Hindu decrease in India

[CharhdiKala]

41 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I have to disagree with the 1.6 because that would mean that Punjab has a fertility rate on par with western countries. 

There are also plenty of non NRI people getting married so I do not buy into that. There is no shortage of brides or bridegrooms with all the palaces and hotels telling us otherwise.

What use is there in lying? If anything that will make people have more children if they think their demographics are under threat.

[BhForce]

4 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Ambedkar did not agree with many parts of the constitution and even said he would burn it .

OK, maybe so. But that just goes to show what I was saying: The Hindus imposed the Constitution on India and its minorities. It wasn't imposed on them.

And they themselves used Hindu and religion terminology. It wasn't the evil angrez's.

[jkvlondon]

2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, maybe so. But that just goes to show what I was saying: The Hindus imposed the Constitution on India and its minorities. It wasn't imposed on them.

And they themselves used Hindu and religion terminology. It wasn't the evil angrez's.

you really think INC bigwigs were really hindus , they were zionist puppets thus the allowance for Dalit rights and women's rights in the constitution because it would destablise hindu society (disrupt India's recovery) if you want to see true 'Brahminwad soch' look at what RSS is doing and planning , removal of affirmative action in education and work for dalits , removal of spousal rape as a crime ... they are proposing only Hindus becoming ministers, secret service, army, doctors , lawyers etc

[BhForce]

4 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Firstly, when I go to Punjab the average Sikh has 2 kids or more.

Your anecdote can be countered by my or other posters' anecdotes. Don't mean a thing.

4 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I don't know how they come to this 1.6 fertility rate figure. I dispute that figure.

What's there to dispute? It's government figures, via the Census. You must have met with your family and friends while in India, but did you meet with every Punjabi household?

No, but they did.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/fertility-rate-below-replacement-level-for-all-but-hindus-muslims/articleshow/62465588.cms

As you can see stupid Sikhs are not even having enough children to sustain our population.

We'll be extinct after some decades.

Please nobody bother to say Sikhism will be saved by Sikhs in the West. Between outmarriage, even among our leaders, and low birthrates, we're doomed unless people start making babies!

[Ranjeet01]

1 minute ago, BhForce said:

Your anecdote can be countered by my or other posters' anecdotes. Don't mean a thing.

What's there to dispute? It's government figures, via the Census. You must have met with your family and friends while in India, but did you meet with every Punjabi household?

No, but they did.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/fertility-rate-below-replacement-level-for-all-but-hindus-muslims/articleshow/62465588.cms

As you can see stupid Sikhs are not even having enough children to sustain our population.

We'll be extinct after some decades.

Please nobody bother to say Sikhism will be saved by Sikhs in the West. Between outmarriage, even among our leaders, and low birthrates, we're doomed unless people start making babies!

Not only family, friends, villagers and townsfolk.

No Punjabi family has only 1 child if they can help it. We don't have a one child policy like China, that is why think it is hogwash. 

It is definitely higher than 1.6.

It is just a blanket number. There is no breakdown to how they came that number and how they skew that statistic.

 

[BhForce]

Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

Not only family, friends, villagers and townsfolk.

No Punjabi family has only 1 child if they can help it. We don't have a one child policy like China, that is why think it is hogwash. 

I appreciate that you may have travelled widely when you last visited. 

That is not the same thing as a comprehensive survey. Also, there are plenty of urban families with a 2 bedroom house, one for the couple, one for the single kid.

Why are you fighting this, bro?

Do you think it's a conspiracy by the evil government to mislead the Sikhs? If anything, if that were the case, they would tag the Sikhs as having a big birthrate, thus leading some Sikhs to overcompensate in the other direction by having only one child. As it is, they're alerting us to have more kids.

Census workers come your house, and they ask you a whole bunch of questions, one of which is your children, and another of which is your religion. Here's a copy of the census form. Check it out if you don't believe me.

[Ranjeet01]

15 minutes ago, BhForce said:

I appreciate that you may have travelled widely when you last visited. 

That is not the same thing as a comprehensive survey. Also, there are plenty of urban families with a 2 bedroom house, one for the couple, one for the single kid.

Why are you fighting this, bro?

Do you think it's a conspiracy by the evil government to mislead the Sikhs? If anything, if that were the case, they would tag the Sikhs as having a big birthrate, thus leading some Sikhs to overcompensate in the other direction by having only one child. As it is, they're alerting us to have more kids.

Census workers come your house, and they ask you a whole bunch of questions, one of which is your children, and another of which is your religion. Here's a copy of the census form. Check it out if you don't believe me.

I would believe it if I can see the consequences on the ground with my own eyes that confirm what is on the census. 

The problem is that there are inconsistencies in my opinion. 

If there was decrease in childbirths/facilities you would hear from maternity wards that there are less kids or even from midwives that they are not delivering as many children.

School places would be empty because of the lack of kids being born. 

You would see a decrease in funding in childhood services if there are less children.

There are so many things you would see as a result of below replacement fertility.

[CharhdiKala]

37 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I would believe it if I can see the consequences on the ground with my own eyes that confirm what is on the census. 

The problem is that there are inconsistencies in my opinion. 

If there was decrease in childbirths/facilities you would hear from maternity wards that there are less kids or even from midwives that they are not delivering as many children.

School places would be empty because of the lack of kids being born. 

You would see a decrease in funding in childhood services if there are less children.

There are so many things you would see as a result of below replacement fertility.

Maybe in a first world nation you would hear about these things. But Punjab is a place which is overpopulated in the first place (due to people having 5 kids back in the 1950s and 1960s) plus a lot of babies are born at home and not in hospitals, especially previous generations.

A lot of children simply do not go to school.

Think about this - the literacy rate of Punjab has been going up slowly in the last two decades which means more people are going to school,  in the past there were more Sikh and Hindu Punjabis and less were going to school so there would not have been many school places in the first place, so the number of seats in schools is adequate even if there are less Punjabis because more of them as a percentage are going to school.

Besides this population decrease is slow so it takes a generation or two to see the bigger impact, but it is happening and once it happens it is very hard if not impossible to reverse.

Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus are more materially minded than muslims so once they get a sense of the riches they like to do anything to maintain or enhance that and that is by having less children. Whereas muslims will pump out 3 kids even if they are educated like they are in Kerala where they have a high literacy rate.

2 kids is simply enough.

Don't expect western sikhs to save sikhism. Every gurdwara in the uk is full of and run by old people from India or Kenya. The UK born sikhs go to the gurdwara, have no idea what is being said, bow their head, go downstairs and have langar and then go home. What's going to happen when all of those old guys from India and Kenya die?

[jkvlondon]

2 hours ago, CharhdiKala said:

What use is there in lying? If anything that will make people have more children if they think their demographics are under threat.

one thing about humans is they often feel insecure if they perceive themselves as being small in number and less likely to take political risks . So if the most historically troublesome population for delhi hukhamat are told we have reduced you to a sixth of your priginal geographic region , and killed approx 3 million of your faithful , we have taken to water rights, taxed you to the hilt whilst removing investment in education and infrastructure, we have been bullying you non-stop since 47 . you have no worthwhile leaders any more , your kids are harassed for wearing kakars and dastars in education and exam centres the law enforcers are sided with us "   most humans will be wary and pessimistic .

 

[BhForce]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If there was decrease in childbirths/facilities you would hear from maternity wards that there are less kids or even from midwives that they are not delivering as many children.

Come on, bro, are you a member of a Midwive's Association? Or a member of a midwives' group on Facebook?

Not to mention that, again, that would only be anecdotal info from a nurse here or there, and not systematic information like a census is. 

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

School places would be empty because of the lack of kids being born. 

They would not be empty. First of all, that would only apply to new school generations coming in about 5 years after birth, not immediately.

Second, Sikhs' TFR is 1.6, not 0. 

Third, look at the chart. It shows a decrease in TFR from 1.95 to 1.58. That's an 18.9% decrease, not a 100% drop.

Fourth, Sikhs are not all of Punjab. They are 58% of Punjab, meaning the 18.9% becomes  an 11% drop.

Again, look at the chart, it shows Hindus having more kids (2.13) than the number of people required to make them (2).

All of which adds up to a mere slight decrease in coming years' school enrollments, if any.

Finally, since you want to mention anecdotal data, you know quite well that our grandparents' generation had 5 or more kids. Do you see people having 5 kids these days? No.

So just anecdotally, the total fertility rate has gone way down. The census merely documents exactly how far down it has gone.