If I follow a Human Guru, but respect the Guru Granth Sahib as also a Guru, then am I a Sikh?

[simran345]

 

 

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ????

[TheeTurbanator]

1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Do you want to become naamdhari? If not then what is it too you?

NO, not trying to become a Naamdhari, I just have a Naamdhari friend who keeps insisting that he is a Sikh even tho he follows other gurus. 

[TheeTurbanator]

2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

 

Naamdharis jap naam more than SGGS believers. 

 

That’s a pretty stupid statement. You just ignored all the Sikhs who do jap Naam. 

You also ignore the fact that it’s easy to keep a small tight kit community on the same path, but as they grow you will eventually start to lose control. If I get 50 of my friends together, and get them to all follow the same thing, it will be easier to make them do something compared to if I got 50,000. A’s “Naamdharis” grow, they will lose control. 

Recently, one of their fake gurus died without appointing a successor, and it caused a civil war. Now there is a branch of them who are trying to infiltrate the mainstream Sikh population to spread their cult. 

 

 

2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

People are allowed to follow different paths to the same destination.  Who are we to judge them if we ourselves do not follow the words of our Guru - SGGS - Which forbids us to judge others. Hum nahi chan-ge bhurha nahi koi.

Sikhi is a universal path, and people of different identifications can reach the same destination, but the steps one must take are still the same, even if achieved in different ways. 

To truly become free, one requires a true Guru. Let me ask you this, are the 4 Gurus after Guru Gobind Singh Ji that the Naamdharis follow “true” Gurus? Is it truthful to lie about history? Is it truthful to history bani? Is it truethful to change Sikhi itself to fit your agenda? Because Naamdharis have done all of this. 

Sure the mainstream Sikhs might not be as specialized as Naamdharis are in certain asoects, but at least they follow the true Guru. 

 

2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

There have been other Gurus in the past before our ten Gurus.  So was mukti not available then?

Did one of the 14 Gurus Naamdharis claim to follow not specifically instruct Sikhs to follow the SGGSJ as the Guru? Did he not end the line of human Gurus? We’re Sikhs not given the tools to achieve Mukti in SGGSJ so that they needed 4 more Gurus? 

[TheeTurbanator]

4 hours ago, Kira said:

no.

I was talking to a Naamdhari and he basically said that in Gurbani (not SRM) the definition of a Sikh is so inclusive that even a Muslim or Hindu could be a Sikh. He points to how a lot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s followers were Hindu and Muslims, and remained so, but were considered Sikhs. He says Sikh identity is only mainly for the Khalsa, and that according to Girbani, it’s possble to be a Sikh but follow human Gurus. 

[jkvlondon]

2 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I was talking to a Naamdhari and he basically said that in Gurbani (not SRM) the definition of a Sikh is so inclusive that even a Muslim or Hindu could be a Sikh. He points to how a lot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s followers were Hindu and Muslims, and remained so, but were considered Sikhs. He says Sikh identity is only mainly for the Khalsa, and that according to Girbani, it’s possble to be a Sikh but follow human Gurus. 

that's some mental gymnastics there , the definition of guru implies diksha  and then acceptance so what do they promise their dehdahri guru  as opposed to Guru Granth Sahib/Akal Purakh?

[Kira]

19 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I was talking to a Naamdhari and he basically said that in Gurbani (not SRM) the definition of a Sikh is so inclusive that even a Muslim or Hindu could be a Sikh. He points to how a lot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s followers were Hindu and Muslims, and remained so, but were considered Sikhs. He says Sikh identity is only mainly for the Khalsa, and that according to Girbani, it’s possble to be a Sikh but follow human Gurus. 

That in itself is the stupidest thing I've ever seen or heard. Your Naamdhari friends need to really get their heads out of their pakhandi Babe's proverbial rear end. 

You can't be a muslim and a Sikh, do you want to know why? because you Muslims recite the Kalima which literally calls Guru Nanak Dev Ji false. Gurbani tells you where Muhammad went wrong and why his path is wrong. So tell me how both paths which say the other is false, how on earth its possible to be both. That alone has to be the peak of stupidity. 

[simran345]

4 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

Naamdharis jap naam more than SGGS believers.

Yes that was a pretty stupid statement. How can anybody judge on who japs Naam or not? Where are you getting this nonsense from?

4 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

Who are we to judge them if we ourselves do not follow the words of our Guru - SGGS - Which forbids us to judge others.

Isn't that what you just did above this sentence? ??

[Guest GuestForNow]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

 

There is an easy answer to this, Guru gobind singh ji says in chaupai sahib. 

ਤੁਮਹਿ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੋਈ ਅਵਰ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਯਾਊ ॥

ਜੋ ਬਰ ਚਾਹੌ ਸੁ ਤੁਮ ਤੇ ਪਾਊ ॥

Tumeh Chhaadd Koiee Avar N Dhrayaauoo ||

Jo Bar Chaaha S Tum Tay Paauoo ||

May I not forasake you and may I not meditate on anyone else except you.

May I obtain from you, whatever gifts I want

 

Bhai Gurdas Ji writes about the same thing, if you look in two mirrors you wont see the truth you are looking for. He summarises the pangti at the end stating if you worship other gods or devi/devte you will get the beats of jamdoot and your life will be cursed. Nice and clear isn’t it?!

 

ਦੋਇ ਦਰਪਨ ਦੇਖੈ ਏਕ ਸੈ ਅਨੇਕ ਰੂਪ ਦੋਇ ਨਾਵ ਪਾਵ ਧਰੈ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਨ ਪਾਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

Dhoi Dharapan Dhaykhai Ek Sai Anayk Roop Dhoi Naav Paav Dharai Pahuchai N Paar Hai ||

Just as looking into two or more mirrors placed side by side show more than one image; and placing feet in two boats does not enable one to sail across the river.

 

ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਹੋਇ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਟੇਵ ਗਹੈ ਸਹੈ ਜਮ ਡੰਡੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਹੈ ॥੪੬੭॥

Gurasikh Hoi Aaan Dhayv Sayv Ttayv Gahai Sahai Jam Dda(N)Dd Dhirag Jeevan Sa(N)Saar Hai ||467||

Similarly, if a devout Sikh of Guru worships other gods and goddesses to assuage his addiction, what to speak of his liberation, he even bears the punishment of the angels of death. His life is condemned by the world. (467)

 

[MrDoaba]

For Gods sake if you have such a problem with him why are you friends with him? Just leave him be. It's not as if he's gonna turn the whole Panth into Naamdharis.

Find a mainstream Sikh friend if you can't hack his beliefs.

There is nothing new about people claiming to be Sikhs, or claiming the Gurgaddi carried on. You seem to have something of an obsession.

[sikhni777]

3 hours ago, simran345 said:

Yes that was a pretty stupid statement. How can anybody judge on who japs Naam or not? Where are you getting this nonsense from?

When I was in school, there was a naam dhari girl who woke up at 4am to do the nitnem. I did not even know what nitnem is. I woke up at 11.00 am in the holidays. I learnt about nitnem much later at the age of 12. 

At least their parents teach them about naam jap. Any naam dharis I have met have been doing a lot more naam jap than our own Ramghariye or who ever else I have met. So yes - that might be my own experience. 

Simran bhenji I am not judging them, I have merely stated that they do more naam jap than other people I have known. Their parents teach them more than our parents are bothered to teach us. We just stumble upon the path if we are lucky enough and learn else we just live in maya and moh.