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superkaur

whats going on with UK nihungs these days?

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15 minutes ago, NonExistant said:

Yeah you're right. The main lesson is that we should learn to protect ourselves from doing anti-gurmat actions and live in fear. If we live in fear, then we will never do anything like this.

 

I don't know if I'd word it like that. That sounds like Sharia Law.

Such scaremongering doesn't work.

How about teaching people to use their buddhi. Teaching them ithiaas. Reminding them of the high moral character and conduct that Sikhs upheld even in the worst of conditions.

And the comparison to Japanese soldiers and the way they treated Chinese and Korean women is not the same as what went down in France.

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5 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

I don't know if I'd word it like that. That sounds like Sharia Law.

Such scaremongering doesn't work.

How about teaching people to use their buddhi. Teaching them ithiaas. Reminding them of the high moral character and conduct that Sikhs upheld even in the worst of conditions.

And the comparison to Japanese soldiers and the way they treated Chinese and Korean women is not the same as what went down in France.

Yeah. Basically we need to learn to use our brains and not do dumb things.

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20 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

I don't know if I'd word it like that. That sounds like Sharia Law.

Such scaremongering doesn't work.

How about teaching people to use their buddhi. Teaching them ithiaas. Reminding them of the high moral character and conduct that Sikhs upheld even in the worst of conditions.

And the comparison to Japanese soldiers and the way they treated Chinese and Korean women is not the same as what went down in France.

Maybe we need to do what Bhai Fauja Singh did. Approach him with compassion and forgive him for his actions. Then after,  we will do ardaas for him and get a hukamnama from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 

Then we should make a movie. The main character will be this guy and at the end he realises his mistakes and becomes a mahapurakh/honorable singh. 😃👍👍

Do u think this is a good idea? I do.

Edited by NonExistant

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2 hours ago, monatosingh said:

Um

I don't think killing is the answer for that.

it is what the standing orders were during Guru ji's time also , no sikh was permitted to put daag on khalsa's paag/Guru Pita ji's paag

If only people thought that way they would shut down the filth mongers , and give jawaab to astray people

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50 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

I don't know if I'd word it like that. That sounds like Sharia Law.

Such scaremongering doesn't work.

How about teaching people to use their buddhi. Teaching them ithiaas. Reminding them of the high moral character and conduct that Sikhs upheld even in the worst of conditions.

And the comparison to Japanese soldiers and the way they treated Chinese and Korean women is not the same as what went down in France.

do you even realise just how unique we are on the face of the planet that our enemies praised our refrain from attacking women and children . every army in history until guru ji used rape as a reward and diversion for troops ..in fact these it is used as a weapon widely. Yes Guru Pita ji set the bar ultra high for a reason

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50 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

do you even realise just how unique we are on the face of the planet that our enemies praised our refrain from attacking women and children . every army in history until guru ji used rape as a reward and diversion for troops ..in fact these it is used as a weapon widely. Yes Guru Pita ji set the bar ultra high for a reason

Who said anything about rape?

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I'm talking about uniqueness : we don't use (extramarital affairs/war time affairs), we don't abuse(rape/enslavement) , we don't murder (attack unarmed/innocents)...all these are marks of the Khalsa Character and thus going against any is equally bad .

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11 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I'm talking about uniqueness : we don't use (extramarital affairs/war time affairs), we don't abuse(rape/enslavement) , we don't murder (attack unarmed/innocents)...all these are marks of the Khalsa Character and thus going against any is equally bad .

I like how you lumped those all together.

You must be having a laugh if you think extramarital affairs are equally as bad as the others and deserves the death penalty. A punishment yes, but execution...I don't think so.

-Edit- Also you said use. How is it using? I'm not justifying it but it's not using; it wasn't their fault the women were promiscuous.

Edited by MrDoaba

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1 minute ago, MrDoaba said:

I like how you lumped those all together.

You must be having a laugh if you think extramarital affairs are equally as bad as the others and deserves the death penalty. A punishment yes, but execution...I don't think so.

you are assuming a lot too that the people tempted are married ...  what is wrong with keeping your sense of honour whereever you are ? I hear so many stupid people (women included) excusing extramarital affairs because of absence from home , really by that basis Men are no better than dogs or wild beasts?
If Guru ji has told you as his son ALL others are sisters, daughters mothers (vice versa for women)... is that not enough of a command ?

According to Guru ji ANY transgression is against sikhi , if you are having an affair you are Bijjhar kurehiti  a fate worse than death to be kicked out from Guru Pita ji's protection

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4 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

you are assuming a lot too that the people tempted are married ...  what is wrong with keeping your sense of honour whereever you are ? I hear so many stupid people (women included) excusing extramarital affairs because of absence from home , really by that basis Men are no better than dogs or wild beasts?
If Guru ji has told you as his son ALL others are sisters, daughters mothers (vice versa for women)... is that not enough of a command ?

According to Guru ji ANY transgression is against sikhi , if you are having an affair you are Bijjhar kurehiti  a fate worse than death to be kicked out from Guru Pita ji's protection

Sorry I should have been clearer, having sex outsides the confines of marriage. Either way the death penalty is a step too far. There is no basis for it.

You are assuming, that all these soldiers were Sarbloh Bibeki Mahapurkhs. No doubt Sikhi is what gave these soldiers their bravery and prowess on the battlefield, but you're not taking into consideration any of the variables.

First a bajjar kurehat deserves the death penalty, now it's worse than death. Make your mind up.

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From what I know where there is temptation then you will have a greater chance to stray from righteousness and Sikhi so better to remove yourself from such situations so that negative situations dont occuar.

He is a handsome singh and no doubt alot of women probably has come on to him in past and now even probably. And for a few years now he obviously has been hanging around the 3H0 new age yoga crowd and from there he got a liberal hippy mindset and thus it led him into temptation.

Had he stuck around with good strong solid sangat and had more time devoted to his wife and family he would think less about dancing around like a fool with yogi bhajans cultist 3HO yoga girls or getting off with them.

This kinda case shows us that even the most religious looking people lose their fear and respect for Waheguru when they fall into the traps of the manmukh selfish mind and 5 vices.

It is far easier to stray to the wrong path in life in a mixed religious or a liberal godless society. It is also far easier in the modern world now to get caught cheating also with all these media scandals coming out. Video evidence is far harder to disprove than hearsay from next mans rumour or gossip.

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3 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

I did.

It's just, well, a little difficult to take any moral lessons from an anecdote which advocates executing someone for a misdeed, which granted, goes against tenets of the faith, but in no way warrants a shoot on sight policy.

Whilst I don't doubt the sant in question would've shot any transgressing Singh, I think we're judging his actions from our somewhat limited comprehension of spiritual matters. I'm not a sycophant who explains away the misdeeds of religious men, but in this case I can detect the logic in the sant's attempt at drilling this issue into his men. I don't know what that says about me, lol, but there it is. There's the old trope of the unforgiving, some might say cruel religious / spiritual instructor who undertakes his duties of instruction and discipline to extremes that normal people would find unpalatable, but then I don't think following the path is ever meant to be a walk in the park. Maybe there are some things that are beyond our understanding of good and evil.   

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Whilst I don't doubt the sant in question would've shot any transgressing Singh, I think we're judging his actions from our somewhat limited comprehension of spiritual matters. I'm not a sycophant who explains away the misdeeds of religious men, but in this case I can detect the logic in the sant's attempt at drilling this issue into his men. I don't know what that says about me, lol, but there it is. There's the old trope of the unforgiving, some might say cruel religious / spiritual instructor who undertakes his duties of instruction and discipline to extremes that normal people would find unpalatable, but then I don't think following the path is ever meant to be a walk in the park. Maybe there are some things that are beyond our understanding of good and evil.   

I see what you mean. I myself am not doubting people who, as you say, may be unforgiving and cruel religious/spiritual instructors; a great many personailites have been born by following the Mat laid out for them by these very kinds of people. And yes drilling the threat of extreme reprimands can and does work but in this case there is no basis for it, at least IMO. If such a violation required as harsh a punishment (in Sikhi) as stated by the Sant, we would know about it, would we not? Even when Maharaja Ranjit Singh was pesh at Akal Takht for his various misdeeds, he wasn't going to be executed.

My words will probably be twisted so I'll try to be as clear as possible. We have to take into account the circumstances, the time, and the place. A few thoughts; these soldiers were not fighting in Dharam Yudh per se, they had no Dharmic leadership, many were coerced into joining the war, the state of Sikhi by then was already diluted/meddled with by the British to suit the British - we have no idea if these men had the foundations of conduct we expect them to live up as Puratan Sikhs did. Like I said before their bravado and prowess was down to Sikhi, but their military training and sense of morality was not necessarily guided by Sikhi. European women were known for practically jumping on foreign soldiers. It's easy to say this and that, but lets keep in mind these were, more often than not, simple folk in a bizarre foreign land where people exhibited bizarre behaviour which they were not accustomed to seeing so openly e.g promiscuous behaviour by women who I'm assuming, these men perceived to be rather beautiful. We must take into the account the state of the Panth and Sikhi at the time as well as the homeland. And secondly the nature of the war, all that preceded it, all that it entailed, and all that ensued.

While I have the utmost respect for these soldiers, we seem to be making the assumption that they were ALL prime examples of Gursikhs with uchi suchi jeevans.

Having said all this, obviously there were many instances of exemplary soldiers through whom Sikhi was shining.

Maybe some things are beyond our understanding of good and evil but I think we should cut them some slack given all the facets of the majority of these mens' lives.

Edited by MrDoaba

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