Jump to content
TheeTurbanator

Would A Transgender Amritdhari Sikh Be A Singh or Kaur?

Recommended Posts

Considering that ‘Khande di pahul’ was only ever given to men & intended for men only your question is null and void according to maryada of Budha Dal & Hazur Sahib where even women are not given ‘Khande di Pahul’

if you are a kusra and want amrit your better of trying 1 of the ‘modern’ man made jathas with man made maryada.... they give amrit to anyone 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Considering that ‘Khande di pahul’ was only ever given to men & intended for men only your question is null and void according to maryada of Budha Dal & Hazur Sahib where even women are not given ‘Khande di Pahul’

If they are administered kirpan dha Amrit are they considered Khalsa?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/02/2018 at 3:58 PM, InderjitS said:

If they are administered kirpan dha Amrit are they considered Khalsa?

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/02/2018 at 4:11 AM, TheeTurbanator said:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Lets suppose that I am a "transgender Sikh" who was originally biologically male but now identify as a female. Lets assume that I receive "Khand Di Phaul", which is the official initiation into the Khalsa Panth. Would I then call myself a Singh or a Kaur? What does Gurbani or Rehat have to say on this? 

Your question is flawed..... according to puratan granths transgender people are neither male or female... they are a separate  gender in their own right. Your whole question is incorrect because you haven’t even understood what a transgender person is.

Edited by Mahakaal96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

Interesting, why give them kirpan Amrit at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/02/2018 at 1:23 PM, Kira said:

neither. They wouldn't be allowed to take Amrit. 

Who decided that? 😨

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/02/2018 at 8:25 AM, Kira said:

I'm not being harsh lol, im speaking from history.

There's a rigorous process to who gets amrit, in the ye olden days they used to do alot of looking into the person. If the person was a muslim the Nihangs used to make them eat pork to fully to prove they weren't muslim anymore (spies and such). Things like transgenderism (gender dysphoria) would  be and is a mental disorder. Can you imagine a dude, dressing up as a Singhni? We're meant to accept Hukam, not tell people God made a mistake in giving us this gender.

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

On 13/02/2018 at 5:46 PM, Mahakaal96 said:

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

The term khalsa existed before vaisakhi 1699 

 

Awwal Allah noor upaya qudrat keh sub banday

 

aik noor teh sub jag upajiya kaun bhale ko mandhe

(God created light of which all the beings were born

And from this light, the universe; so who is good and who is bad?)

Logaa bharam na bhoolahu maahi

khaliq khalq khalaq meh khaaliq poor rahio sarab tha'ee

(The creation is in the creator

And the creator is in the creation)

 

Maati aik anaik bhaanth ker saaji sajan haray

na kash poch maati kay bhanday na kash poch kunbharay

(The clay is the same, but the designer has fashioned it in various ways

Nothing is wrong with the pot of clay and there is nothing wrong with the potter)

Sub meh sacha aiko soee dis ka keya sub kuch hoyi

hukm pachanay saee ko janay banda kahiyeah soee

(The one true Lord abides in all and by his making everything is made

Whoever realises His command, knows the One Lord and he alone is said to be the Lord's slave)

Allah alkh na jaee lakhiya gur gur dheena meetha

kahay Kabir mair sanka naase sarab Niranjan

(The Lord Allah is invisible and He cannot be seen; the Guru has blessed me with this sweet brown sugar Says Kabir, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the immaculate Lord pervading everywhere)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

Of course you dont know what source its from. 

Prem Sumarag Granth

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Transgender may take Amrit from the Punj Pyare.  Punj Pyare can tell them if they are Singh or kaur.

 

 

On 13/02/2018 at 5:46 PM, Mahakaal96 said:

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

Warroirs:rofl Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs have not fought any war for several decades.  Only reason these guys have not been eliminated by the Indian government is because they are under the control of the Indian government through their leaders selling their souls.   They claim to be Nihangs but the real Nihang Singh left his house to protect Sri Harmandir sahib in a moments notice.  He fought without his head and showed what Nihang are made of.  Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs helped the very government that attacked Sri Akal Takht sahib in 1984 because they were power hungry. Such pathetic people will never be respected. They are playing dress up and nothing more.  

The Khalsa give women khande batte da Amrit.  This is what Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji did and that's what his Singhs, Punj Pyare will do.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

The term khalsa existed before vaisakhi 1699 

 

Awwal Allah noor upaya qudrat keh sub banday

 

aik noor teh sub jag upajiya kaun bhale ko mandhe

(God created light of which all the beings were born

And from this light, the universe; so who is good and who is bad?)

Logaa bharam na bhoolahu maahi

khaliq khalq khalaq meh khaaliq poor rahio sarab tha'ee

(The creation is in the creator

And the creator is in the creation)

 

Maati aik anaik bhaanth ker saaji sajan haray

na kash poch maati kay bhanday na kash poch kunbharay

(The clay is the same, but the designer has fashioned it in various ways

Nothing is wrong with the pot of clay and there is nothing wrong with the potter)

Sub meh sacha aiko soee dis ka keya sub kuch hoyi

hukm pachanay saee ko janay banda kahiyeah soee

(The one true Lord abides in all and by his making everything is made

Whoever realises His command, knows the One Lord and he alone is said to be the Lord's slave)

Allah alkh na jaee lakhiya gur gur dheena meetha

kahay Kabir mair sanka naase sarab Niranjan

(The Lord Allah is invisible and He cannot be seen; the Guru has blessed me with this sweet brown sugar Says Kabir, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the immaculate Lord pervading everywhere)

Yes, it comes from the word khalas.

Terms such as singh, ram, har, Narayan etc all existed prior to Sikhi.... what’s your point? 

The term Khalsa did indeed exist before 1699 but in 1699 Guru mahraj named his fauj Khalsa.... it was previously known as Akal Sena at time of 6th Guru 

The Khalsa fauj rehit does not come from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.... understand who & what Guru Granth Sahib Ji is & you will start to understand why 

Edited by Mahakaal96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Yes, it comes from the word khalas.

Terms such as singh, ram, har, Narayan etc all existed prior to Sikhi.... what’s your point? 

The term Khalsa did indeed exist before 1699 but in 1699 Guru mahraj named his fauj Khalsa.... it was previously known as Akal Sena at time of 6th Guru 

The Khalsa fauj rehit does not come from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.... understand who & what Guru Granth Sahib Ji is & you will start to understand why 

by the logic you are using , a woman can NEVER follow her Gurdev Pita ji's hukam to have pahul (since he only authorised one to replaced charan pahul )and also by that fact not achieve jiwan mukht status since Kirpan di pahul or gurti is not sufficient to make a Singh  and Khande di pahul and poora rehit can only open the path to sach khand ... so you must believe like hindus that women have a fault in them that they have to be reborn as men to achieve the chance ...?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Transgender may take Amrit from the Punj Pyare.  Punj Pyare can tell them if they are Singh or kaur.

 

 

Warroirs:rofl Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs have not fought any war for several decades.  Only reason these guys have not been eliminated by the Indian government is because they are under the control of the Indian government through their leaders selling their souls.   They claim to be Nihangs but the real Nihang Singh left his house to protect Sri Harmandir sahib in a moments notice.  He fought without his head and showed what Nihang are made of.  Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs helped the very government that attacked Sri Akal Takht sahib in 1984 because they were power hungry. Such pathetic people will never be respected. They are playing dress up and nothing more.  

The Khalsa give women khande batte da Amrit.  This is what Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji did and that's what his Singhs, Punj Pyare will do.

So you want Nihangs to fight for people like you.... the same people who in 1920 supported the creation of SGPC & did nothing when the British adopted a shoot on site policy for any Nihang or Singh dressed in blue bana.... you... the same people who stood back and watched as Nihangs were forcefully removed from guru ghars across panjab & even refused langer... you the same sangat who watched Nihangs have to go into exile to Hazur Sahib & leave panjab....... now you people want Nihangs to fight & protect you?! 

Mahraj pulled his fauj back along time ago.... there’s even a Bachan in Bani that backs this up.... but I won’t be telling you what Bani or bachan that is

96 crore fauj WILL fight.... those who know, know when & why...... those who don’t call themselves ‘akalifauj’ but have nothing ‘akali’ about them.

My offer still stands by the way..... I’ll pay for your flights etc to go to Hazur Sahib & run your mouth like you do on here.... and please tell the women in Hazur Sahib that they should be getting khanda da amrit.... I want to see how long it takes before 1 of them slaps the tatti off your face.

 

43 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

by the logic you are using , a woman can NEVER follow her Gurdev Pita ji's hukam to have pahul (since he only authorised one to replaced charan pahul )and also by that fact not achieve jiwan mukht status since Kirpan di pahul or gurti is not sufficient to make a Singh  and Khande di pahul and poora rehit can only open the path to sach khand ... so you must believe like hindus that women have a fault in them that they have to be reborn as men to achieve the chance ...?

We’ve been through this many times..... Hazur Sahib ain’t hard to find.... go there and ask the women what they think then tell them you believe they should take Khande di Pahul..... you will get all the answers you need. Sikhi in Hazur Sahib puts panjab to shame.... do the maths 

Edited by Mahakaal96
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First question is who is transgender??

1) There are many transgender men that are living as women but have male sexual organs, in that case if they don't shave their beard they can hardly look or live like a woman

2 Natural born transgender. These type of cases are 1 in Lakh .it is very rare

 

3 Indian Hijra or eunuch , the castrated males.Many Indian Hijra's are product of forced castration .Some do join Hijra groups and willingly castrate them , they have their own rituals guru etc .The question of Amrit only arises if someone leaves Hijra groups and want to become sikh.

So it will depend on case by case

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I'm not quibbling over the import of the word "disassociate". What I'm saying is that your statement implied that if your husband (or wife) becomes an atheist you can divorce him.  And I said that that is specifically disallowed in Canon Law. On the other hand, if you were non-Christians in the first place, and you become a Christian, and your husband/wife divorces you, you have not violated anything if you remarry. But: If you were non-Christians in the first place, and you become a Christian, and your husband/wife does not divorce you, you cannot divorce him/her in Canon Law.
    • well bro what does disassociate mean to you ...I heard seperation of ways , but also I understood it to be a grey area since canon law still maintains that they are married despite the dharmic arth of the instruction..
    • hobson's choice , if you have a preselected array who have blessing from on high by centre there is NO choice only eyewash ....even Kejriwal showed his true colours when he didn't oppose the transfer of Jaggi to Tihar Jail
    • Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa. Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Often times I hear people say "SGGSJ doesnt say (insert topic) so it must be ok", and in the case of pre-marital sexual relations a dear friend of mine has made the same argument. My friend (non khalsa) argues that Bani specifically condemns rape, adultery, and polygamy, however isnt against sex outside of marriage, provided that both are not married to anyone, and have given consent. My friend likes to disregard anything outside SGGSJ.  He brings up tuks from Gurbani that specifically mention "others wives" to support the argument that its specifically about adultery, however I would argue, the English translation is very shallow, and in the context of Bani, "others wives" is also talking about anyone who isnt your wife, and isnt limited to adultery, but also anyone who isnt married.  Example 1:  Siri  Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 274 ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥ Par Thria Roop N Paekhai Naethr || ਪਰ means other ਤ੍ਰਿਅ means wife
        Example 2:  Siri  Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1013
      ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
      Abandoning his own wife, he is engrossed in sexual desire; his thoughts are on the wives of others.   Context:  Its not just talking just about adultery, the English translations are limiting, generally the concept is to not covet another wife, in the context of Bani, doesn't mean you can have sexual relations with women who are not married. Our rehat and history make it clear that one cannot have any sexual relations outside of marriage. There is a specific reason the Guru had 10 forms over 200 years, it was to show Sikhs how to live and practically apply Bani, otherwise the SGGSJ would have been all compiled by Guru Nanak and there would be no long history of the Guru in his many forms.    The SGGSJ isnt a rule book, and isnt going to specifically ban everything that we know is immoral. Where in SGGS Ji does it say that Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji was the 7th Guru Sahib after Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji? Why would a primary Sikh text not name him?  In terms of Gurbani, when taken into context, and even compared to rehat and our history, its clear that sexual relations outside of marriage are discouraged.    Do you agree with my argument? These are just a few tuks I decided to bring up, if anyone has any more, please feel free to share! 
    • Badal out, badnaam in...why do people vote so badly or 
×