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S1ngh

Sikhs and celebration?

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Are there any difference of birth/death programs that we keep in our dharam? We do akhand patth and I don’t see any difference as they all are same. Gurbani, kirtan, katha, langar. Only difference is the end part of the ardas which highlights the program. So there is no difference between happy/sad?

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vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Not really sure.. When someones born, a lot people usually gift sweets. During sri guru nanak dev jis kartik occasion a lot of people light divas in my city's gurdwara ji. vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

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http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Dukh_Sukh

The link above highlights the gaining of sukh and dhukh. 

The sakhi of Bhai Randhir Singh Ji also shows us how our karams have to be completed before we merge into Waheguru. 

There is another sakhi which I will try to find which shows how a Gurmukh had his son married one day and buried the next day without any change in emotions. I dont remember exactly who that was. 

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13 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

 

There is another sakhi which I will try to find which shows how a Gurmukh had his son married one day and buried the next day without any change in emotions. I dont remember exactly who that was. 

Yes, I remember hearing this sakhi. I am pretty sure I heard it in recording of salok mahalla nava by bhai surinder singh jodhpuri. I will try to find it. 

Edited by TaksalDaSingh9771

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53 minutes ago, TaksalDaSingh9771 said:

Yes, I remember hearing this sakhi. I am pretty sure I heard it in recording of salok mahalla nava by bhai surinder singh jodhpuri. I will try to find it. 

I think It Is bhai bhagtu.

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21 hours ago, S1ngh said:

Are there any difference of birth/death programs that we keep in our dharam? We do akhand patth and I don’t see any difference as they all are same. Gurbani, kirtan, katha, langar. Only difference is the end part of the ardas which highlights the program. So there is no difference between happy/sad?

If you read Gurbani carefully, gurmat wants us to rise above dukh sukh of in all phases life. (practically only intense naam abhiyaas is what can make us numb to the ups and downs of life).

If you have done sangat of soojvaan gursikhs. You will realize the shabads sung in keertan to SatGuroo are usually always related to the occasion. In sadness, praising vahiguroo and accepting his bhana and in happiness thanking him etc.

 

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So, when we say - shaheedi month December - ppl say refrain from doing any happy event. This trend is picking up. Are we wrong?

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7 hours ago, S1ngh said:

So, when we say - shaheedi month December - ppl say refrain from doing any happy event. This trend is picking up. Are we wrong?

I don’t think we are wrong. Shaheedi is not to celebrate.. do we celebrate when a beloved one dies in our family? If someone dies in jan or feb that year we don’t even celebrate Diwali or any other festival no marriages nothing that whole year. Shaheedi of our Mata pita and beloved brothers is not to celebrate.. we should actually show gratitude by following sikhi in true manner and be a true sikh..  like there’s some people who are changing their religion for sake of money they are converting into Christianity.. right. So disappointed with this.. and in gurudwaras they serve kheer/jalebi on these days that needs to be stop as well. Only simple langer daal and roti should be served.. 

Edited by Kaur72
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24 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

I don’t think we are wrong. Shaheedi is not to celebrate.. do we celebrate when a beloved one dies in our family? If someone dies in jan or feb that year we don’t even celebrate Diwali or any other festival no marriages nothing that whole year. Shaheedi of our Mata pita and beloved brothers is not to celebrate.. we should actually show gratitude by following sikhi in true manner and be a true sikh..  like there’s some people who are changing their religion for sake of money they are converting into Christianity.. right. So disappointed with this.. and in gurudwaras they serve kheer/jalebi on these days that needs to be stop as well. Only simple langer daal and roti should be served.. 

What about on Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shaheedi Divas?

I'm sure I've heard that Bhai Jinda & Bhai Sukha handed out mithayi when they received their death sentences.

The whole thing is matter of perception.

Depending on how you look at, and if you are thankful as you say we should be, there's nothing wrong with celebrating. What better way to mark shaheedi month by saying "oye saaleyo we're still around, and Chardi Kala!!!". In this month we should display Miri-Piri in whatever way we can to thank Maharaaj. After all They made this sacrifice for Sikhi and us so that we would still be around today! Imagine how positive it would be if people said to themselves "this is the month that some of the most important figures of their Dharam became Shaheed and look at them, they're in such high spirits...they haven't given up one bit!!"

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I strongly believe that we have no special days. Gurpurabs and other historical days only serve the purpose of the reminder of our history. Dure to so many wars and deaths and genocides that happened in our history, everyday possible is sad day. Gurbani says that we should lift ourself from these worldly happy/sadness circle (also pointed by few above). We are also not meant to    be attached with family relationships as they are temporary and a maya. 

When we keep akhand paat for either happy or sad event, I don’t see much difference in the programs except humans emotions. Guru sahib ji or rehat does not specifically say that we should remember something at the particular day. Rememberance events are needed but there is no particular protocol that we should not plan anything certain dates. As per Gurbani, our souls should stay neutral - nether happy nor sad. This is how our guru sahibs lived their life and told us to do the same. 

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1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

What about on Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shaheedi Divas?

Do I have to mention every single shaheedi?

 

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

What better way to mark shaheedi month by saying "oye saaleyo we're still around, and Chardi Kala!!!".

How can u say Khalsa Panth is in chardi kalah. Nihangs and some other Sikhs are converting into Christianity.. this is what chardi kalah is for u? and there are Sikhs here who are “celebrating” this day with songs on and with no emotions in their heart and going to Anandpur Sahib but u can tell they’ve no emotion or a feel of gratitude and everyone is included in this not only youngsters. I don’t support this kind of celebrations.. these days are for remembrance. im proud of what they did for us but that doesn’t mean we should only think about celebrating it and not think about the other side how mehngi sikhi we got on which cost. Of course they are in high spirits don’t denying anything but still think about it with slightly different perspective as well.

Edited by Kaur72

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48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

Do I have to mention every single shaheedi?

My point was that technically we celebrate Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shaheedi, do we not?

48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

Nihangs and some other Sikhs are converting into Christianity.. this is what chardi kalah is for u?

This is a seperate issue.

48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

and there are Sikhs here who are “celebrating” this day with songs on and with no emotions in their heart and going to Anandpur Sahib but u can tell they’ve no emotion or a feel of gratitude and everyone is included in this not only youngsters. 

I have not seen any such thing. Are you sure they're not celebrating Prakash Utsav?

48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

 I don’t support this kind of celebrations

Neither do I. I didn't say this is how we should celebrate it. In fact you seemed to have missed the entire crux of my post.

48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

im proud of what they did for us but that doesn’t mean we should only think about celebrating it and not think about the other side how mehngi sikhi we got on which cost.

We all are proud. All I was saying is we should celebrate it, and the other side of it by displaying Miri-Piri however we can. Be it Nagar Kirtans, Jorh Mele, Gatka (and Jhatka) Displays, practising and demonstrating the concept of Degh and Tegh - it's showing who we are. And showing we are Chardi Kala. Very loud and proud. Instead of being sad and down, and in state of avsource. If anything we should cry tears of joy that we are so blessed to have such a Father, who's actions are unparalleled throughout the history of this world.

Plus people would be sh!t scared of Singhs and Singhnis who are celebrating Shaheedi and death. It will teach them not to mess with us. I personally wouldn't mess with a bunch of people who loudly sing hymns and show their martial prowess while commemorating Shaheedi and death. And also feeding a bunch of people. It would capture our essence.

I think Maharaaj would be happy with this. That His Sikhs are practising and displaying the very thing He gave up his family for.

48 minutes ago, Kaur72 said:

Of course they are in high spirits don’t denying anything but still think about it with slightly different perspective as well.

I know you are Phenji. I was just giving my two pence worth. Bhul chuk maaf karna jio if I said anything wrong.

Edited by MrDoaba

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4 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

This is a seperate issue.

How is this is a separate issue? Today we are talking about shaheedi and for what they gave their heads because they didn’t accept Islam.. I don’t think it’s a separate issue. 

 

4 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

I was saying is we should celebrate it, and the other side of it by displaying Miri-Piri however we can. Be it Nagar Kirtans, Jorh Mele, Gatka (

And yes this is what we should be doing rather thn taking sikhi for granted.. I know the positive side that ur talking about.. that’s included when u remember the day,  how Aurangzeb tortured chote shaibzade.. the tears that come down from the eyes are of proud and  grief  at the same time but not joy.. not for me.. and I don’t think we need to scare anyone or anyone should get scared from us because we celebrate shaheedi diwas that’s not what our gurus taught us.. to scare anyone.. scared and feeling of proud in a positive way are two separate things.. thanks ji

Edited by Kaur72

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On 25/12/2017 at 5:26 AM, MrDoaba said:

My point was that technically we celebrate Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shaheedi, do we not?

I don't think we do to be honest.

I would say that we commemorate it, or at least that's what I think we do. To say that we celebrate it carries the wrong kind of connotations for this pivotal moment in Sikh history, and is imho inaccurate.

The whole month of June in particular is shahadat da mahina. In this month, I salute the heroic nature of their selfless sacrifices, their defiance of state tyranny, and their defence of Gurbani and Guru Panth. I remember Pancham Patshah Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Banda Singh Ji Bahadur, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, Bhai Amrik Singh Ji, General Subheg Singh Ji and the 1984 Shaheeds. I pay respect to the way they all stared down the barrel of death without fear.

I don't however think I could honestly say that I celebrate the shahadat of my Guru Ji or thousands of innocent pilgrims. To say that we celebrate these events, in the manner that others might celebrate festivals, weddings and birthdays (although I know you're not suggesting that), is a bit of a stretch. We don't necessarily have to be sad, but one can vow vengeance on one's enemies.

I think the best way to really "celebrate" all the Shaheeds is to remember them, never forget them, bow down to their selfless sacrifices, and disseminate as much information as we can about them so that we can prepare and train current and future generations for the difficulties that lie ahead, in order that they can follow in the footsteps of the Shaheeds and their sacrifices that we commemorate.

Edited by jashb

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1 hour ago, jashb said:

I don't think we do to be honest.

I would say that we commemorate it, or at least that's what I think we do. To say that we celebrate it carries the wrong kind of connotations for this pivotal moment in Sikh history, and is imho inaccurate.

Yeah I get what you're saying.  I was referring to Chabeel Day - one (who isn't already informed) wouldn't assume this is a commemoration of martyrdom. If that makes sense. It's not a typical way you would "celebrate" Shaheedi.

Comes down to semantics I guess, the word celebrate has wide connotations. I didn't mean celebrate in the sense like "jashan manauna". Although you could take it to mean a celebration of revolution.

One thing I have noticed is a difference in emotions/reactions to majority of Shaheedi's compared with those that took place in December. This may be unrelated to the points I made though.

 

 

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      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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