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Problem with my Guru Ghar's Committee right now

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21 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

They didn't need a gurdwara there anyway as it's a gurdwara right opposite a gurdwara which in turn is 30 seconds walk from an even bigger gurdwara.

True, it wasn't required. But remember, the Gurdwara that is opposite it actually came about much later. The other, "even bigger" Gurdwara that is 30 seconds away has been there for much longer of course.

 

Edited by DailyMail

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On 06/02/2018 at 11:21 AM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Those were days when half of the Havelock Road sangat was made up of Hounslow people as Hounslow didn't have a Gurdwara. (took the Hounslow sangat 30 years to establish one) It wasn't until the 1980's that the Hounslow sangat found a small piece of land  behind a house on Hibernia Road (you had to go through that man's side access and his orchard in his back garden in order to get to the Gurdwara). The darbar hall was a portacabin structure and the langar hall was an old shed. Pretty soon money got involved and they bought more land and expanded it so that the main entrance would be Alice Way off of Hanworth Road but it'll always be known as the 'Hibernia Road' gurdwara in my mind

Oh yes, I remember that side entrance from Hibernia Road, used it many a time. I heard the the owner took the committee to court over it which is why they permanently blocked it off.  Master Ranjit Singh was a founding member, he was one of the good guys, the others not so much. Once the main Gurdwara was constructed, as it stands now, the cabin was used as the library. 

I rarely talk to my mother about the historical background of the prominent Hounslow Guru Ghar, Martindale (Nishkam run) being the other.  But I do know that at least one of the respected and famous figures was not the shining beacon everyone thought he was..

Hey ho, most of us have skeletons in the cupboard, best not to dwell on negatives.

We stopped going to Havelock for a number of years after the corrupt beant and his cronies wrestled control from the ISYF, not my decision as I was still a kid and ended up being a regular at Alice Way and eventually to Park Av.

Edited by InderjitS

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the access from Hibernia Road still in use? There are 2 gates. And yes, it'll always be known as Hibernia Rd Gurdwara!

Slowly but surely, Hibernia Rd developed from a hut to a very well run, well-oiled Gurdwara. Of course, it has it's short-comings as do other Gurdwarae.

I think a lot of sangat kept away from Havelock Rd from the late 80's-most of the 90's due to the sheer violence, and with two Gurdwarae in Hounslow, us guys didn't feel left out anyway. 

 

 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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Slowly but surely, Hibernia Rd developed from a hut to a very well run, well-oiled Gurdwara. Of course, it has it's short-comings as do other Gurdwarae.

What happened to the Hibernia Rd Gurdwara was nothing short of a bloodless coup. Slowly, over time, the rich business class families from Delhi started to dominate the committee and the result is that it is now the most Indian government friendly major Gurdwara in the UK.

Quote

I think a lot of sangat kept away from Havelock Rd from the late 80's-most of the 90's due to the sheer violence, and with two Gurdwarae in Hounslow, us guys didn't feel left out anyway. 

I wouldn't say it was because of the politics of Havelock Rd. It was a mixture of reasons:

1) Hounslow establishing it's own Gurdwara (finally) so no need to go to Southall

2) With Southall gurdwara shifting it's major centre to Park Avenue (Nama Southall) , Hounslow residents losing that cultural, historical  and geographical affinity and proximity that they had with Prana Southall (Havelock Rd).

That's a very important point because I don't think the current youngsters, newcomers and non-Southall residents understand the deep historical divide in terms of our Sikh history between old and new Southall. When I was very little, nobody would ever say they were "going to Southall". They would spell out whether they were going to "old" or "new" Southall. Things change.

I was actually talking about this to my dad quite recently....I remarked how our family, like our kara, had gone full circle. We started off in a rural village (Punjab).....moved to a built up industrial urban area of a giant city (London)......then moved to the suburbs (Osterley) and now live in a village type semi-rural area again. And I'm pretty sure my children, once they grow up, will probably start the circle all over again and move to a built up inner city area of London as the hipsters gentrify it. The circle of life.

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1 hour ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

like our kara,

What is a kara? Gurmukhi spelling, please.

1 hour ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

We started off in a rural village (Punjab).....moved to a built up industrial urban area of a giant city (London)......then moved to the suburbs (Osterley) and now live in a village type semi-rural area again

You live in a semirural area? I would guess that that must not be a Jatt Sikh village.

And you're the same fellow who tore into the NKJ folks for "living in a remote all-white village"??

Facepalm.

ਕਬੀਰ ਅਵਰਹ ਕਉ ਉਪਦੇਸਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਮੈ ਪਰਿ ਹੈ ਰੇਤੁ ॥

ਰਾਸਿ ਬਿਰਾਨੀ ਰਾਖਤੇ ਖਾਯਾ ਘਰ ਕਾ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੯੮॥

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੯੮):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੬੯ ਪੰ. ੧੩ 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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You live in a semirural area? I would guess that that must not be a Jatt Sikh village

Not just my family. Practically none of the pioneer Sikh families of the Southall of the 1950's still live in Southall. All of the original west London familes live in the semi-rural commuter belts of Surrey, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire. And yes, seeing that you've asked, most of them are jatts and nearly all of them have their roots in the small manjki and dhak cluster of villages of doaba.

Quote

And you're the same fellow who tore into the NKJ folks for "living in a remote all-white village"??

I'm that same fella that said it is absolutely and totally morally wrong and hypocritical for the NKJ to go around Sikh areas lecturing people on how to live their lives...telling them they are sinfull.....telling them they will not get to heaven (sachkand) and destroying / dividing families and marriages in the process......and then cry 'nindya' whenever questions their accumulation of wealth.

So....seeing how you like to quote threads...howzabout re-looking at this one:

NKJ better know that I know more than I've let on so far and I will relentlessly follow that money trail.  I know the NKJ know this because since I started that thread you, BHS,  might not have cared or even noticed when I stated how 2 of the NKJ had their source of income listed with the inland revenue as "predominately (from the sale of) tobacco" but they (NKJ) have taken frantic steps to cover their tracks and clear up any loose ends. Anyone that goes around giving moral lectures to others and doesn't care one iota how much personal / family harm is caused in the process AND getting mega rich on it MUST be expected to be judged to a higher standard and MUST have their own lives scrutinised for hypocrisy.

So what else you got BHS ?

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6 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

With Southall gurdwara shifting it's major centre to Park Avenue (Nama Southall) , Hounslow residents losing that cultural, historical  and geographical affinity and proximity that they had with Prana Southall (Havelock Rd).

Yes, it was always specified whether it was prana southall or not. In our house it still is, occasionally. Prana Southall of course, has changed. The predominant community is Somalian of Afghan and the vibe isn't there. Who remembers Virdee brothers?! I still remember my dad buying all of our Punjabi books from there and I'd buy the odd bhangra cassette! 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
35 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

Yes, it was always specified whether it was prana southall or not. In our house it still is, occasionally. Prana Southall of course, has changed. The predominant community is Somalian of Afghan and the vibe isn't there. Who remembers Virdee brothers?! I still remember my dad buying all of our Punjabi books from there and I'd buy the odd bhangra cassette! 

Virdees had a great little thing going. Asian families from all over the UK would visit Southall to see a film at the Dominion and as soon as it was over they'd feel like buying the record....which Virdees, just a few doors down, happily supplied. I'm sure Virdees and the Dominion had a nice 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours' arrangement going :)

 

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12 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

What happened to the Hibernia Rd Gurdwara was nothing short of a bloodless coup. Slowly, over time, the rich business class families from Delhi started to dominate the committee and the result is that it is now the most Indian government friendly major Gurdwara in the UK.

Overtly, yes it may be Indian govt friendly. But I'd rather it was that way round. There are other gurdwarae, including Southall and elsewhere, that project a panthic or Sikh nationalistic agenda but are in bed with the Indian govt behind the scenes. At least I know where I stand with Hibernia Rd.

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13 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

predominately (from the sale of) tobacco"

I see what you're saying here but don't many sikhs own stores and restaurants that sell meat, alcohol, and tobacco? 

They don't consume it themselves per their rehit, but what forbids them from profiting off those who exercise free will and do not walk the path?

I used to by my smokes and alcohol from a sardar. By his example and Vahegurus kirpa I stopped. I feel like his pressence and example were a very positive example in my life. 

It made me think twice every time I went and helped forge my resolve. He never judged me or looked down on me but I bet his prayers were with me. I could feel it. 

Edited by GurjantGnostic

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3 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I see what you're saying here but don't many sikhs own stores and restaurants that sell meat, alcohol, and tobacco? 

They don't consume it themselves per their rehit, but what forbids them from profiting off those who exercise free will and do not walk the path?

It's true that a lot of "Sikhs" sell meat and alcohol and so on, but you are not supposed to. If you are an amritdhari Sikh, you are told not to do so.

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10 minutes ago, BhForce said:

It's true that a lot of "Sikhs" sell meat and alcohol and so on, but you are not supposed to. If you are an amritdhari Sikh, you are told not to do so.

Makes sense. Once I realized the truth about alcohol I left the industry so as not to contribute to other people's demise and also to not be around it. Is it Gurbani directed or by the committees?

Edit: I did take one security job in a club after that, which seemed better than serving it but I left that job and have been fortunate enough not to have to go back to work in the industry at all after that. 

Edited by GurjantGnostic
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3 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Makes sense. Once I realized the truth about alcohol I left the industry so as not to contribute to other people's demise and also to not be around it. Is it Gurbani directed or by the committees?

Oral rehit. But I would say it's based in the ethos of Gurbani. Because if you believe from Gurbani that

1) Mankind is one brotherhood with one Divine Father.

and

2) Nasha (drugs) are poison

then why would you not also believe

3) You shouldn't want to poison your brother

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1 minute ago, BhForce said:

Oral rehit. But I would say it's based in the ethos of Gurbani. Because if you believe from Gurbani that

1) Mankind is one brotherhood with one Divine Father.

and

2) Nasha (drugs) are poison

then why would you not also believe

3) You shouldn't want to poison your brother

I hear that. 

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On 06/02/2018 at 10:12 PM, DailyMail said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the access from Hibernia Road still in use? There are 2 gates

Going there tomorrow hopefully will report back, if the pedestrian access is not closed the car one from that side will be.

We always defined old/new sides based on demarcation lines of the railway bridge.

 

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