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TheeTurbanator

If I follow a Human Guru, but respect the Guru Granth Sahib as also a Guru, then am I a Sikh?

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If I follow human Gurus after Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and I believe that he gave the Guruship to others. I still respect the Granth Sahib, but I don’t follow it as a final Guru.  

Am I still considered a Sikh according to Gurbani? Is there anything in Gurbani saying I can’t be a Sikh? 

Serious question 

Edited by TheeTurbanator

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Not sure but this video might help:

 

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20 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

If I follow human Gurus after Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and I believe that he gave the Guruship to others. I still respect the Granth Sahib, but I don’t follow it as a final Guru.  

Am I still considered a Sikh according to Gurbani? Is there anything in Gurbani saying I can’t be a Sikh? 

Serious question 

Naamdharis are not gurus, end of

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7 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Naamdharis are not gurus, end of

That was rather simple wasn't it. Lol

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37 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Naamdharis are not gurus, end of

I know, but thats not what the Namdharis think. They believe in the SGGSJ as the Guru, but not the final Guru. My question is that can someone not believe in SGGSJ as the final Guru and be defined as a "Sikh" according to Bani? 

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23 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I know, but thats not what the Namdharis think. They believe in the SGGSJ as the Guru, but not the final Guru. My question is that can someone not believe in SGGSJ as the final Guru and be defined as a "Sikh" according to Bani? 

no.

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2 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I know, but thats not what the Namdharis think. They believe in the SGGSJ as the Guru, but not the final Guru. My question is that can someone not believe in SGGSJ as the final Guru and be defined as a "Sikh" according to Bani? 

Do you want to become naamdhari? If not then what is it too you?

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3 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

That was rather simple wasn't it. Lol

Yes it was, no point in beating around the bush

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Naam is the one that defines mukti. A Guru is the one who guides you towards the naam. It is your choice whether you want to respect your Guru or not.  

Naamdharis jap naam more than SGGS believers. At the end of your life, your Guru is supposed to come and deliver you. 

Shabad is the Guru. If you jap naam then naam will deliver you.  Their Guru helps them jap naam and that is what is more important for them.  

People are allowed to follow different paths to the same destination.  Who are we to judge them if we ourselves do not follow the words of our Guru - SGGS - Which forbids us to judge others. Hum nahi chan-ge bhurha nahi koi.

So the tables turn on us - which of us follow the teachings of their Gurus better? 

There have been other Gurus in the past before our ten Gurus.  So was mukti not available then? Yes it was. It is all upto the devotion of the devotee. You can pray to a stone like Bhagat dhanna jut and God will still come and save you.  So devotion is the more important aspect here. Look at yourself deeply and leave others alone.

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2 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I know, but thats not what the Namdharis think. They believe in the SGGSJ as the Guru, but not the final Guru. My question is that can someone not believe in SGGSJ as the final Guru and be defined as a "Sikh" according to Bani? 

you cannot believe Dasmesh Pita ji then how are able to claim belief in the Jot of Guru Nanak Dev ji ? If you cannot obey Guru Nanak Dev ji's jot then how are you a sikh? Guru Nanak Dev ji said This is your Guru forever there will be no other dehdhari Guru literally and they choose another ...so on all levels they are being hypocrites

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Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji 🙏🏻🌸🌼

Edited by simran345
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1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Do you want to become naamdhari? If not then what is it too you?

NO, not trying to become a Naamdhari, I just have a Naamdhari friend who keeps insisting that he is a Sikh even tho he follows other gurus. 

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2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

 

Naamdharis jap naam more than SGGS believers. 

 

That’s a pretty stupid statement. You just ignored all the Sikhs who do jap Naam. 

You also ignore the fact that it’s easy to keep a small tight kit community on the same path, but as they grow you will eventually start to lose control. If I get 50 of my friends together, and get them to all follow the same thing, it will be easier to make them do something compared to if I got 50,000. A’s “Naamdharis” grow, they will lose control. 

Recently, one of their fake gurus died without appointing a successor, and it caused a civil war. Now there is a branch of them who are trying to infiltrate the mainstream Sikh population to spread their cult. 

 

 

2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

People are allowed to follow different paths to the same destination.  Who are we to judge them if we ourselves do not follow the words of our Guru - SGGS - Which forbids us to judge others. Hum nahi chan-ge bhurha nahi koi.

Sikhi is a universal path, and people of different identifications can reach the same destination, but the steps one must take are still the same, even if achieved in different ways. 

To truly become free, one requires a true Guru. Let me ask you this, are the 4 Gurus after Guru Gobind Singh Ji that the Naamdharis follow “true” Gurus? Is it truthful to lie about history? Is it truthful to history bani? Is it truethful to change Sikhi itself to fit your agenda? Because Naamdharis have done all of this. 

Sure the mainstream Sikhs might not be as specialized as Naamdharis are in certain asoects, but at least they follow the true Guru. 

 

2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

There have been other Gurus in the past before our ten Gurus.  So was mukti not available then?

Did one of the 14 Gurus Naamdharis claim to follow not specifically instruct Sikhs to follow the SGGSJ as the Guru? Did he not end the line of human Gurus? We’re Sikhs not given the tools to achieve Mukti in SGGSJ so that they needed 4 more Gurus? 

Edited by TheeTurbanator
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4 hours ago, Kira said:

no.

I was talking to a Naamdhari and he basically said that in Gurbani (not SRM) the definition of a Sikh is so inclusive that even a Muslim or Hindu could be a Sikh. He points to how a lot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s followers were Hindu and Muslims, and remained so, but were considered Sikhs. He says Sikh identity is only mainly for the Khalsa, and that according to Girbani, it’s possble to be a Sikh but follow human Gurus. 

Edited by TheeTurbanator

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2 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

I was talking to a Naamdhari and he basically said that in Gurbani (not SRM) the definition of a Sikh is so inclusive that even a Muslim or Hindu could be a Sikh. He points to how a lot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s followers were Hindu and Muslims, and remained so, but were considered Sikhs. He says Sikh identity is only mainly for the Khalsa, and that according to Girbani, it’s possble to be a Sikh but follow human Gurus. 

that's some mental gymnastics there , the definition of guru implies diksha  and then acceptance so what do they promise their dehdahri guru  as opposed to Guru Granth Sahib/Akal Purakh?

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