Understanding the deeper meaning behind "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false."

[BhForce]

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

From the above quote's and many others we can see that the Vedas came from God himself.

OK.

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

Therefore why would Gurbani criticize the work of God himself.

What? Are you saying that Gurbani doesn't criticize the Vedas? It manifestly does do just that.

Didn't you read the big post above of criticism? Also see here. That doesn't count as criticism in your book?

Or if you think that saying the Vedas don't have full knowledge of spiritual matters is criticism, then, OK, it's not criticism.

Sorry to say, brother, but your approach is somewhat simplistic. Granted the Vedas were created within the Hukum of God, but that doesn't mean that they are 100% correct or worthy of being followed.

Aurangzeb was created in God's Hukum, then why did God (in the form of the 8th, 9th, and 10th Gurus) oppose him? Hitler was created in God's Hukum.

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

Also if you look throughout the lives of all the ten Guru's you see that never did they criticize other religions.

Quite to the contrary. That's basically all they did. They criticized "Hinduism" and Islam. Have you read Gurbani? Through that criticism arises Sikhi.

What do you call Guru Nanak ji refusing to wear the janeu, and then going on to criticize it in Gurbani (Asa di Vaar)? What do you call sleeping with your feet towards the Kaaba? What do you call terming the movements of nature as the real Aarti? What do you call Guru Amar Daas ji taking affirmative steps to destroy Varan Ashram Dharam (institutionalized caste system). The Brahmins complained to the Emperor, why would they do that if Guru ji wasn't criticizing their religion? What do you call Guru Gobind Singh ji refusing to create a separate bata of Amrit for "high" castes, like the hill rajas wanted?

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj sent 5 Singh's to Haridwar to study Hinduism thus creating the Nirmala Sect.

Studying something is different from accepting it. Don't slander the Nirmalas by saying they preach Hinduism. They went to study Sanskrit.

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

 Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji went to all primary Islamic institutions they showed supremacy of Gurmat.

Yeah, exactly.

13 hours ago, singh598 said:

In recent times there are many sceptics who are embedded within the Sikh community, online as well as in religions institutions.

Bro, for our purposes, a skeptic is one who doesn't believe in God or Guru Sahib. Skepticism of the Vedas is not bad. Skepticism of the Vedas is written in Gurbani.

[GurjantGnostic]

Sensei always says "never speak poorly of another martial art or martial artist"

Edit: Totally a struggle, especially when everyone else is talkin sh!*

If it's become a martial art, there is, or was, something to it. Definitely it hurts to get hit in the face by anybody, let alone someone trained. And for students practicing whatever art hopefully they learn some good things. 

That being said we practice the art we do for very good reason, the way we see it, it's THE truly cohesive, evolutionary art, gifted by the One, the only one that leads in the direction we want to go. 

That isn't to say other arts are false, but we definitely see and discuss their blind spots, pitfalls and short comings respectfully in private. We'd be fools to dismiss them, and those that train in them entirely though, and we'd be in poor form acting all pompous, and disrespectful all the time .

Yes Sikhi is pure TRUTH, THE way, but maybe we should respect other faiths, and not be smug pompous gits about it?

And respect the truth in them, partial as it may be, off base in however way. 

[Sukhvirk1976]

5 hours ago, BhForce said:

Sorry to say, brother, but your approach is somewhat simplistic. Granted the Vedas were created within the Hukum of God, but that doesn't mean that they are 100% correct or worthy of being followed.

Can you please provide a top ten 

100%=gurbani then what comes second Koran or Vedas? 

5 hours ago, BhForce said:

Hinduism" and Islam. Have you read Gurbani? Through that criticism arises Sikhi.

I believe the criticism has to do with how hollow people's beliefs are and missing the point 

[Akalifauj]

On 08/03/2018 at 5:44 AM, N30S1NGH said:

I never said vedas were satguru, read the analysis if vedas were so worthless, sant ji wouldn't have done comparison- mahavaks from vedas comparison with gurbani mahavaks comparison to show Gurbani has more mahavaks than vedas which has only four. Nevertheless, if sikhs abides in our countless gurbani mahavaks and hindus abides in any of four mahavaks it provides union between atma and paratma by kirpa of shared Sat Guru of all - All pervading eternal consciousness/ awareness.

Also based on those mahavaks and 4000 gyan surti shaloks- expansive commentary -exegesis  108 upanishads were written which talks about turiya avastha.

Sikhs or any group claiming ownership of turiya is like claiming ownership of consciousness which is in everyone, air, water, fire, earth and sky. You should get rid of your manmat ways.

 

 

Quote

I never said vedas were satguru,

 

No one accused you on this thread of saying it is.  I was making clear statements of Sant ji katha so people are not misled. I also said the katha of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji doesn't say the vedas will take a person to satguru.  You failed to acknowledge this fact.

 

 

Quote

read the analysis if vedas were so worthless, sant ji wouldn't have done comparison- mahavaks from vedas comparison with gurbani mahavaks comparison to show Gurbani has more mahavaks than vedas which has only four.

 

I read the katha and also listened to the katha of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji of Ang 154.

 

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

 

ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਹਿਤਕਾਰੁ ॥

 

ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥

 

ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਨੁ ॥

 

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ Ang 154

 

In the audio katha Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji fully agrees that the 4 vedas only speak of 3 states. Sant ji further says only Satguru can merge/ give mukhti as the Gurbani on Ang 154 says. Yet you say the 4 mahavaks of the vedas can unite the soul with God by grace of shared Satguru.  Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji in the written katha or audio katha never says the 4 mahavaks unite the soul to God by grace of shared Satguru.  How can the vedas unite the soul with God when they speak only of visible form and don't know who Satguru is. 

 

 

Quote

 

Nevertheless, if sikhs abides in our countless gurbani mahavaks and hindus abides in any of four mahavaks it provides union between atma and paratma by kirpa of shared Sat Guru of all - All pervading eternal consciousness/ awareness.

 

This is your belief not of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji or Gurbani. Had any part of the vedas been able to deliver anyone to Satguru, Gurbani would not have clearly said the vedas only speak of the 3 states. Gurbani would have said the vedas know the fourth state, turiya avastha. Also Gurbani says only Satguru can unite the soul with God and Gurbani is the Guru. The vedas don't know who is Satguru, so how can they direct anyone to the Guru?  Whether vedas have 4 mahavaks or none, the satguru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is saying the 4 vedas only know of the 3 states.

 

 

 

Also based on those mahavaks and 4000 gyan surti shaloks- expansive commentary -exegesis  108 upanishads were written which talks about turiya avastha.

 

When the vedas, according to Gurbani don't know anything about turiya avastha. Then how can anything based on the vedas know the fourth state, turiya avastha?

 

 

 

Sikhs or any group claiming owne

rship of turiya is like claiming ownership of consciousness which is in everyone, air, water, fire, earth and sky. You should get rid of your manmat ways.

A Sikh has Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as their Guru and this Guru says:

 

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

 

the fourth state, turiya avastha (union with Akal Purakh) is only know by Satguru.

 

So Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is claiming ownership of turiya avastha. 

 

 

[TejS]

On 3/4/2018 at 9:07 AM, superkaur said:

Basically gurbani is talking about and directly to those religious extremists/fanatics of hinduism, islam and christainity went around preaching all others religious books are false and only their religions has the only truth and path to salvation.

Gurbani is saying those who do not understand the meanings and essence of most religious books are false. And most religious books are teaching humanity the same basic principles how to live a civilized human being and do good to each other and how to run a moral society and seek salvation through meditation/prayers.

Gurbani is NOT saying Islam/quran is true so don't refute or counter its arguments. Is NOT saying vedas/hinduism is true so don't refute or counter its arguments. Is NOT saying bible/chrisianity is true so don't refute or counter its arguments.

Because quite clearly in vast majority of instances in SGGS Ji most of rituals and tenets of islam, hinduism and christianity are countered and are refuted.

I think this makes the most sense to me. Wonderful answer.