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Hindu decrease in India

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2 hours ago, CharhdiKala said:

What use is there in lying? If anything that will make people have more children if they think their demographics are under threat.

one thing about humans is they often feel insecure if they perceive themselves as being small in number and less likely to take political risks . So if the most historically troublesome population for delhi hukhamat are told we have reduced you to a sixth of your priginal geographic region , and killed approx 3 million of your faithful , we have taken to water rights, taxed you to the hilt whilst removing investment in education and infrastructure, we have been bullying you non-stop since 47 . you have no worthwhile leaders any more , your kids are harassed for wearing kakars and dastars in education and exam centres the law enforcers are sided with us "   most humans will be wary and pessimistic .

 

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If there was decrease in childbirths/facilities you would hear from maternity wards that there are less kids or even from midwives that they are not delivering as many children.

Come on, bro, are you a member of a Midwive's Association? Or a member of a midwives' group on Facebook?

Not to mention that, again, that would only be anecdotal info from a nurse here or there, and not systematic information like a census is. 

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

School places would be empty because of the lack of kids being born. 

They would not be empty. First of all, that would only apply to new school generations coming in about 5 years after birth, not immediately.

Second, Sikhs' TFR is 1.6, not 0. 

Third, look at the chart. It shows a decrease in TFR from 1.95 to 1.58. That's an 18.9% decrease, not a 100% drop.

Fourth, Sikhs are not all of Punjab. They are 58% of Punjab, meaning the 18.9% becomes  an 11% drop.

Again, look at the chart, it shows Hindus having more kids (2.13) than the number of people required to make them (2).

All of which adds up to a mere slight decrease in coming years' school enrollments, if any.

Finally, since you want to mention anecdotal data, you know quite well that our grandparents' generation had 5 or more kids. Do you see people having 5 kids these days? No.

So just anecdotally, the total fertility rate has gone way down. The census merely documents exactly how far down it has gone.

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15 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Come on, bro, are you a member of a Midwive's Association? Or a member of a midwives' group on Facebook?

Not to mention that, again, that would only be anecdotal info from a nurse here or there, and not systematic information like a census is. 

They would not be empty. First of all, that would only apply to new school generations coming in about 5 years after birth, not immediately.

Second, Sikhs' TFR is 1.6, not 0. 

Third, look at the chart. It shows a decrease in TFR from 1.95 to 1.58. That's an 18.9% decrease, not a 100% drop.

Fourth, Sikhs are not all of Punjab. They are 58% of Punjab, meaning the 18.9% becomes  an 11% drop.

Again, look at the chart, it shows Hindus having more kids (2.13) than the number of people required to make them (2).

All of which adds up to a mere slight decrease in coming years' school enrollments, if any.

Finally, since you want to mention anecdotal data, you know quite well that our grandparents' generation had 5 or more kids. Do you see people having 5 kids these days? No.

So just anecdotally, the total fertility rate has gone way down. The census merely documents exactly how far down it has gone.

I do have scepticism. 

Some of what I say may be anecdotal but I believe it does have some validity. 

For example, Italy has a serious demographic crisis and their TFR is like 1.2 or 1.3

That is only 0.3/0.4 less than what is stated as Punjab's .

How much a reduction in TFR causes issues is anyone's guess.

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4 hours ago, BhForce said:

Your anecdote can be countered by my or other posters' anecdotes. Don't mean a thing.

What's there to dispute? It's government figures, via the Census. You must have met with your family and friends while in India, but did you meet with every Punjabi household?

No, but they did.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/fertility-rate-below-replacement-level-for-all-but-hindus-muslims/articleshow/62465588.cms

Master.jpg

As you can see stupid Sikhs are not even having enough children to sustain our population.

We'll be extinct after some decades.

Please nobody bother to say Sikhism will be saved by Sikhs in the West. Between outmarriage, even among our leaders, and low birthrates, we're doomed unless people start making babies!

bro chill , there are now many people coming to sikhi from hindu families especially the bibian who are going the full way to dastar wali amritdhari , and muslims too , have some trust in Guru Pita ji's bachan

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I call bull on the Hindu figure as they are the ones most likely to kill their daughter in utero...it's the same across all the northern hindu dominant states

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13 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I call bull on the Hindu figure as they are the ones most likely to kill their daughter in utero...it's the same across all the northern hindu dominant states

We are just as bad if not worse.

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18 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

one thing about humans is they often feel insecure if they perceive themselves as being small in number and less likely to take political risks . So if the most historically troublesome population for delhi hukhamat are told we have reduced you to a sixth of your priginal geographic region , and killed approx 3 million of your faithful , we have taken to water rights, taxed you to the hilt whilst removing investment in education and infrastructure, we have been bullying you non-stop since 47 . you have no worthwhile leaders any more , your kids are harassed for wearing kakars and dastars in education and exam centres the law enforcers are sided with us "   most humans will be wary and pessimistic 

15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I call bull on the Hindu figure as they are the ones most likely to kill their daughter in utero...it's the same across all the northern hindu dominant states

I agree with JKV. 

Now I will probably get some confused emojis for this.

 

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3 hours ago, CharhdiKala said:

We are just as bad if not worse.

not true at all that's just propaganda see this thread:

 

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54 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

not true at all that's just propaganda see this thread:

 

Interesting.

 

The same thing is happening with the alcoholics and drug reputation of Punjab. I went earlier this year and expected to see junkies and alcoholics everywhere but did not encounter a single one. They tried to say that 70% of Punjabi youth are drug addicts when in fact the truth was that 70% of all drug addicts are youth which is probably true in almost all countries in the world.

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On 3/22/2018 at 6:00 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

Firstly, when I go to Punjab the average Sikh has 2 kids or more.

I don't know how they come to this 1.6 fertility rate figure. I dispute that figure.

Secondly, even though the muslim fertility rate is coming down (and that is due to them educating their women), even educated Muslim families still have higher fertility rates than the rest of the population. 

Thirdly,  I dispute the fact that Ravidassia are "oppressed " . If Dalits behaved like Ravidassia they would open their own temples and not even bother with the cash and prizes they receive from christian missionaries.  If anything Ravidassia are empowered. Nobody has stopped a Ravidassia going to a Gurdwara and do stuff that a normal sangat member does. Where their issue is with the power grab issues that a tiny minority within their community want. 

Like all politics. 

You have written the ground reality.

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1 hour ago, Jonny101 said:

You have written the ground reality.

Thanks.

What I say may not be popular with members of the Sangat but it is important to look at these statistics critically and to interrogate thoroughly. 

Look at the ground realities and see if these statistics are congruent with what is going on.

I think our Panth can be quite naive and take things at face value. 

Our way is to look at things from all angles so we can get a better, fuller picture. 

Only then are we able to ascertain what needs to be done.

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