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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Amritdharis marrying hair-cut spouses - <banned word filter activated> Jagmeet Singh ?

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34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

That was a comment about how this person comes across, in stark contrast to Sikhism.

If you have to council a loved one, out of your genuine desire for their wellbeing, what would you say is the right way to go about that?

Ask them their story , listen and address what they say compassionately, of course if it was something unreasonable they would be asked to think about it , in a way that they have to do introspection and work the solution themselves ...I've had to do it for  a youngster who was in bad company, destroyed his rehit and relations. He is on the mend now but for a while it was painful for all involved... Jagmeet is not a green teenager but a grown man, who is learned in argument and case-making ...

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6 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Ask them their story , listen and address what they say compassionately, of course if it was something unreasonable they would be asked to think about it , in a way that they have to do introspection and work the solution themselves ...I've had to do it for  a youngster who was in bad company, destroyed his rehit and relations. He is on the mend now but for a while it was painful for all involved... Jagmeet is not a green teenager but a grown man, who is learned in argument and case-making ...

That sounds very reasonable, I'm glad your friend is on the mend too.  Is that what you feel jagsaw was doing?

Jagmeet isn't even here to be corrected brother man.  So is it really about helping a brother with his rehit?

I'm pretty sure if Jagmeet was called out publicly by Jagsaw he'd respond in a much kinder way.  So who's rehit is really slipping?

Edited by GurjantGnostic
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12 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm not hurt, I was worried that perhaps Jagsaw is in poor health and perhaps not following his rehit, so I said something.

You can certainly contact them much more directly and privately over facebook messenger or email etc.  He's not even here to be corrected.

 

look I've discussed my situation ad  naseum and Jwaan is stirring like a troll ... I've been married 22 years to the same guy we live as sikhs, our kids are gursikhs... I have been open about the racism experienced in gurdwarey and SIKH school by my eldest . SIkhi is colour-blind and doesn't recognise borders on the face of Mata Dharat Mahat. Sikhi is hard when you have no support , I know because I grew up in a white/black poor neighbourhood and nobody knew sikhi. So I try to extend support to younger siblings ...

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On 1/18/2018 at 2:34 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

With Jagmeet Singh this week publishing photographs of him and his bride to be something struck me:   If an Amritdhari girl with a dastar started parading around photos of herself with her boyfriend / soon to be husband and that husband happened to be a fella with a jazzy b type stylized hair cut would any of us have the same reaction we are displaying towards Jagmeet ? Would we be saying "aahh...what a lovely couple" ?  or would we be saying "&lt;banned word filter activated&gt; ???".  So why no fuss over Jagmeet's bride who is not only not amritdhari but also not long -haired as she keeps it cut and styled to just below shoulder level ?  Where's the outcry ?? Doesn't anything mean anything anymore?   Does gender, money and power buy you priveledges from your faith's rules ?

 

 

How many young amritdhari men are there?  And how many young amritdhari women are there?

Among Sikhs under the age of 40, there are probably two or three times as many amritdhari men as there are amritdhari women.

 

Perhaps you would be happy if all the singhs who couldn't find amritdhari spouses just went through their lives without every getting married.  Wouldn't that be great?

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5 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

look I've discussed my situation ad  naseum and Jwaan is stirring like a troll ... I've been married 22 years to the same guy we live as sikhs, our kids are gursikhs... I have been open about the racism experienced in gurdwarey and SIKH school by my eldest . SIkhi is colour-blind and doesn't recognise borders on the face of Mata Dharat Mahat. Sikhi is hard when you have no support , I know because I grew up in a white/black poor neighbourhood and nobody knew sikhi. So I try to extend support to younger siblings ...

I'm sorry that your children are subject to racism.  I'm happy that you've been there for them as a voice for support and a voice of truth in your community.  I applaud you sir.

I'd just ask of you perhaps show some compassion for Jagmeet since he's a human being, and you yourself have been in very similar shoes.

Keep up the good fight, of addressing racism and homophobia, and your very successful marriage is a beacon of light to many who still face persecution.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions in the above posts, it's okay if you don't want to respond to them all, I think they're good food for thought for anyone.

Edited by GurjantGnostic
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On 1/18/2018 at 5:30 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

He's an opportunist who will say and do anything to satisfy his ego for power. To the Sikhs, he tells us what we want to hear. To the masses, he also tells them what they want to hear : Like his promises to legalize all Heroin and Crack Cocaine in Canada if elected.

In his first ever interview when he became an MP he said he used modelling in fashion magazines as a springboard to become an MP. His political opponents even today say he sets up media confrontations in order to sell himself. This ego obsessed individual lives and breathes PR. He plays us as well as he plays the media.

Two things there: They recently got engaged but he's stated they've been boyfriend and girlfriend for a long time now. Not only does that beg the question if she hasn't been able to take Sikhi on board after a few years what makes anyone think she will now but also what ego within an amritdhari man led him to chase and persue a sexual relationship with a waxed and hair-cutted girl ?   Secondly,  there is absolutely nothing wrong with any person wishing to cut their hair. That is a personal choice for each individual and must be respected. The issue however is that this man  baptised himself into the Khalsa and that Khalsa has a code of conduct (maryada). Maryada is Guru ji's hukam. Apparently he thinks he is above HIS hukam. We, as HIS sons all have a duty to pull this man down to his rightful place.

 

You said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with any person wishing to cut their hair".  No, there is something wrong with that. 

Obviously, the Khalsa are supposed to uphold certain standards, but that doesn't mean the rehat maryada does not apply to non-Khalsa Sikhs.  All Sikhs should strive to live according the rehat maryada as closely as possible.

To suggest that certain practices that are forbidden in Sikhi are somehow completely okay as long as they are done by a sehajdhari Sikh who has yet to take amrit is silly.

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
8 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

 

How many young amritdhari men are there?  And how many young amritdhari women are there?

Among Sikhs under the age of 40, there are probably two or three times as many amritdhari men as there are amritdhari women.

 

Perhaps you would be happy if all the singhs who couldn't find amritdhari spouses just went through their lives without every getting married.  Wouldn't that be great?

So it's agreed then is it Californiasardar....the consensus here is that a brand new Amritdhari Rehat Maryada has been written and approved by Sikhsangat.com and according to the new Maryada all Amritdharis must be free to have intimate relations with whosoever they chose ?   I'll always stand with sangat and willingly support the consensus amongst our quom so lets be abundantly clear and straightforward about this.....is this the new Maryada we're all advocating here ?

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24 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

 

How many young amritdhari men are there?  And how many young amritdhari women are there?

Among Sikhs under the age of 40, there are probably two or three times as many amritdhari men as there are amritdhari women.

 

Perhaps you would be happy if all the singhs who couldn't find amritdhari spouses just went through their lives without every getting married.  Wouldn't that be great?

fact is when I was a teen nobody wanted to marry me because I was too religious , I wear a dastar ...in fact I was told that to my face. there are many hypocritical amritdhari guys who want a fashionable girl including my bro just younger than me , he is totally opposed to his missus wearing a dastar etc. and I know of at least five Amritdhari Singhs of my generation who experimented with gori kali GFs then married Indian sikh brides ...of course they never mention anything to their wives.

I would be happy if SInghs stop experimenting as ALL females deserve respect, they should teach and encourage their sisters into the faith especially if the parents are giving grief to their sisters and cousins. If you are interested in someone make sure they are actioning an interest in becoming a full sikh else there is little point .

There are loads of dastar wearing females who are still  waiting for the one Singh ... so no there isn't a totally scarcity

Edited by jkvlondon

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8 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

We complain because we don't have enough Sikhs in politics. When we do have one we still complain because he's not a Mahapurkh. A generalisation that one could make is Sikhs in political power have not always adhered to maryada as strictly as janta. The same is true for many other communities, and just like Jagmeet they know where their loyalties lie - for the qaum. I find it hard to believe that his motives are otherwise. If they were, he would have been at an advantage had he still been a mona rather than an Amritdhari.

 

 

Exactly. 

I don't think Jagmeet Singh is perfect, and I have a problem with some of the things he has said and done.  But if he really would say or do anything for power, like Jagsaw Singh/West London Singh suggests, he would have been a mona.  For anyone to overlook how much easier it would have been for him to advance in his career if he was mona (ESPECIALLY in something like politics, which is so dependent on popularity with the masses) is ridiculous.

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18 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm sorry that your children are subject to racism.  I'm happy that you've been there for them as a voice for support and a voice of truth in your community.  I applaud you sir.

I'd just ask of you perhaps show some compassion for Jagmeet since he's a human being, and you yourself have been in very similar shoes.

Keep up the good fight, of addressing racism and homophobia, and your very successful marriage is a beacon of light to many who still face persecution.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions in the above posts, it's okay if you don't want to respond to them all, I think they're good food for thought for anyone.

homophobia???  JKV with emphasis on K for Kaur ...that's why ppl object that I married a gora DEsi Kaur with Gora guy

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
5 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

You said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with any person wishing to cut their hair".  No, there is something wrong with that. 

Obviously, the Khalsa are supposed to uphold certain standards, but that doesn't mean the rehat maryada does not apply to non-Khalsa Sikhs.  All Sikhs should strive to live according the rehat maryada as closely as possible.

To suggest that certain practices that are forbidden in Sikhi are somehow completely okay as long as they are done by a sehajdhari Sikh who has yet to take amrit is silly.

Quote

You said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with any person wishing to cut their hair".  No, there is something wrong with that. 

A person...be he John Smith in Glasgow or Maria Santos in Spain must never be told he or she is wrong or is doing something morally wrong because he or she cuts her hair. Sikhi must never be forced on non-sikhs. As long as they are  good people doing good for the world they cannot be 'wrong'.

Quote

To suggest that certain practices that are forbidden in Sikhi are somehow completely okay as long as they are done by a sehajdhari Sikh who has yet to take amrit is silly.

No it's not silly. A Sikh that willingly initiates himself into the Khalsa must hold himself to a higher moral standard. To wish to wear the robes and wield the arms but not practice the virtue is sillyness at it's purest form. It is more than silly....it is deceit.

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23 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

homophobia???  JKV with emphasis on K for Kaur ...that's why ppl object that I married a gora DEsi Kaur with Gora guy

I totally got confused somehow.  Well, I'm sure you would object to homophobia as well! lol

my bad.

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Guest Singh

When Jagmeet was running for party leader, the first thought that came to my mind was that it’s going to be our own people that try to bring him down.  That’s exactly what happened.  First the moderate sikhs went to the media and tried to paint him as a terrorist as he was trying to get the 1984 massacre recognised as genocide.      Then Indian politicians turned on him and basically said he should mind his own business and not be concerned with what goes on in Punjab. When people thought he was single, the goray thought it was normal but the apnay started spreading rumours that he was gay.  Now people are saying he needs to be brought down because he’s not marrying and amritdhari?  

It’s easy to be critical, but I’m just happy he found someone to marry because at 38 it’s not an easy thing to do.  

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