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Would A Transgender Amritdhari Sikh Be A Singh or Kaur?


TheeTurbanator
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On 11/02/2018 at 8:25 AM, Kira said:

I'm not being harsh lol, im speaking from history.

There's a rigorous process to who gets amrit, in the ye olden days they used to do alot of looking into the person. If the person was a muslim the Nihangs used to make them eat pork to fully to prove they weren't muslim anymore (spies and such). Things like transgenderism (gender dysphoria) would  be and is a mental disorder. Can you imagine a dude, dressing up as a Singhni? We're meant to accept Hukam, not tell people God made a mistake in giving us this gender.

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

On 13/02/2018 at 5:46 PM, Mahakaal96 said:

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

The term khalsa existed before vaisakhi 1699 

 

Awwal Allah noor upaya qudrat keh sub banday

 

aik noor teh sub jag upajiya kaun bhale ko mandhe

(God created light of which all the beings were born

And from this light, the universe; so who is good and who is bad?)

Logaa bharam na bhoolahu maahi

khaliq khalq khalaq meh khaaliq poor rahio sarab tha'ee

(The creation is in the creator

And the creator is in the creation)

 

Maati aik anaik bhaanth ker saaji sajan haray

na kash poch maati kay bhanday na kash poch kunbharay

(The clay is the same, but the designer has fashioned it in various ways

Nothing is wrong with the pot of clay and there is nothing wrong with the potter)

Sub meh sacha aiko soee dis ka keya sub kuch hoyi

hukm pachanay saee ko janay banda kahiyeah soee

(The one true Lord abides in all and by his making everything is made

Whoever realises His command, knows the One Lord and he alone is said to be the Lord's slave)

Allah alkh na jaee lakhiya gur gur dheena meetha

kahay Kabir mair sanka naase sarab Niranjan

(The Lord Allah is invisible and He cannot be seen; the Guru has blessed me with this sweet brown sugar Says Kabir, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the immaculate Lord pervading everywhere)

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Transgender may take Amrit from the Punj Pyare.  Punj Pyare can tell them if they are Singh or kaur.

 

 

On 13/02/2018 at 5:46 PM, Mahakaal96 said:

No, they are not.

The Khalsa is a BROTHERhood of warriors..... not a social club where wives, sisters & daughter etc can all come along.

Warroirs:rofl Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs have not fought any war for several decades.  Only reason these guys have not been eliminated by the Indian government is because they are under the control of the Indian government through their leaders selling their souls.   They claim to be Nihangs but the real Nihang Singh left his house to protect Sri Harmandir sahib in a moments notice.  He fought without his head and showed what Nihang are made of.  Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs helped the very government that attacked Sri Akal Takht sahib in 1984 because they were power hungry. Such pathetic people will never be respected. They are playing dress up and nothing more.  

The Khalsa give women khande batte da Amrit.  This is what Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji did and that's what his Singhs, Punj Pyare will do.

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8 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

The term khalsa existed before vaisakhi 1699 

 

Awwal Allah noor upaya qudrat keh sub banday

 

aik noor teh sub jag upajiya kaun bhale ko mandhe

(God created light of which all the beings were born

And from this light, the universe; so who is good and who is bad?)

Logaa bharam na bhoolahu maahi

khaliq khalq khalaq meh khaaliq poor rahio sarab tha'ee

(The creation is in the creator

And the creator is in the creation)

 

Maati aik anaik bhaanth ker saaji sajan haray

na kash poch maati kay bhanday na kash poch kunbharay

(The clay is the same, but the designer has fashioned it in various ways

Nothing is wrong with the pot of clay and there is nothing wrong with the potter)

Sub meh sacha aiko soee dis ka keya sub kuch hoyi

hukm pachanay saee ko janay banda kahiyeah soee

(The one true Lord abides in all and by his making everything is made

Whoever realises His command, knows the One Lord and he alone is said to be the Lord's slave)

Allah alkh na jaee lakhiya gur gur dheena meetha

kahay Kabir mair sanka naase sarab Niranjan

(The Lord Allah is invisible and He cannot be seen; the Guru has blessed me with this sweet brown sugar Says Kabir, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the immaculate Lord pervading everywhere)

Yes, it comes from the word khalas.

Terms such as singh, ram, har, Narayan etc all existed prior to Sikhi.... what’s your point? 

The term Khalsa did indeed exist before 1699 but in 1699 Guru mahraj named his fauj Khalsa.... it was previously known as Akal Sena at time of 6th Guru 

The Khalsa fauj rehit does not come from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.... understand who & what Guru Granth Sahib Ji is & you will start to understand why 

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5 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Yes, it comes from the word khalas.

Terms such as singh, ram, har, Narayan etc all existed prior to Sikhi.... what’s your point? 

The term Khalsa did indeed exist before 1699 but in 1699 Guru mahraj named his fauj Khalsa.... it was previously known as Akal Sena at time of 6th Guru 

The Khalsa fauj rehit does not come from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.... understand who & what Guru Granth Sahib Ji is & you will start to understand why 

by the logic you are using , a woman can NEVER follow her Gurdev Pita ji's hukam to have pahul (since he only authorised one to replaced charan pahul )and also by that fact not achieve jiwan mukht status since Kirpan di pahul or gurti is not sufficient to make a Singh  and Khande di pahul and poora rehit can only open the path to sach khand ... so you must believe like hindus that women have a fault in them that they have to be reborn as men to achieve the chance ...?

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8 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Transgender may take Amrit from the Punj Pyare.  Punj Pyare can tell them if they are Singh or kaur.

 

 

Warroirs:rofl Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs have not fought any war for several decades.  Only reason these guys have not been eliminated by the Indian government is because they are under the control of the Indian government through their leaders selling their souls.   They claim to be Nihangs but the real Nihang Singh left his house to protect Sri Harmandir sahib in a moments notice.  He fought without his head and showed what Nihang are made of.  Buddha Dal and Hazoori singhs helped the very government that attacked Sri Akal Takht sahib in 1984 because they were power hungry. Such pathetic people will never be respected. They are playing dress up and nothing more.  

The Khalsa give women khande batte da Amrit.  This is what Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji did and that's what his Singhs, Punj Pyare will do.

So you want Nihangs to fight for people like you.... the same people who in 1920 supported the creation of SGPC & did nothing when the British adopted a shoot on site policy for any Nihang or Singh dressed in blue bana.... you... the same people who stood back and watched as Nihangs were forcefully removed from guru ghars across panjab & even refused langer... you the same sangat who watched Nihangs have to go into exile to Hazur Sahib & leave panjab....... now you people want Nihangs to fight & protect you?! 

Mahraj pulled his fauj back along time ago.... there’s even a Bachan in Bani that backs this up.... but I won’t be telling you what Bani or bachan that is

96 crore fauj WILL fight.... those who know, know when & why...... those who don’t call themselves ‘akalifauj’ but have nothing ‘akali’ about them.

My offer still stands by the way..... I’ll pay for your flights etc to go to Hazur Sahib & run your mouth like you do on here.... and please tell the women in Hazur Sahib that they should be getting khanda da amrit.... I want to see how long it takes before 1 of them slaps the tatti off your face.

 

43 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

by the logic you are using , a woman can NEVER follow her Gurdev Pita ji's hukam to have pahul (since he only authorised one to replaced charan pahul )and also by that fact not achieve jiwan mukht status since Kirpan di pahul or gurti is not sufficient to make a Singh  and Khande di pahul and poora rehit can only open the path to sach khand ... so you must believe like hindus that women have a fault in them that they have to be reborn as men to achieve the chance ...?

We’ve been through this many times..... Hazur Sahib ain’t hard to find.... go there and ask the women what they think then tell them you believe they should take Khande di Pahul..... you will get all the answers you need. Sikhi in Hazur Sahib puts panjab to shame.... do the maths 

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First question is who is transgender??

1) There are many transgender men that are living as women but have male sexual organs, in that case if they don't shave their beard they can hardly look or live like a woman

2 Natural born transgender. These type of cases are 1 in Lakh .it is very rare

 

3 Indian Hijra or eunuch , the castrated males.Many Indian Hijra's are product of forced castration .Some do join Hijra groups and willingly castrate them , they have their own rituals guru etc .The question of Amrit only arises if someone leaves Hijra groups and want to become sikh.

So it will depend on case by case

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Its simple really. How do the rest of us decide if anyone is male or female? By our biology.  

So it should be based on biology. Yes some trans people have dismorphia where their mental identity doesnt match with their biological identity. Why then try to change our biology (which cant really be changed much anyway)? Why not try to change the mental identity so that it matches with the reality. Because in reality, male and female only matters due to biology. 

Also, sikh is also about changing and reigning in the mind. We try to control lust, anger, greed, fear, stress, anxiety. These are all innate drives that are present in most animals. Yet we are taught to overcome and control these hardwired instincts. These are also based on hormonal, chemical underpinings. So why not try to control the mental disphoria? It is also hormonal, chemical based. Or at least try to live with it. Accept it as someone would accept living without an arm. Or how ppl live with infertility. As hukam.

Another thing is that hijra does not mean transgender. It is intersex. People born with male and female genitalia or having XXY chromosomes. In which case they are female and male genetically. Trans people have nothing wrong with their biology. 

Also there are people who are actually males, XY but they dont have male hormone receptors. So they develop as females. Externally their body develops as female, but internally they have no female organs such as ovaries or uterus. Usually they look more beautiful than normal females, because their have more hormones.  Its CAIH syndrome. I think ancient indians knew of this and that is why infertile women were so mocked and derided. Also Baanj in bani might be reffering to ppl like this. 

Another thing is that there are 2 sides to sikhi. One is the saintly side where one tries to meet the One. In this case ur gender, sexual orientation couldnt matter less. Its just a fact of karma like hair length. The other side to sikhi is where we try to make a better society. Thats why the Gurus told us not to run to the mountains. So 1 way to make society better is to procreate yourself  and bring up good children and live a gristhi jeevan in society. In this way one must have a job and follow societys rules and biologys rules. So for this to succeed, we cant have gay lifestyles or transgender ppl. 

Another way to make society better is to be a social reformer. Like many sants were. They taught ppl how to live and usually fought for social justice. Like building schools, orphanages, mental institutions  etc. LGBTQ  ppl can become sikhs, give up their lifestyle and become sants. 

Another way to make society better is to fight tyranny. Like the nihangs used to do. LGBTQ can do that as well as long as they become sikhs and are celibate

So LGBTQ have the same choice as every other sikh. Live a married gristh life or become celibate and dedicate ur life to society/panth. 

 

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