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Understanding the deeper meaning behind "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false."


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14 minutes ago, luckysingh99 said:

To understand the context, you have to meditate/contemplate this shabad deeply.  Spend some time on it and I would be more than willing to work through it with you so that you end up with a more truthful understanding

Why do you assume that I have not contemplated it when I literally posted a breakdown of it and multiple perspectives. The only reason I ask a question...is because I have failed to realize its meaning on my own. 

I would really appreciate if you actually read the article I linked, because it brings up your arguement about kabir adressing this to someone. 

I would also really appreciate if you would actually properly answer my questions instead of telling me to think about it. 

Thank you. 

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26 minutes ago, luckysingh99 said:

The shabad has to be looked at as a whole with the tuks that proceed. There are a few important messages in the shabad and they don't demean ancient texts written thousands of years ago.

Did you even read the article that I posted? Did you even read anything I wrote in my post? I and the article have already addressed both these issues.

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For those who have doubts on Bhagat Kabeer ji's views here is another bit of Gurbani to elucidate:

(Ang 1158)
Bhagat Kabeer Jee
ਹਮਰਾ ਝਗਰਾ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥
hamraa jhagraa rahaa na ko-oo.
I have no quarrel with anyone.
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਛਾਡੇ ਦੋਊ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
panddit mulaa(n) chhaade do-oo. 1 rahaa-o.
I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests. 1Pause
ਬੁਨਿ ਬੁਨਿ ਆਪ ਆਪੁ ਪਹਿਰਾਵਉ ॥
bun bun aap aap pehiraavau.
I weave and weave, and wear what I weave.
ਜਹ ਨਹੀ ਆਪੁ ਤਹਾ ਹੋਇ ਗਾਵਉ ॥੨॥
jeh nehee aap tehaa ho-e gaavau. 2
Where egotism does not exist, there I sing God's Praises. 2
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੀਆ ॥
panddit mulaa(n) jo likh dee-aa.
Whatever the Pandits and Mullahs have written,
ਛਾਡਿ ਚਲੇ ਹਮ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਲੀਆ ॥੩॥
chhaad chale ham kachhoo na lee-aa. 3
I reject; I do not accept any of it. 3
ਰਿਦੈ ਇਖਲਾਸੁ ਨਿਰਖਿ ਲੇ ਮੀਰਾ ॥
ridai ikhlaas nirakh le meeraa.
My heart is pure, and so I have seen the Lord within.
ਆਪੁ ਖੋਜਿ ਖੋਜਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੪॥੭॥
aap khoj khoj mile kabeeraa. 47
Searching, searching within the self, Kabeer has met the Lord. 47

 

 

Bhagat Kabeer ji states he rejects the teaching of both faiths , what would be the reason ? because they do not give the true path that sikhi is .

Bhagat Naamdev coming from the other view :

(Ang 951)
ਮ: ੧ ॥
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਆਵੈ ॥
hindoo kai ghar hindoo aavai.
The Hindu comes to the house of a Hindu.
ਸੂਤੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਪੜਿ ਗਲਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
soot jane-oo paR gal paavai.
He puts the sacred thread around his neck and reads the scriptures.
ਸੂਤੁ ਪਾਇ ਕਰੇ ਬੁਰਿਆਈ ॥
soot paa-e kare buri-aa-ee.
He puts on the thread, but does evil deeds.
ਨਾਤਾ ਧੋਤਾ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
naataa Dhotaa thaa-e na paa-ee.
His cleansings and washings will not be approved.
ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
musalmaan kare vaddi-aa-ee.
The Muslim glorifies his own faith.
ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰੈ ਕੋ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥
vin gur peerai ko thaa-e na paa-ee.Without the Guru or a spiritual teacher, no one is accepted.
ਰਾਹੁ ਦਸਾਇ ਓਥੈ ਕੋ ਜਾਇ ॥
raahu dasaa-e othai ko jaa-e.They may be shown the way, but only a few go there.
ਕਰਣੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
karNee baajhahu bhisat na paa-e.
Without the karma of good actions, heaven is not attained.
ਜੋਗੀ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਦਸਾਈ ॥
jogee kai ghar jugat dasaa-ee.
The Way of Yoga is demonstrated in the Yogi's monastery.
ਤਿਤੁ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕਨਿ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਪਾਈ ॥
<banned word filter activated> kaaraN kan mundraa paa-ee.
They wear ear-rings to show the way.
ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਪਾਇ ਫਿਰੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥
mundraa paa-e firai sansaar.
Wearing ear-rings, they wander around the world.
ਜਿਥੈ ਕਿਥੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
jithai kithai sirjaNhaar.
The Creator Lord is everywhere.
ਜੇਤੇ ਜੀਅ ਤੇਤੇ ਵਾਟਾਊ ॥
jete jee-a tete vaattaa-oo.
There are as many travellers as there are beings.
ਚੀਰੀ ਆਈ ਢਿਲ ਨ ਕਾਊ ॥
cheeree aa-ee dhil na kaa-oo.
When one's death warrant is issued, there is no delay.
ਏਥੈ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੁ ਜਾਇ ਸਿਞਾਣੈ ॥
eithai jaaNai so jaa-e sinjaaNai.
One who knows the Lord here, realizes Him there as well.
ਹੋਰੁ ਫਕੜੁ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੈ ॥
hor fakaR hindoo musalmaaNai.
Others, whether Hindu or Muslim, are just babbling.
ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਦਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
sabhnaa kaa dar lekhaa ho-e.
Everyone's account is read in the Court of the Lord;
ਕਰਣੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਤਰੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
karNee baajhahu tarai na ko-e.
without the karma of good actions, no one crosses over.
ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
sacho sach vakhaaNai ko-e.
One who speaks the True Name of the True Lord,
ਨਾਨਕ ਅਗੈ ਪੁਛ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
naanak agai puchh na ho-e. 2
O Nanak, is not called to account hereafter. 2

 

sikhi is the only path which gives true liberation:

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਪਾਖੰਡ ਜੋ ਦੀਸਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਜਮੁ ਜਾਗਾਤੀ ਲੂਟੈ ॥
karam Dharam pakhandd jo deesehi tin jam jaagaatee loottai.
The religious rites, rituals and hypocrisies which are seen, are plundered by the Messenger of Death, the ultimate tax collector.
(Ang 747)


ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
bed kateb simrit sabh saasat inH pai-aa mukat na ho-ee.
One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.
ਏਕੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
eik akhar jo gurmukh jaapai tis kee nirmal so-ee. 3
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. 3
ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥
khatree braahmaN sood vais updes chahu varnaa kau saa(n)jhaa.
The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੈ ਉਧਰੈ ਸੋ ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਾਝਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੫੦॥
gurmukh naam japai uDhrai so kal meh ghatt ghatt naanak maajhaa. 4350
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is saved. In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, O Nanak, God is permeating the hearts of each and every being. 4350
(Ang 4350)


Guru Sahib states in this Shabad that the Gurus teachings are to liberate mankind not just Sikhs as stated in the Shabad above, Guru Sahib says be truthful in your own faith but you will not be liberated without meditating on the Lords name Athai Pehar 24 hours.
 

 

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On 04/03/2018 at 11:52 AM, MokhamSingh said:

Khalsa Ji,

bedh kateb cannot be false, since they contain the praise of the creator.

but also:

 

So contemplation, and them in context is important...

CACBA122-5C12-4B4C-87C4-345BA8D1ABA8.jpeg

Gurbani says the vedas are stuck in the 3 gunas and don't know the fourth state, which is only given by Satguru. Reading Jap ji sahib many are praising Akal Purakh but Jap ji sahib says only those who follow Akal Purakh hukam are praising him. Even devil worshippers are praising Akal Purakh.

The key word in the line is 'mat' and Bilja Singh is on to something here.  I wouldn't translate 'mat' as religion. But something more closer to understanding, which would perfectly represent how the vedas and Koran and bible understanding of the fourth state is false/wrong.  These three religious books think they know the fourth state but they actually don't as Gurbani says.

The Shabads that come before this Shabad in question are addressing Muslims and Hindus and their religious practices and their prayers.  Bhagat Kabeer ji is criticising them and rejecting their beliefs.

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