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4 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Traffic cones could work well in theory!

Well, if you tie a keski/bunga like Nihangs, and depending on the length of your kes and method of tying, I'm sure you could achieve the pointy look. Why don't you try it?

I'm not sure how bamboo or a shastar would work. One whack on your dastaar and it would go flying. No shock absorption.

And aren't panj shastar there ready to be used if need be? No use having it wrapped up inside.

I have tried, the keski just keeps falling flat because there is no solid to prevent it from falling flat.

The dumalla will go flying, that actually made laugh hehe. So basically when they put the shastar or whatever in, the get the end width of the keski and tie it like a hankerchief and put it tight.

About the panj shastars, not all of them will be at use. I mainly keep 4 on my body and the 5th in my dumalla.

The 5th one for me is a simple dumalla shastar.

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8 minutes ago, monatosingh said:

I have tried, the keski just keeps falling flat because there is no solid to prevent it from falling flat.

The dumalla will go flying, that actually made laugh hehe. So basically when they put the shastar or whatever in, the get the end width of the keski and tie it like a hankerchief and put it tight.

About the panj shastars, not all of them will be at use. I mainly keep 4 on my body and the 5th in my dumalla.

The 5th one for me is a simple dumalla shastar.

How are you tying the keski though?

I sort of see what you mean. Let me see if I can find out from someone, and I'll get back to you.

Yeah I get the panj shastar maryada, my point was that if you do need to use it, there's no use having it wrapped up in 10m of cloth. The whole point is that it should be ready to be deployed as and when needed.

Edited by MrDoaba

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Just now, MrDoaba said:

Yeah I get the panj shastar maryada, my point was that if you do need to use it, there's no use having it wrapped up in 10m of cloth. The whole point is that it should be ready to be deployed as and when needed.

Well anything can be a shastar really, the word itself means weapon.

Your key can be a shastar, one stab in the eye and boom the person has no eye.

The compass you use for your mathematics class can be used as a weapon, someone at my school got stabbed with one in the shoulder blade.

Your kara can even be used as defense. Someone punches you then block it with your kara and just like that they have no hand.

 

These are just modern day shastars though. 

Normally people would carry puratan shastars.

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38 minutes ago, monatosingh said:

I have tried, the keski just keeps falling flat because there is no solid to prevent it from falling flat.

Here is what I kind of meant by how do you tie your keski. I'm not sure of the right terminology here. First step I beliieve is the "bunga", then the keski, then finally the dastaar. I remember being told how Nihangs make it so pointy; the fabric becomes intertwined with your kes. Hope this helps.

 

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1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

Traffic cones could work well in theory!

Well, if you tie a keski/bunga like Nihangs, and depending on the length of your kes and method of tying, I'm sure you could achieve the pointy look. Why don't you try it?

I'm not sure how bamboo or a shastar would work. One whack on your dastaar and it would go flying. No shock absorption.

I could be wrong.

And aren't panj shastar there ready to be used if need be? No use having it wrapped up inside.

Better yet, ask @Singh123456777 , he'll know.

The panj shastars are symbolic here so no need to use them, even though you could. They are called kesan de shastar as well. Guru gobind singh ji used to keep one kard in his hair as well and that is shown at hazur sahib.

 

Nihangs of old and of today actually use two cloths for dumala. One is what makes the bunga and the other is the dumala part. There is actually no keski part in it, so thats why the bungas are different and not compressed and flat. Also if they used a keski it would hide the farla which cannot be hidden. 

What they do is use the bunga as the base and then wrap another dastar over the bunga and there you have it! 

7EFEFBAD-1B8E-444F-99A2-F212FC5EC749.jpeg

E7E11400-0F32-4B00-8E47-4A0295DCC9E5.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

The panj shastars are symbolic here so no need to use them, even though you could. They are called kesan de shastar as well. Guru gobind singh ji used to keep one kard in his hair as well and that is shown at hazur sahib.

 

Nihangs of old and of today actually use two cloths for dumala. One is what makes the bunga and the other is the dumala part. There is actually no keski part in it, so thats why the bungas are different and not compressed and flat. Also if they used a keski it would hide the farla which cannot be hidden. 

What they do is use the bunga as the base and then wrap another dastar over the bunga and there you have it!

You my friend, are turning out to be a treasure trove of information! Dhanvaad bro.

Cheers for correcting me on the shastar part. It makes sense, you know me and symbolism anyway!

I actually meant it in the case of a big shastar being used to make the "point" of the bunga as monatosingh was suggesting though. Seems a bit pointless having a huge talwar in there, if you catch my drift.

And where do you procure these high quality images from?

Edited by MrDoaba
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6 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

You my friend, are turning out to be a treasure trove of information! Dhanvaad bro.

Cheers for correcting me on the shastar part. It makes sense, you know me and symbolism anyway!

I actually meant it in the case of a big shastar being used to make the "point" of the bunga as monatosingh was suggesting though. Seems a bit pointless having a huge talwar in there, if you catch my drift.

And where do you procure these high quality images from?

Im not a treasure trove, the real treasures are in india in the Dal.

Guru sahib used to put this shastar in his kesh, this is at Hazur Sahib right now.

9310D533-42DD-4008-AE47-3B29C29B9585.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, monatosingh said:

@Singh123456777

Do you actually have to take amrit from Nihangs to be a nihang? Can't you just follow the rehat if do you actually have to register inside the dal.

Have to register officially. Get a Nihang licence.

Although there might be a provision which makes for some leeway in regards to people who take Amrit at Nihang Amrit Sanchars in the west.

Check with Niddar Singh. (y)

 

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58 minutes ago, monatosingh said:

@Singh123456777

Do you actually have to take amrit from Nihangs to be a nihang? Can't you just follow the rehat if do you actually have to register inside the dal.

No, it is nice if you take amrit from nihangs but to be a nihang it is not mandatory. Being a nihang is a state of mind; meaning you have to be not worried about your material self and be dedicated to the guru. 

But to be an offical nihang you can get a Nihang license(which is not available to everybody). The reason why the license was made was cause after 1984 there were a lot of fakes doing badnami of the bana so the jathedar then made it so that we have to register and carry licenses.

I have my nihang license btw.

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14 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Have to register officially. Get a Nihang licence.

Although there might be a provision which makes for some leeway in regards to people who take Amrit at Nihang Amrit Sanchars in the west.

Check with Niddar Singh. (y)

 

Please dont check with niddar singh, he is the opposite of what you want lol.

If you are in the uk i advise meeting with the group called Nihang Santhiya. If in Canada on the westcoast there are many Guru Nanak Dal singhs. If you are in the Seattle region you can meet with Giani Sher Singh Budha dal. If you are in the california region you can meet with Bhai Didar Singh Budha Dal and Mahakaal Baba Swarn Singh Harian Bela Dal. 

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3 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Please dont check with niddar singh, he is the opposite of what you want lol.

If you are in the uk i advise meeting with the group called Nihang Santhiya. If in Canada on the westcoast there are many Guru Nanak Dal singhs. If you are in the Seattle region you can meet with Giani Sher Singh Budha dal. If you are in the california region you can meet with Bhai Didar Singh Budha Dal and Mahakaal Baba Swarn Singh Harian Bela Dal. 

Lol. I know brother, I was joking. I do wanna go and check out his class one day though, just for observation.

So this Nihang Santhiya, is this like the Nihang Taksal?

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1 minute ago, MrDoaba said:

Lol. I know brother, I was joking. I do wanna go and check out his class one day though, just for observation.

So this Nihang Santhiya, is this like the Nihang Taksal?

Nihang santhiya is singhs who teach santhiya and also does jorh mele and programs etc. They did a whole 10 day dushera mahatah samagam which was awesome 

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      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
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      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
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      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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