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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Some Questions for Nirvair Khalsa Jatha

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1 minute ago, InderjitS said:

Yep :nosee:

Jesus. I didn't hear anything about it. When was this? Can ya say what happened, the gist?

It's not completely unbelievable, he seemed a bit soft. I remember meeting him a few years ago.

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12 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Jesus. I didn't hear anything about it. When was this? Can ya say what happened, the gist?

It's not completely unbelievable, he seemed a bit soft. I remember meeting him a few years ago.

pm dekho

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Guest NKJ oppose Caste
On 21/01/2018 at 1:14 AM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Just in case Harinder Singh and his NKJ read this, some honest questions :

1) You (the Nirvair Khalsa Jatha) were already registered at Companies House as a charity, which is totally right in accordance with the 'seva' you are performing....so why did NKJ register a separate profit making company at Companies House at the end of October 2017?

This is so that NKJ can do international parchar of Sikhi self-sufficiently without resorting to the Charity funds. It is possible for a charitable organisation doing parchar of Sikhi to have both two subsidiary entities for accounting purposes.

2) You (Harinder Singh) have yourself listed at Companies House as 'unemployed' and so, in your twenties and without a job, how did you manage to buy that £500,000 (£1.5 million in London prices) house Companies House has you as living in without the need for a mortgage.....i.e cash.......i.e. where did the money come from ?

It is possible for a former accountant and allied former professionals and Sangat supportive of NKJ to afford to rent separate rooms in a House of Multiple Occupation. The Landlord Company bought the the property for 300,000 odd which in the context of the UK is cheap.

3) A further check of the electoral roll reveals that just a ' Harinder Hayre' and another 20 something male live at that address. With Sikhi advocating a normal married lifestyle for all Sikhs and a hundred thousand daughters of the shaheeds of 1984 living destitute lives without saviour husbands why is the main man of NKJ living with a mystery 20 something year old male?

Good try at insinuating the same allegations as Taksali homosexual (Gavin) but two heterosexual from NJK management men can rent separate rooms in a House of Multiple Occupation along with other Gursikhs. Or are you implying that all Gursikhs who rent separate rooms alongside other Sikhs must be gay becuase Taksali Gavin was?

4) While NKJ come to Sikh areas to lecture why is it that Companies House shows every member of NKJ living in all-white towns way from traditional areas with the leader living in a remote all-white village?

Sikhs are 0.4% of the population in that particular area of the Midlands which is not far off the general 0.7% percentage that Sikhs constitute amongst the UK population. The exact location being central to Gurdwara's in the West and East Midlands and highly accessible to the M1.

5) Why does NKJ lecture everyone about using the name 'Singh' rather than what they call 'caste surnames' and yet Companies House, the Electoral Roll and every official entity has Harinder Singh using the name Harinder Hayre in everything he does away from his sermons to us and the rest of the group also do the same ?

If Bhai Harinder Singh is known as exactly that but happens to have his village name on his passport do you feel he should he should lie about his name for legal purposes?

and, finally..........

6) Why does the Director's business interests search through Companies House reveal that the main source of income of 2 of the NKJ group is.....'predominately Tobacco' ?

One of the volunteers who helped assist setting up the Company is a part shareholder in a newsagents. He resigned from the Company after setting it up and should not be used by Taksali's aiming to disrupt Sikhi parchar by NKJ

 

 

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On 1/21/2018 at 12:15 PM, SikhInTheMaking said:

My point wasnt about the white jag, it was more about the jatha in general. I just find the whole jatha very theatrical with the guy on the keyboard in the back and the chants and movements in sync with each other..... pretty sure our gurus didnt have a keyboard and a mic with an echo effect to make them sound more godly - they just seemed very fake to me. I know im gonna offend people by saying that but i honestly felt like i was being deceived by all these special effects etc 

When someone sits there telling you to forget your worldly possessions and stop trying to impress each other by competing with cars money houses etc. and then have a car like that outside its very hypocritical 

Thank you!!! You don’t need these theatric stage artist to preach.

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This is so that NKJ can do international parchar of Sikhi self-sufficiently without resorting to the Charity funds. It is possible for a charitable organisation doing parchar of Sikhi to have both two subsidiary entities for accounting purposes.

The main man of Nirvair Khalsa Jatha lives in a house in Scotland valued at £1.9 million (£5 million at London prices) and his declared income with the Inland Revenue is truly mind blowing. If 'Sikhi' was the main objective, this man alone could fund all NKJ parchars around the world. But Sikhi is not the main objective. Money is.

Quote

It is possible for a former accountant and allied former professionals and Sangat supportive of NKJ to afford to rent separate rooms in a House of Multiple Occupation. The Landlord Company bought the the property for 300,000 odd which in the context of the UK is cheap.

Lecturing everyone about 'big houses' and 'big cars' and yet with the UK having the western world's biggest Sikh homeless problem NKJ's main lecturer feels it is appropriate for him to be living in the biggest detached house any of us could ever imagine ? :hairan:

Quote

If Bhai Harinder Singh is known as exactly that but happens to have his village name on his passport do you feel he should he should lie about his name for legal purposes?

It's not the name of his village. Hayre's are from village Liddran. 'Hayre' is his caste name. He, like the rest of NKJ come to Sikh areas.....put Bollywood tunes over Gurbani.....adopt gimmicky sounds in order to 'sell' gurbani....and then go back to their large detached homes in white areas away from the prying eyes of the Sikhs you've just given lectured to ....and all the while making so much money from it that it buys you the type of big houses and fast cars that ordinary hard-working Sikhs can only dream about.

Quote

Why does the Director's business interests search through Companies House reveal that the main source of income of 2 of the NKJ group is.....'predominately Tobacco' ?

I said '2 of the directors of Nirvair Khalsa Jatha have their main source of income listed at Companies House as coming from, and I quote: 'predominately (the sale of) Tobacco'.

 

The point is none of us can serve god AND mammon (money). Gurbani even warns us that men with white robes will come along in the future and make a living off of Sikhi. Any my, in NKJ's case, what a damn good living it is.

 

If NKJ have something good to say.....why the need for Bollywood style theatrics ? Why not just say the things you have to say ?

If NKJ genuinely love Gurbani....why do they feel it is so lacking that it needs a Bollywood makeover ?

If NKJ have genuine love for Waheguru, (and Sri Guru Granth sahib ji says the environment is Waheguru) why does NKJ drive to Gurdwara programmes in big monster cars that destroy waheguru ?

One can not serve god AND mammon. It has to be one or the other and NKJ clearly serve mammon.

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3 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

and then go back to their large detached homes in white areas away from the prying eyes of the Sikhs you've just given lectured to

If you want to allege financial impropriety, that's your right. But I fail to understand why living in an area which has white people is some sort of crime. Why is it an infraction?

Are Sikhs obligated to live in Sikh areas? What is the appropriate percentage of Sikhs in an area in which Sikhs are allowed to live? A bare majority of 51% Or 2/3 at 66%? 75% 95%

When Guru Nanak Dev ji was born, what was the percentage of Sikhs in Guru ji's village? When, due to Guru ji's parchar, people across Punjab started to adopt Sikhism, did they then all move to Sikh areas? Or did they continue to live in their non-Sikh villages?

People live where it suits them, according to schools, surrounding scenery, jobs, transportation availability, prices, etc. What's the problem?

4 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

(and Sri Guru Granth sahib ji says the environment is Waheguru)

Do you have a line from Gurbani that states that?

4 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

why does NKJ drive to Gurdwara programmes in big monster cars that destroy waheguru ?

Really? Would you really like to state that you never use mechanized transportation? Do you walk everywhere you go? The difference between "big monster cars" and other cars is one of quantity, not quality. 

If someone were killing a family member of yours, would it matter to you if they were doing it fast, with a bullet, or slowly with dull knife? I think it wouldn't matter.

So how is it that you, with your little car, are not "destroying Waheguru"?

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BhForce,

"So how is it that you, with your little car, are not "destroying Waheguru" 

Seriously?

This is common sense. A car is a means to an end. It gets you from A to B. No one is questioning it's practicality. But anything that is over and above your means is excessive. It's that "excess" that is wrong. 

Edited by DailyMail
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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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If you want to allege financial impropriety, that's your right. But I fail to understand why living in an area which has white people is some sort of crime. Why is it an infraction?

Anyone can live where they like. But these people are not just 'anyone'. Anyone...i.e. 99.9999% of us work hard and get on with our own lives of raising our own families as best we can. We do not go around lecturing other people, let alone profit from these lectures. If I or you did.....I think we both would rightly expect to be held account to, at the very least, practice what we preach.
 

Quote

 

(and Sri Guru Granth sahib ji says the environment is Waheguru)

Do you have a line from Gurbani that states that?

 

No on me while I'm out and about no but...as you're over the age of 10 BHS, I would have thought you'd be at least old enough to understand that sarbat da bhala relates to nature (the environment) as well as living beings. I usually loathe to copy and paste but as I'm in a hurry here's something for you:

Sikhism is very concerned with the relationship between humanity and the environment. Sikhs believe that an awareness of the sacred relationship between humans and the environment is necessary for the health of our planet, and for our survival. In SGGS, man and material world (biotic and abiotic components of the environment) are no more seen as external to each other, but being involved in inter-dependent relationship, reciprocally conditioning the life of each other. Guru Nanak stresses this kind of inter-dependent relationship in his composition ‘Japu Ji’;
 

‘Pavan guru paani pita, Maata dharat mahat,
Divas raat do-e daaee daa-ia, Khelai sagal jagat’. (SGGS 8)


i.e. Air is vital force, Water the progenitor, the vast Earth is the mother of all, Days and Nights are nurses, fondling all creation in their lap.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib declares that the purpose of human beings is to be in harmony with all creation and that human domination is to be rejected. The Sikh Gurus recognized human responsibility towards the material world and its phenomena. So, the importance of Air, Water and Earth to life are emphasised over and over again in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The earth is referred to as the mother and as such requires our respect. Great care needs to be taken to ensure that no damage occurs to it while the Sikh is going about his or her daily life. The pollution of these three elements is against the principles laid down by the Gurus. The Sikh Scriptures emphasis the importance of the abiotic components of environment in the hymn:
 

Pavan paani dharati aakas ghar mandar har bani. (SGGS 723)


i.e. Air, water earth and sky are God's home and temple - sacred places which need to be protected and looked after.
The Sikh Gurus showed the world, the way to appreciate the interdependence of living beings and their environment and the way to nurture this interrelationship. All their constructions adhered to this principle. They built many Gurudwaras surrounded by large pools, which supported marine life, especially fish. This was clearly a sign to live in harmony with environment rather than in conflict with it. Guru Har Rai, the seventh Sikh Guru developed Kiratpur Sahib as a town of parks and gardens. Located on the banks of tributary of the Sutlej, he planted flowers and fruit bearing trees all over the area. This created a salubrious environment, attracting beautiful birds to the town and turning it into an idyllic place to live in.
 

Quote

 

Really? Would you really like to state that you never use mechanized transportation? Do you walk everywhere you go? The difference between "big monster cars" and other cars is one of quantity, not quality. 

If someone were killing a family member of yours, would it matter to you if they were doing it fast, with a bullet, or slowly with dull knife? I think it wouldn't matter.

So how is it that you, with your little car, are not "destroying Waheguru"?

 

Well now BHS I must admit I never had you down for being a member of Trump's climate change denial gang. With you not understanding even the basics of environmental footprint and eco-responsible behaviour I don't think I could achieve much by teaching you anything here and now.

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25 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

"So how is it that you, with your little car, are not "destroying Waheguru" 

Seriously?

Yes, seriously, bro.

Would you please answer my questions above?

If someone were killing a family member of yours, would it matter to you if they were doing it fast, with a bullet, or slowly with dull knife? I think it wouldn't matter. (Please do answer this question.)

I think you're smart enough to figure out my analogy in that killing a person slowly is akin to destroying Waheguru" slowly (with a little car). If a monster car has a 4L engine, and a small car has a 1L engine, then the little car will "destroy Waheguru" in 4x the time the monster car will. 

So, why is it OK to "destroy Wahegur", just in 4X the time?

29 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

This is common sense. A car is a means to an end. It gets you from A to B. No one is questioning it's practicality. But anything that is over and above your means is excessive. It's that "excess" that is wrong. 

It may surprise you to know that I basically sympathize with you--if we're talking about expenses. Especially if we're talking about expenses paid by the Sangat.

However, that's not what Jagsaw was talking about. He said monster cars "destroy Waheguru".

Now, you say that a car is supposed to get you from A to B, and anything over that is "excess".

So, tell me, do you (or Jagsaw Singh) have an 800cc Maruti Alto? It gets you from A to B.

420px-Maruti_Suzuki_Alto.jpg

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1 minute ago, BhForce said:

So, tell me, do you (or Jagsaw Singh) have an 800cc Maruti Alto? It gets you from A to B.

This is a Suzuki, far more reliable than a Jaaaag :grin

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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So, tell me, do you (or Jagsaw Singh) have an 800cc Maruti Alto? It gets you from A to B.

Come on now BHS. You know as well as I do that a 800cc Maruti will not get you from A to B.  It will get you tipped over in a ditch each time a truck passes or a moderately strong wind blows.

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Doing parchar of God’s name is a good thing. But I don’t like the guilt trip theme they use. Don’t watch Eastenders or anything on tv because then you’re bad 🙊.  Plus the Bollywood tunes, as the true essence of kirtan is being lost. 

Edited by simran345
Added more.

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BhForce,

The Guru's don't want us to revert to the 16th century, with no cars and no technologies. But everything is within moderation. Excessive sleeping, excessive eating - all wrong. Both documented within gurbani. But the Guru's didn't advocate for us to stay awake and starve - get it? 

This therefore begs the question, why the monster cars?

 

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