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"When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand" - Guru Gobind Singh Ji: A Response to those who Advocate Violence


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16 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

-  Almost assassinated leader/preacher/journalist, gains more credibility

Very good point. Sant Dhadrianwale's star has gone up, not down after his attempted assassination, a huge loss for anyone who opposes his current agenda (such as I).

By the way, Tara Singh Hayer was editor of the Indo-Canadian Times, not Des-Pardes, AFAIK.

20 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

So wake up from village mentality.

After an otherwise commendable post, you ruin it with this. After about 5000 posts banging on about the universality of Ik Onkar, permeating all, non-dualism, and so forth, you are unable to resist a cheap shot dividing us/humanity?

About half of countries like the US is rural. Exactly half of Punjab is rural/half is urban.

What makes you think that village=bad, city=good?

Please don't say "Oh, I don't mean village as in rural, I meant it as in idi-ot". First of all, if you meant id-iot, then say that.

Second, do you think it would be acceptable to say "So wake up from a Negro mentality" or "So wake up from a Choora mentality"? If not, why do you think it is acceptable to say "village mentality"?

Perhaps you should reread your past posts sanctimoniously lecturing everybody about non-dualism.

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1 hour ago, N30S1NGH said:

I was anticipating this argument, glad you bought it up.. here is good research thread on this. Whilst it maintains authenticity of this important historical event- it explores and provides much needed context to it for example- monarch times vs current democratic times where church and state are seperate and currently there are laws to deal with this-

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16506-masand-story-is-been-used-as-precedence-for-panthic-policiing/

Great thread, thanks for posting this.

Salient points from this thread: The masands were punished not merely for stealing and such, but for such acts as rape and attacks on Guru Sahib. Secondly, masands who committed forgivable crimes were forgiven and told to sin no more. Finally, good masands were commended.

So the example of masands in no way provides precedent for killing mere heretics.

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1 minute ago, BhForce said:

After an otherwise commendable post, you ruin it with this. After about 5000 posts banging on about the universality of Ik Onkar, permeating all, non-dualism, and so forth, you are unable to resist a cheap shot dividing us/humanity?

About half of countries like the US is rural. Exactly half of Punjab is rural/half is urban.

What makes you think that village=bad, city=good?

Please don't say "Oh, I don't mean village as in rural, I meant it as in idi-ot". First of all, if you meant id-iot, then say that.

Second, do you think it would be acceptable to say "So wake up from a Negro mentality" or "So wake up from a Choora mentality"? If not, why do you think it is acceptable to say "village mentality"?

Perhaps you should reread your past posts sanctimoniously lecturing everybody about non-dualism.

In absolute world -everything is fine and dandy and relative world, sometimes people need jolt. I love my village in punjab so not anti village-especially gurbani hymns during amrit vela and dhud wali cha and poranthai. so i apologize- but it abhoring hard work done by media savvvy sikhs and sikhs mps gets ruined by these idiots.

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Just now, N30S1NGH said:

In absolute world -everything is fine and dandy and relative world, sometimes people need jolt. I love my village in punjab so not anti village-especially gurbani hymns during amrit vela and dhud wali cha and poranthai. so i apologize- but it abhoring hard work done by media savvvy sikhs and sikhs mps gets ruined by these idiots.

OK, bro. If you want to call them idiots, that's fine by me. In fact I would use even harsher language against Baljeet Singh of New York. At exactly the time the Canadian media is working overtime to portray us as extremists and terrorists, he goes and shoots up some non-violent fool of a granthi, thereby doing the anti-Sikh media's work for it.

I dread the media coverage that is going to follow his trial, and what sort of defense he is going to mount. If he says "I was defending my religion", non-Sikhs will naturally want to learn more about this religion in their midst which encourages its followers to kill those who stray from the path, thereby creating new opponents of Sikhs.

Great job, Baljeet Singh! Not.

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From my understanding of what I learn't over the years. I have concluded revenge attacks has been a tool used as per Sikh history and traditions.

But revenge is not allowed to be used against innocent civilians and fellow Sikhs only against the non-sikh aggressor guilty parties during times of war or extreme persecution. Guru Ji in his 52 commandments to the Khalsa makes it explicit that his Sikh believers must not attack fellow Sikhs. Obviously you can defend yourself if your under attack but you must not incite any physical attacks on another Sikh.

When Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji drew the sword and waged war against the muslim mughuls it was after years of persecution was tolerated, anti-sikh religious slurs were tolerate, discrimination was tolerated, even diplomacy and alliances with some mughul princes was made and tried. But when it all came to nil and the community still faced Islamist persecution and extermination then as a last resort the war was aged offensive and defence against the alleged powerful and mighty mughuls, afghans and others who tried the same. Sikhs soon showed them the power lay with the many shift sparrows not the few fat hawks.

When we compare the patience and tolerance of Guru Ji and his Sikhs of the past versus how democratic western nation governments even today wage war for revenge or on false pretexts for economic, geo-political opportunism. Then we can realise the greatness of our Guru's and teachings of peace, co-existence, patience and tolerance until the point where our life and entire religion is at risk and we must wage war we are compelled to wage war as a means of survival .

In modern day contemporary sikh history and politics that instance came quite recently in 1947 during split up of punjab and 1984 when the Indian state was determined to wipe out thousands of entire innocent Sikh civilian youths and their families to allegedly in the guise to fight separatists and keep the integrity of India. Had majority of Sikhs of fighting age men (approx 10 million men) combined their forces and waged war on India then India would not exist today, India would have been be broken up into various nations by now but majority of Sikhs had patience and tolerated the indian state violence in hope that things will get better and a belief that opportunities for a better life can exist in united india than in a separate state.

 

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Good points raised, lets look at the root- we need to read and understand psychology of ego - human conditioning- always looking for sense of security in its little box it lives, if there is sense of insecurity or if it feels threatened on any levels- it will get behind self righteous cause- it will act out of fear do all things of crazy things including violence with all kinds of justification.

Power of now and new earth books by echkart tolle are extremely good read it talks about violence by ego- deconstructs and rips ego conditioning into pieces, ego is main culprit which is cause of violence, killing of innocents in wars and human suffering in the world.

People talk about cocaine rush and forbidding use of drugs which is quite right, but esoteric speaking many mystics, saints have claimed highly mobilized ego on power trip is biggest cocaine rush, its powerful than winning billion dollar lottery, power-ego trips and abuse over others trumps everything, will try justify anything under the sun.

Stay under care of gurbani message, following through teaching, one can't go wrong as gurbani tranquilizes it then destroy its in the gyan of gurbani.

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