returned to punjab? please answer because this is something i dont know the full deal on.

 

How did returning to Panjab make Chauhan a sellout? If he went there and said "I have given up the fight for Khalistan" then you would be right, but even in India where he was at risk, he never till the day he died gave up the fight for Khalistan. While he was in India he did exhort the message of Khalistan. The Indian govt treid to put cases on him but he wasn't phased. The indians never wanted Chauhan to come back to india but he had a UN passport as the indians revoked his indian passport a long time ago. They refused his entry for many years before he took up his case with the UN and won.

 

People like genie, I dont know who's been feeding them <banned word filter activated> but well done for asking for info rather than just running off at the backside. genie could definitely learn something from you prokharku.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 8:21 AM, Prokharkoo84 said:

Dhumma - i agree he does good e.g. the shaheedi yaadgar etc, but obvs he aint no sant jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindrawale and we all know he is linked up to the akalis. izar alam killed a lot of youth and im assuming a lot of those youth were linked to taksal, so how can dhumma justify sitting next to him?

 

 

Baba Harnam Singh made himself a target when he supported badal but I would welcome such an alliance for a hundred lifetimes if it kept the likes of dhunda panthpreet and the other missionary scum out of as many gurdwaras as possible.

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8 hours ago, chatanga said:

 

How did returning to Panjab make Chauhan a sellout? If he went there and said "I have given up the fight for Khalistan" then you would be right, but even in India where he was at risk, he never till the day he died gave up the fight for Khalistan. While he was in India he did exhort the message of Khalistan. The Indian govt treid to put cases on him but he wasn't phased. The indians never wanted Chauhan to come back to india but he had a UN passport as the indians revoked his indian passport a long time ago. They refused his entry for many years before he took up his case with the UN and won.

 

People like genie, I dont know who's been feeding them <banned word filter activated> but well done for asking for info rather than just running off at the backside. genie could definitely learn something from you prokharku.

 

 

 

Baba Harnam Singh made himself a target when he supported badal but I would welcome such an alliance for a hundred lifetimes if it kept the likes of dhunda panthpreet and the other missionary scum out of as many gurdwaras as possible.

Bro you have always supported Bhai Rode, Dr Chauhan etc, which I am not saying is right or wrong, there are 2 sides, I'm on neither. But who do you think was a sellout then? What do you think of Dr Sohan Singh? Also, is it true Jathedaar Kaunke was actually in support of Pooran Azadi? 

 

Also, general question for anyone here, I've read from one source only, that Shaheed Chaheru was behind the death Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Sakhira? As the latter was more so for autonomy than Khalistan. 

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon

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1 hour ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Bro you have always supported Bhai Rode, Dr Chauhan etc, which I am not saying is right or wrong, there are 2 sides, I'm on neither. But who do you think was a sellout then? What do you think of Dr Sohan Singh? Also, is it true Jathedaar Kaunke was actually in support of Pooran Azadi? 

 

Also, general question for anyone here, I've read from one source only, that Shaheed Chaheru was behind the death Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Sakhira? As the latter was more so for autonomy than Khalistan. 

both you brothers are probs the main knowledge banks on the movement in this forum and whether i agree or not with either of you based on my knowledge, it is important we have these discussions so that reality of the movement can be shared and upcoming generations can learn from it. regards to you chatanga, yeah you do seem pro dhumma and chauhan, i get the whole dhumma lot are keeping the missionaries at bay and your explanation for chauhan going back to punjab. however, i am firm beleiver of there not being smoke without a fire and obvs there must be something behind the views on chauhan?

Khoon - bro i have never heard the chaheru popping sakira theory off, however i have heard that sakira and baba manochahal had a bust up and came close to having it out. 

Kaunke wanting pooran azaadi thats another new one to me, i actually got family members who knew him well but have never mentioned that. 

one thing iv learnt, most kharkoos/shaheeds reality is a lot different that the jeevaniya we read and there was lot of in fighting that led to the collapse. face it, most of these were young lads, in a very f*cked up situation in punjab, led by sell outs like sohan sio and who quite clearly had personal issues with each other aswell. it was this same josh that shook the whole of india, but the same josh that led to their downfall.

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11 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Bro you have always supported Bhai Rode, Dr Chauhan etc, which I am not saying is right or wrong, there are 2 sides, I'm on neither. But who do you think was a sellout then? What do you think of Dr Sohan Singh? Also, is it true Jathedaar Kaunke was actually in support of Pooran Azadi?

 

Bro, I dont view most of these Kharkhus, alive or dead as sellouts. They gave immense sacrifices for the Panths wellbeing, and gave their lives, livelihoods, had their families and relatives beaten, raped and/or killed, had their properties destroyed and spent decades in jail.

Sure, the Kharkhus made mistakes, but they were there to make them, I wasn't and I bet that genie wasn't either. The most we could ever do was give money and some time, an hour here or there on a Sunday to visit any programes at Gurdwaras in support.

 

The people who sold out were those like Santokh Kala, HArminder Gill etc.

 

Dr Sohan Singh gave up a very luxurious life to head the movement. I don't think he was a traitor for one minute.

 

Where the moevement went wrong was the 1992 elections, and that was down to one man Daljit Singh Bittu who forced the boycott at the point of a gun. Dr Sohan Singh and the others wanted to contest the elections.

 

The main other point where they went wrong IMHO  was the heinous murder of Shaheed Bhai Harminder Singh Sandhu. The guy was genius through and through but Bittu and Panthic Committee killed him in his own house.

 

 

11 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Also, general question for anyone here, I've read from one source only, that Shaheed Chaheru was behind the death Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Sakhira? As the latter was more so for autonomy than Khalistan. 

 

First time I've heard this.

 

9 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

both you brothers are probs the main knowledge banks on the movement in this forum and whether i agree or not with either of you based on my knowledge, it is important we have these discussions so that reality of the movement can be shared and upcoming generations can learn from it. regards to you chatanga, yeah you do seem pro dhumma and chauhan, i get the whole dhumma lot are keeping the missionaries at bay and your explanation for chauhan going back to punjab. however, i am firm beleiver of there not being smoke without a fire and obvs there must be something behind the views on chauhan?

 

I am pro anyone who fought for and made sacrifices for Khalistan and the well-being of the Panth. There was no smoke with Chauhan out of the ordinary. Only jealous people said he was an agent, but jealous people made the same allegation against Sant Jarnail Singh.

 

9 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

one thing iv learnt, most kharkoos/shaheeds reality is a lot different that the jeevaniya we read and there was lot of in fighting that led to the collapse. face it, most of these were young lads, in a very f*cked up situation in punjab, led by sell outs like sohan sio and who quite clearly had personal issues with each other aswell. it was this same josh that shook the whole of india, but the same josh that led to their downfall.

 

Sohan Singh wasn't a sellout. He realised that the movement had ended from 2 points. One the disaster of the election boycott in 92. Two, the indian state proved too strong in terms of tactics and manpower/resources/brutality.

 

Zafferwal was also abandoned by the ISI after he refused to order his men to target HIndus under the ISI wishes. They stopped giving him arms, put him under house arrest and even Zaffarwal himself requested to be sent back to India than die in Pakistan. The ISI sent him to Switzerland even though he had to pay for it himself. Zaffarwal recognised that the ISI/Pakistan were using the Sikh movement to score against India. Perhaps they thought hey could emulate their success in Afghanistan.

 

The only thing with Zaffarwal is that he gave up the cause actively after his return to India, although I believe in his heart he still harbours support and dedication for the movement. But his return to India lost him a lot of support (and respect by many) and now he is just content to practice his homeopathy.

 

One thing I would advise you both to do, is look for books by Baljit Singh. He was in the AISSF and wrote many books in Panjabi on the movement. You can get them from Amritsar.

 

Edited by chatanga

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2 hours ago, chatanga said:

 

Bro, I dont view most of these Kharkhus, alive or dead as sellouts. They gave immense sacrifices for the Panths wellbeing, and gave their lives, livelihoods, had their families and relatives beaten, raped and/or killed, had their properties destroyed and spent decades in jail.

Sure, the Kharkhus made mistakes, but they were there to make them, I wasn't and I bet that genie wasn't either. The most we could ever do was give money and some time, an hour here or there on a Sunday to visit any programes at Gurdwaras in support.

 

The people who sold out were those like Santokh Kala, HArminder Gill etc.

 

Dr Sohan Singh gave up a very luxurious life to head the movement. I don't think he was a traitor for one minute.

 

Where the moevement went wrong was the 1992 elections, and that was down to one man Daljit Singh Bittu who forced the boycott at the point of a gun. Dr Sohan Singh and the others wanted to contest the elections.

 

The main other point where they went wrong IMHO  was the heinous murder of Shaheed Bhai Harminder Singh Sandhu. The guy was genius through and through but Bittu and Panthic Committee killed him in his own house.

 

 

 

First time I've heard this.

 

 

I am pro anyone who fought for and made sacrifices for Khalistan and the well-being of the Panth. There was no smoke with Chauhan out of the ordinary. Only jealous people said he was an agent, but jealous people made the same allegation against Sant Jarnail Singh.

 

 

Sohan Singh wasn't a sellout. He realised that the movement had ended from 2 points. One the disaster of the election boycott in 92. Two, the indian state proved too strong in terms of tactics and manpower/resources/brutality.

 

Zafferwal was also abandoned by the ISI after he refused to order his men to target HIndus under the ISI wishes. They stopped giving him arms, put him under house arrest and even Zaffarwal himself requested to be sent back to India than die in Pakistan. The ISI sent him to Switzerland even though he had to pay for it himself. Zaffarwal recognised that the ISI/Pakistan were using the Sikh movement to score against India. Perhaps they thought hey could emulate their success in Afghanistan.

 

The only thing with Zaffarwal is that he gave up the cause actively after his return to India, although I believe in his heart he still harbours support and dedication for the movement. But his return to India lost him a lot of support (and respect by many) and now he is just content to practice his homeopathy.

 

One thing I would advise you both to do, is look for books by Baljit Singh. He was in the AISSF and wrote many books in Panjabi on the movement. You can get them from Amritsar.

 

Well said my brother, you have made me see things differently. I agree that even those who been labelled sell outs did more and gave more than I ever could. 

 

Zaffarwal - I agree 100%. He was stuck in Switzerland on his ones and was pretty much f#cked. Of course he got the sangarsh in his heart, he's beem around a lot of the morcheh in the last few years.

 

Sohan - you say bittu did the damage in 92, but wasn't bittu sohans chamcha? Also if I remeber correctly it was bittu who had labh Singh switch on sadhu? But them I have heard bittu did labh Singh over as well? 

 

Santokh kala - ex btfk who switched  I think and Gill Is in Congress now? What about manjit aka bhai Amrik singhs brother? He was apparently bought for a maruti car and two hotels? 

 

Does anyone know what happened to 'vanchiri' aka the one who had baba Manochahal done? 

 

One thing brother, each guy paid a massive price, even bittu, I'm neither a fan or dislike him, but he's given a lot for the sangarsh 

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On 2018-03-29 at 12:16 AM, Prokharkoo84 said:

both you brothers are probs the main knowledge banks on the movement in this forum and whether i agree or not with either of you based on my knowledge, it is important we have these discussions so that reality of the movement can be shared and upcoming generations can learn from it. regards to you chatanga, yeah you do seem pro dhumma and chauhan, i get the whole dhumma lot are keeping the missionaries at bay and your explanation for chauhan going back to punjab. however, i am firm beleiver of there not being smoke without a fire and obvs there must be something behind the views on chauhan?

Khoon - bro i have never heard the chaheru popping sakira theory off, however i have heard that sakira and baba manochahal had a bust up and came close to having it out. 

Kaunke wanting pooran azaadi thats another new one to me, i actually got family members who knew him well but have never mentioned that. 

one thing iv learnt, most kharkoos/shaheeds reality is a lot different that the jeevaniya we read and there was lot of in fighting that led to the collapse. face it, most of these were young lads, in a very f*cked up situation in punjab, led by sell outs like sohan sio and who quite clearly had personal issues with each other aswell. it was this same josh that shook the whole of india, but the same josh that led to their downfall.

I know bits here and there, just mostly from books or interviews, but I'd say Chatanga is much much more knowledgeable. But, yes, it was arguably the most significant Sikh movement probably since Singh Sabha, we have a lot to learn from it. Particularly organization/unity, and how to play the game of intelligence/rajneeti groups. They ran circles around most Sikhs mentally, aside from a few leaders. I agree that it was mostly josh they fought, most the kharkus were just college age students, becoming revolutionaries over night basically by force. 

 

The conflict between manochahal and Sakira remained verbal? What was it over? And ask your acquaintance about Jathedaar Kaunke, I will try to dig up the source again. 

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On 2018-03-29 at 9:43 AM, chatanga said:

 

Bro, I dont view most of these Kharkhus, alive or dead as sellouts. They gave immense sacrifices for the Panths wellbeing, and gave their lives, livelihoods, had their families and relatives beaten, raped and/or killed, had their properties destroyed and spent decades in jail.

Sure, the Kharkhus made mistakes, but they were there to make them, I wasn't and I bet that genie wasn't either. The most we could ever do was give money and some time, an hour here or there on a Sunday to visit any programes at Gurdwaras in support.

 

The people who sold out were those like Santokh Kala, HArminder Gill etc.

 

Dr Sohan Singh gave up a very luxurious life to head the movement. I don't think he was a traitor for one minute.

 

Where the moevement went wrong was the 1992 elections, and that was down to one man Daljit Singh Bittu who forced the boycott at the point of a gun. Dr Sohan Singh and the others wanted to contest the elections.

 

The main other point where they went wrong IMHO  was the heinous murder of Shaheed Bhai Harminder Singh Sandhu. The guy was genius through and through but Bittu and Panthic Committee killed him in his own house.

 

 

 

First time I've heard this.

 

 

I am pro anyone who fought for and made sacrifices for Khalistan and the well-being of the Panth. There was no smoke with Chauhan out of the ordinary. Only jealous people said he was an agent, but jealous people made the same allegation against Sant Jarnail Singh.

 

 

Sohan Singh wasn't a sellout. He realised that the movement had ended from 2 points. One the disaster of the election boycott in 92. Two, the indian state proved too strong in terms of tactics and manpower/resources/brutality.

 

Zafferwal was also abandoned by the ISI after he refused to order his men to target HIndus under the ISI wishes. They stopped giving him arms, put him under house arrest and even Zaffarwal himself requested to be sent back to India than die in Pakistan. The ISI sent him to Switzerland even though he had to pay for it himself. Zaffarwal recognised that the ISI/Pakistan were using the Sikh movement to score against India. Perhaps they thought hey could emulate their success in Afghanistan.

 

The only thing with Zaffarwal is that he gave up the cause actively after his return to India, although I believe in his heart he still harbours support and dedication for the movement. But his return to India lost him a lot of support (and respect by many) and now he is just content to practice his homeopathy.

 

One thing I would advise you both to do, is look for books by Baljit Singh. He was in the AISSF and wrote many books in Panjabi on the movement. You can get them from Amritsar.

 

I will look into the books by Baljit Singh, thank you. And I agree with you, I wouldn't call someone a survivor because they survived. There are in fact lots of lesser known Singh's still living in the villages of Punjab, who didn't turn cats etc. In general, everything you said is either true or I agree with it. 

 

Your ISI and Zaffarwal point is good though. Most leaders at that point were willing to kill Hindus. Zaffarwal was probably the only one in Pakistan at that point was against it. Rest of the  Pakistan based Singh's were busy towing the line or fighting each other.

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Agree with you 100% bro, a lot of the guys were from colleges and got stuck in out of pain of bluestar or due to them being harassed by police/set up by family or friends/or to get badleh for people who they knew who been picked up.

 

Sakeera/Manochahal - from what i know it was getting heated but didnt come to a shoot out. do you know who popped sakheera off? was it praa maru jang?

5 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I will look into the books by Baljit Singh, thank you. And I agree with you, I wouldn't call someone a survivor because they survived. There are in fact lots of lesser known Singh's still living in the villages of Punjab, who didn't turn cats etc. In general, everything you said is either true or I agree with it. 

 

Your ISI and Zaffarwal point is good though. Most leaders at that point were willing to kill Hindus. Zaffarwal was probably the only one in Pakistan at that point was against it. Rest of the  Pakistan based Singh's were busy towing the line or fighting each other.

right 100% again, another old school kharkoo called rana was picked up last month aswell.

when you say leaders were ready to pop hindus off - who are you referring to and who was kicking off with each other? I know panjwar was very hot headed while without being disrespectful, not heard anything to clever about vadhawa singh.

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    • you are misunderstanding what I am saying SGPC changed the wording like Ram Rai to suit their agenda ...I never maligned mahapurakhs and have total respect for all those you mentioned. It wasn't about positioning which is also important  but the actual Gurbani
    • oh is it.   they wanted around £200 from me about a decade ago, prices must have gone up.   why would naamdharis learn from them when they can learn from naamdhari ustads??
    • loll I really want to wear a chola. I also hate wearing ties and blazers. I try and wear mini hazooria often. Still learning my dumalla, my turban is still anglicised. my sangat and relatives is punjabis, but I would say if they actually followed more punjabi culture it wouldn't harm following sikhi so much as it seems. it's the drunk and uneducated culture that's the harmful stuff, the village <banned word filter activated> mentality.
    •  Today what connects us is not Sikhi but nagar kirtans, akhand paths, turban tieing competitions kabaddi etc..  As you can see there is nothing of substance to hold us together.  These are mostly festivals, no one ones to teach Sikh doctrines.
    • I'm glad one of the Sikh sites have a simran/meditation section because its the core of the dharm.  We need one on this forum, if we don't were going to get further and further from Naam then the only thing we will have is more and more arguments because are mind is not under control   ਜਿਨੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਸੇ ਬਹਣਿ ਨ ਮਿਲਨੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥ 
      जिनी गुरमुखि नामु न चेतिओ से बहणि न मिलनी पासि ॥ 
      Jinī gurmukẖ nām na cẖeṯi▫o se bahaṇ na milnī pās. 
      Those who do not meditate on the Lord, as Gurmukh, are not permitted to sit near the Lord. 
        ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਬਹੁ ਅਤਿ ਘਣਾ ਪੁਤੁ ਕਲਤੁ ਨ ਸਾਥਿ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਸਿ ॥ 
      दुखु लागा बहु अति घणा पुतु कलतु न साथि कोई जासि ॥ 
      Ḏukẖ lāgā baho aṯ gẖaṇā puṯ kalaṯ na sāth ko▫ī jās. 
      They suffer the most horrible pain and suffering, and neither their sons nor their wives go along with them. 
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