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dallysingh101

What does the next generation need to to do?

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On 1/2/2018 at 11:34 PM, sikhni777 said:

 

I am shocked at the ideas they have of how to present their hair. Of course Guru ji allows a bit of an error but when are we going to realise thatt its part of rehet to not go for that fancy haircut. God forbid apniya be seen in a bun... those are more for goriya these days who have longer hair than our lot and better morals sometimes though.

Given the situation today, if we are going to hone in on relatively petty points like how apneean are wearing their hair over other more pressing issues, I think we are only going to dig ourselves deeper into a mess. 

Edited by dallysingh101

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23 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I wouldn't know but I guess contacting the Imperial War Museum might be a good start? They might be able to help direct you to the right place. 

That being said, if we don't get over this fetish of serving as sepoys in foreign armies our lot are never going to grow an independent spine. 

Cheers.

I mainly wanna find out as I'm making a family tree. No fetish here!

Edited by MrDoaba

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13 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

No one is suggesting anyone do that. Just simply open your mind up to the reality of our ancestors using certain plant based psychotropic drinks for various reasons without any hoo-ha. They obviously weren't 'useless junkies' as they managed to pull off political, social and military objectives that really were astounding. 

Maharajah Ranjit Singh is a brilliant example. I mean, by the account of his own Romanian doctor, he took a little dose of opium daily and it didn't affect his ability to create a prosperous, modern, superpower state. Kavi Santokh who wrote the now classic work Suraj Prakash was also maligned for his use of opium by the British and members of the Singh Sabha movement. Our people's hypocrisy and confusion on the matter is astounding because his (kavi Santokh's) work is still used extensively in Gurdwara katha today. There are a number of references of highly respected Singh Shaheeds taking (cannabis infused) 'sukha-nidhaan' in Sikh sources like Bhangu's Panth Prakash - let alone in independent accounts from early Europeans who were spying on the Sikh kingdom. The earliest reference I found of Khalsa opium use was in Sainapati's Sri Gursobha, which is telling, because it is purportedly a work contemporary to dasmesh pita himself by a kavi of his darbar, so if that account is true, the use of such substances have a very early provenance and wasn't some 'later corruption' as some zealots like to make out. 

It says a lot that the descendants of our people (i.e. many of us) are now in some sort of denial or disbelief or even outright angry about these things. This all ties in with the British imposed conservatism I mentioned earlier in my opinion. 

Before I say anything, I should mention that I am not promoting the use of psychoactives (unless you've had a long day or need a pick-me-up or are sick and tired of pressing the bored button).

It's funny you should mention the use of opium, because many would assume the users would have been zoned out or stoned so to speak. When I first found out that the effects were actually to the contrary, I was extremely surprised. The stereotype of an amli wasn't entirely true. There are many opiate compounds which have a stimulant effect. This would have been extremely useful in the examples above. Such as in, as you said political, social, and military objectives/tactics, and basically everything required of an effective leader. As well as in collating information, fact gathering, writing, proof reading, and all the work of a Kavi/writer. Dare I say it may have been useful in battle too? I had always wondered why people who work long hours or do hard labour/tedious work take it. Many moons ago, I tried opium tea - needless to say, I wish I had known at the time, of the actual effects lol.

As for Sukha, I can almost imagine why this would have been used if these Singhs were really prepared for Shaheedi. There's no doubt cannabis can give you a sense of rhythm and fluidity (right amount, right strain), so if one was trained in Shastar Vidya, was not afraid of death, had their dyaan on Gurbani, they would literally become a killing machine, in theory. Having said this, it may be hard to replicate the exact type and level of intoxication these Singhs would have experienced due to the obvious changes/variables in cannabis production. I wonder if there's an exact recipe out there?

I think the old Indian classifcation system was unique in regards to psychoactives. It wasn't as simple as "drugs are bad, stay away" type of thing. In fact I think the west is catching on now to what the east believed donkeys years ago. Plus we have the Ayurvedic system, which cannabis and opiates are a part of. Alcohol is too but in very very rare circumstances and under strict supervision as it's not particularly useful when ingested. Cannabis and opiates have beneficial practical applications and effects depending on the situation, and are not in most cases, harmful when used in controlled conditions (as they would have been).

As always, unless you have an absolutely solid reason to take them, there's no need. And some justifications are downright silly although I personally do not have a problem with Nihangs using it today. If you do, please don't post it here, go and tell them.

If you are objective about the whole thing, and actually know a thing or two about psychotropic pharmacopoeia as well as Indic medical, spiritual, and for all intents and purposes genuine practical usage attitudes towards certain substances, then it's not really hard to imagine. No one feels bad popping a few codeine pills or sees it at breaking maryada. And before anyone says "it's medicine", well all pharmaceuticals are not for pain relief believe it or not, they have other uses, uses which are not recreational either; enhance rather than attenuate.

Edited by MrDoaba

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10 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Given the situation today, if we are going to hone in on relatively petty points like how apneean are wearing their hair over other more pressing issues, I think we are only going to dig ourselves deeper into a mess. 

Kim Jong-un did this/does this!

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16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Given the situation today, if we are going to hone in on relatively petty points like how apneean are wearing their haioln over other more pressing issues, I think we are only going to dig ourselves deeper into a mess. 

So hide the truth and kewep buttering them. If they had been taught as children, they would adhere to basic rehet better. So men can have dastar and patke and ladies a fancy haircut denying their Involvement In any deeper religious beliefs or practices.

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To me it does not seem like a petty issue. For me that is where all deeper religion starts from.  If you have understood sikhi and watched chaar sahibzadhe,  you would feel guilty next time you went for that haircut.  People gave their lives for your religion and you throw away your hair. 

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10 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

So hide the truth and kewep buttering them. If they had been taught as children, they would adhere to basic rehet better. So men can have dastar and patke and ladies a fancy haircut denying their Involvement In any deeper religious beliefs or practices.

It's not hiding the truth. It's accepting reality as it is. Fact: People have haircuts in our qaum. It's not their fault they have one, nor is it their fault they weren't taught as children. There are plenty of mone who have pyaar and sharda for Sikhi more than some Amritdharis - having kes doesn't automatically make you a good person or a dharmic banda.

When the time is right they will keep it. Do you really believe every single Sikh was Kesdhari in the days of old?

10 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

To me it does not seem like a petty issue. For me that is where all deeper religion starts from.  If you have understood sikhi and watched chaar sahibzadhe,  you would feel guilty next time you went for that haircut.  People gave their lives for your religion and you throw away your hair. 

Yes it might be for you but not for the majority. Loll are you really trying to make people base their religious convictions on a film??? As someone who was a mona for many years keeping kes was not my priority and it's not for most who are interested in Sikhi. Forcing people doesn't work, and guilt tripping them by saying "People gave their lives for your religion and you throw away your hair" defo doesn't!

This is exactly the mentality which pushes people away. And I'm happy to say that a lot of people who had this soch are moving away from it, even some of the most kattar people around don't push this propaganda anymore. It alienates people and is detrimental.

When I decided to keep my kes, I wasn't told to, nor was I pressured into it or guilt tripped. I did sangat with the most chardikala Singh from Taksal I have ever met, he has dedicated his life to Sikhi, to bring Sikhi to the masses, and in our last meeting all he did was point at his own dastaar and say "eda dhyaan kar", that's it!!! He didn't mention kes once but I knew exactly what he meant, and he said it with so much pyaar I accepted it there and then - true pyaar is one nishaani of a Gursikh.

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12 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

It's not hidage truth. It iss accepting rnotaeality as it is. Fact: People have haircuts in our qaum. It's not their fault they have one, nor is it their fault they weren't taught as children. There are plenty of mone who have pyaar and sharda for Sikhi more than some Amritdharis - having kes doesn't automatically make you a good person or a dharmic banda.

When the time is right they will keep it. Do you really believe every single Sikh was Kesdhari in the days of old?

Yes it might be for you but not for the majority. Loll are you really trying to make people base their religious convictions on a film??? As someone who was a mona for many years keeping kes was not my priority and it's not for most who are interested in Sikhi. Forcing people doesn't work, and guilt tripping them by saying "People gave their lives for your religion and you throw away your hair" defo doesn't!

This is exactly the mentality which pushes people away. And I'm happy to say that a lot of people who had this soch are moving away from it, even some of the most kattar people around don't push this propaganda anymore. It alienates people and is detrimental.

When I decided to keep my kes, I wasn't told to, nor was I pressured into it or guilt tripped. I did sangat with the most chardikala Singh from Taksal I have ever met, he has dedicated his life to Sikhi, to bring Sikhi to the masses, and in our last meeting all he did was point at his own dastaar and say "eda dhyaan kar", that's it!!! He didn't mention kes once but I knew exactly what he meant, and he said it with so much pyaar I accepted it there and then - true pyaar is one nishaani of a Gursikh.

Thats exactly my point? Why people have not managed to create that much shardha. Whose weakness Is It?

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If you have a belief you stick to it.  But when you see people doing more Kirtan and being more devoted yhan yourself and then the next year you meet them and they have a blatant bob cut hanging around their neck like a sword- sorry thats how I was thinking about it. 

Well I got puzzled a number of times.  I am talking about people with lots of devotion and pyaar such that you envy them. Then they change their roop the next few months.  Sorry but my upbringing had the importance of kesh. I had to trim after getting typhoid but not for a blatant hair cut. 

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