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superkaur

Majority ignorant young couples not taking Sikh marriage anand karaj vows seriously

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Decadence is the mainstream culture.

Be a rebel and make a stand. Living with strong family values is the counterculture. 

Make that change in your own lives. Lead by example and others will follow.

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Typical scenario #1 - a lot of Punjabi boys are mummys boys, who really cant do anything major outside of their families and houses and then try acting big in front of their wives. but when the wife, who comes from a liberal background, where she is used to going out, got a decent career etc, is suddenly chief enemy soon as she wants to live a similar lifestyle in her in laws house. This usually leads to the saas starting on her son, who in return switches on his wife instead of growing a pair. But also, I forgot to add, the guy himself goes out, goes on holidays (usually to mess around with hookers) etc and all is well. fact is, we aint living in the 70s anymore, where majority of the women our mothers age put up with domestic violence, alcohol abuse, cheating husbands etc due to divorce being so frowned up on.

 

Typical scenario #2 - the girl has messed around with loads of guys, meets a decent guy who usually is quite well off and thinks she will live like a queen. After the marriage hype, she gets bored and starts messing around again. this scenario actually applies to the guys too.

 

Typical scenario #3 - control freak kinda guy, seen as a good guy cus he got a good job etc, but psychologically bullys his wife.

there are loads more types of scenarios, but a common theme is tht divorce is on the increase, particularly to the point where our community is full of divorced women who are psychologically left damaged by their in laws and ex husbands. and surprise surprise, this turns them against us and straight into the arms of goreh and suleh.

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3 hours ago, BhForce said:

You do know that it's not allowed to state the patently obvious, don't you? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this, and yet, everyone intuitively knows it's true.

Their replacement parents are Hollywood, which says just **** every girl you see, and their teachers/professors/Marx, who says marriage is merely a oppressive institution, to be destroyed.

err Men get paid still the same wages despite women working ... and often as is the way the penny pinching of corporate accountants at board's behest means there is a policy of keeping pressure on the men and women so they either leave to allow for cheaper inexperienced staff to be moved in their stead or just made redundant . The reason why there are so many women working is not purely feminism it is the constant undermining of worker's pay and rights meaning to cover family bills they HAVE to work . It is nigh on impossible to run a household on one income these days if you are a blue collar worker even lower end white collar .

this second wave of automation may mean loss of 300 million jobs worldwide  so it is not just male-female politics but corporate vs individual.

 

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

The reason why there are so many women working is not purely feminism it is the constant undermining of worker's pay and rights meaning to cover family bills they HAVE to work

OK, well, how do you think it is that companies are able to apply downward pressure on wages? Answer: there are more workers, so companies have more leverage.

1. Do you mean to say that the laws of supply and demand operate in all other circumstances than in the influx of women into the workplace?

I'm not even saying women shouldn't work. I'm asking why you think it is that supply and demand don't work in relation to doubling the labor force. 

I do agree the doubling did not take place overnight. I hope you will also agree that the decrease in effective wages also did not take place overnight.

Furthermore, you don't have to actually decrease wages to cut them. Inflation cuts wages by a few percent every year automatically. A packet of milk doesn't cost the same as it did when your father was 18, does it?

Finally, I would be interested in knowing your answers to these questions:

2. If, in a given year, the wheat harvest doubled the quantity of wheat available, would the price of wheat go up or down?

3. If, in a given labor market, the same number of people as currently in the market came into that market (i.e., number of workers double via immigration or whatever), would wages go up or down?

4. And, if your answer to #3 is "down", then why would wages not go down in response to labor supply increasing via women entering the workforce?

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4 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, well, how do you think it is that companies are able to apply downward pressure on wages? Answer: there are more workers, so companies have more leverage.

1. Do you mean to say that the laws of supply and demand operate in all other circumstances than in the influx of women into the workplace?

I'm not even saying women shouldn't work. I'm asking why you think it is that supply and demand don't work in relation to doubling the labor force. 

I do agree the doubling did not take place overnight. I hope you will also agree that the decrease in effective wages also did not take place overnight.

Furthermore, you don't have to actually decrease wages to cut them. Inflation cuts wages by a few percent every year automatically. A packet of milk doesn't cost the same as it did when your father was 18, does it?

Finally, I would be interested in knowing your answers to these questions:

2. If, in a given year, the wheat harvest doubled the quantity of wheat available, would the price of wheat go up or down?

3. If, in a given labor market, the same number of people as currently in the market came into that market (i.e., number of workers double via immigration or whatever), would wages go up or down?

4. And, if your answer to #3 is "down", then why would wages not go down in response to labor supply increasing via women entering the workforce?

1. the workforce is not a fifity fifty split never has been ( I mean women were only part of the main workforce from second world war ) and in certain sectors there is female dominance e.g. childcare, nursing , primary teaching etc  due to them being traditionally the only viable professions for a decent woman.

The main reason why it doesn't translate quite so neatly as you think is because industry is constantly shedding jobs to enhance shareholder dividends. and in the public sector the additional funds pumped in are absorbed by a new level of management mostly men instead of paying for more low level ground workers e.g. NHS  trust managers vs. nurses,cleaners and porters .

I agree the workers are being ripped off by inflation faster than the employers but still the prices have to be compared against the wages of that time period e.g. my Dad buying a washing m/c back in 70s compared to us buying one now  would be cheaper now in that comparison.

but people have skillsets required to qualify for jobs , if the calibre is not there the wages will not drop just like that the wage will stay the same but people would have to develop themselves to be of the correct skillset/calibre to be eligible.

2. depends where you are talking of in India the farmers will get ripped off any how , in Eurozone they take the surplus and store to artificially keep prices up because supply would exceed demand .

3.  and 4 . sometimes down in unskilled labour jobs but mostly stay at the level currently at for skilled jobs . Like I said before jobs are a bit more complex than potatoes or peas . A lot of the women may not have the skillset or experience due to taking time out to do family rearing . i mean I know if I tried to go back now to prgramming I have to take a much more junior role than my age and previous experience would indicate nad that's fair enough . However if my friend has been at the workplace all this time I would expect her to get a higher wage and more senior role .same with the Guys , as far as I can see my male peers have all done well and have progressed immensely compared to even the career minded females from our course . It's the hidden differences we cannot discount. I know in the eighties women were the last to get jobs and if of colour then the very last it would go primarily to white dudes then dudes of colour then white  women then the rest

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16 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

when  you choose to distance yourself from the family there is more pressure to deal with everything yourselves rather than relying on help of caring people e.g. sudden illness, new baby , death etc. It is a lot to ask of immature adults which is the case of current crop

You’re right!  I’m sure it’s a struggle to get through life without the help and support of the extended family.  For many being perceived as trendy, so called modern and independent is more palatable than having to learn to accommodate others.  

The truth is nobody wants to invest time for others.  From once being caring social animals the new generation are fast discarding the skills needed to communicate with their own choice of partners and the wider extended ‘bhai chaara’ around them.  But this all needs to happen in order for ‘Kalyug’ to pass for the new ‘Yug’.  Time never changes it’s just the way people behave.   

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38 minutes ago, TigerForce1 said:

You’re right!  I’m sure it’s a struggle to get through life without the help and support of the extended family.  For many being perceived as trendy, so called modern and independent is more palatable than having to learn to accommodate others.  

The truth is nobody wants to invest time for others.  From once being caring social animals the new generation are fast discarding the skills needed to communicate with their own choice of partners and the wider extended ‘bhai chaara’ around them.  But this all needs to happen in order for ‘Kalyug’ to pass for the new ‘Yug’.  Time never changes it’s just the way people behave.   

In Asian families, they want to break the extended family into nuclear families. 

In western families they want to breakdown the nuclear families. 

Society is built on the family unit, you break the family up you can control and manipulate as everyone becomes automatons. 

That seems to be the ultimate goal.

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5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In Asian families, they want to break the extended family into nuclear families. 

In western families they want to breakdown the nuclear families. 

Society is built on the family unit, you break the family up you can control and manipulate as everyone becomes automatons. 

That seems to be the ultimate goal.

and Guru Pita ji told us to go the opposite direction towards making everyone family, our concern

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

and Guru Pita ji told us to go the opposite direction towards making everyone family, our concern

Guru Pita told us to fight against tyranny,  society seems to be moving towards it.

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17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

so it is not just male-female politics but corporate vs individual.

Truth. A major major problem. International corporations have undue influence the world over and their greed knows no bounds. 

I most definitely don't blame women or feminism for a prevalent wage decrease it was an unintentional effect of economics. 

Like you said the effect of that is dwarfed by having no right to land, no real political representation and no self determination in the political sense of the word. 

Edited by GurjantGnostic

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22 hours ago, BhForce said:

Yeah, wouldn't want to blame women. Women are exempt from criticism.

Anyways, the problem is feminism, not women:

 

Please don't put words in my mouth. O.p just presented a backwards opinion. I do however agree that modern day feminism is a cancerous movement.

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On 2/6/2018 at 10:52 PM, TigerForce1 said:

There is no solution!  Welcome to Kalyug.

 

People have changed along with the challenges of the times.  Both men and women are getting married at a later age  (30+) so they no longer have the tolerance to accommodate their partner or their partners families.  The too set in their ways of what the perceive as being comfortable.

 
In 80’s it wasn’t uncommon to see a bride and groom get married between the age 18-21.  You would regularly see girls who were put through education by the in-laws and slowly moving towards a career path within a few years into the marriage.  The boy would often be in the same situation and probably clueless about their future.  The married couple were still in their youth and were slowly growing into adulthood with the presence and advise of elders within the family unit.  Somehow this setup worked quite well and still kept the marriages strong and successful.
 
Nowadays everybody wants the complete article before marriage, usually comprising of education of some importance, well settled in a career, a big salary, a business, big detached house, a nice car, multiple properties to boast about, money in the bank for holidays and the cherry on top is no in-laws within 5 miles.
 
The success of the marriages of the previous generations were down to being young and sharing hardship along the way.  Sometimes this is the glue that keeps families together.  Joint decisions come into play and you are forced sacrifice yourselves for the sake of others.  This is not seen now as people are so selfish and impatient for material wealth and so called independence that they are ruthless when it comes down tolerating anyone other than themselves.  
 
But the odd thing is they are still unhappy!

this is so true

Even sikhs are forgetting grihast jeevan promoted all the way from Guru Nanak.

People are stuck in dating waste mentality at the age when elders were already married. By the time people are getting married, they have grown too old to be able to grow up with their marriage partner. They may even have wasted time growing up with boyfriend/girlfriend, not a publicly respectable partnership in sikh family. Only problem with boyfriend or girlfriend is that he/she will not have been brought up to respect others's parents. Doing this izzat-less dating things, they won't have izzat when they're married. The daughters aren't being given the sanskar to be married, and neither are the sons.

And no amount of money will make up for the lack of sanskar being taught. With these shrabbi-pendus, racism towards their own turban wearers is also being spread like a poison inside sikh community. Along with other kurahits such as tobacco/shisha/hookah and halal. Once you get a haircut, it becomes much easier to commit other kurahits.

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1 hour ago, ipledgeblue said:

With these shrabbi-pendus, racism towards their own turban wearers is also being spread like a poison inside sikh community. Along with other kurahits such as tobacco/shisha/hookah and halal. Once you get a haircut, it becomes much easier to commit other kurahits.

What are your thoughts on the attitudes of cut-haired Punjabis raised by 2nd or 3rd generation children of immigrants in a predominantly white middle class manner? Is there a chasm between that group and their perception of 2nd or 3rd generation Punjabis who are raising their kids in a religious and culturally orthodox manner? 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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On 2/12/2018 at 5:37 PM, MisterrSingh said:

What are your thoughts on the attitudes of cut-haired Punjabis raised by 2nd or 3rd generation children of immigrants in a predominantly white middle class manner? Is there a chasm between that group and their perception of 2nd or 3rd generation Punjabis who are raising their kids in a religious and culturally orthodox manner? 

 

I  think there are some cut-haired punjabi boys and girls spreading hate towards turban wearers in one way or another. They have even found a way to do this INSIDE gurdwaras via gurdwara matrimonial services. (Gurdwara matrimonial services seriously need to be policed by a sikh organisation).

A dharmik sikh may find it difficult to go to a cut-haired punjabi party. Most people these days will be drinking at these parties and won't be wearing turbans, you won't feel like you are surrounded by sikhs. And spending too much time with these relatives can influence you own children in a negative way, including via the drunks' children.

And you say religious. We need to divide even the "religious" sikhs from the dharmik sikhs. Religious is how a gora or arab behaves, in an abrahamic way. The religious ritualistic sikhs may also forget dharmik culture and then you get amrit-dharis doing things like dating due to that, as you can witness in the gupt section. For example, I see a lot of east africa sikh families who take amrit at 6 years but follow sikhi in a more ritualistic manner and don't seem to have a dharmik culture. I am also seeing in these families the men are sardars and the girls might be dressed with skirts and drinking glassy with the men, and now I am seeing this in some indian families as well that are sardars as well. Well for the east africans I can understand because they spent a longer time in colonialism and with goras. Need to replace being religious with being dharmik. And I think families had a culture that was closer to being dharmik, being religious doesn't make someone dharmik. Gora is religious, that still means he/she can get drunk and dress in a non-decent non-respectable manner.

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On 06/02/2018 at 2:38 PM, superkaur said:

Over the decade I have noticed a sharp increase in divorce rates within the Sikh community. We used to look at the white atheist/abrahamic communities and thank our lucky stars were not like their families because of the high number of divorces and family break downs. But sadly the desi/asian communities of all religions are now on par with their white counterparts.

It seems to me that boys and girls especially of our generation do not take the wedding vows or the anand karaj seriously they seem to live in carefree non-religious mindset without a care for how sikh society is structured and importance of religion in holding communities and families together. The girls of today are living a feminist rebellious bubble thinking they can do what they live when they live even while living with the husbands family and if they don't let them get away with things then they are quick to separate and then divorce. They have not been trained, educated and breed to behave to live a honorable and respectful manor befitting of a Sikh woman rather they are left to their own devices of living like their white women feminist hedonist counterparts who are themselves not very family orientated and selfish at heart.

What we need is a 1 month course of anyone wishing to have a sikh marriage anand karaj so that they do not take the marriage as a joke or lightly and think they can divorce when ever they feel like it. I believe the catholic church has a course like this for those who converting to cathollicism in order to marry in their churchs.

Has anyone else noticed this negative trend divorce trend? And what are the possible solutions to it.

 

Wow just wow 

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