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What would India be if the British never came?

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5 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

It would have been Sikh.

it would been all faiths, literate, numerate, artistically and musically rich . A major player in the world scene because of its GDP ...I don't think Kartar even remembers just how well administered the sikh kingdom was . Just swallowed the gorey propaganda hook, line and sinker

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I would hope that Khalsa empire would have been consolidated with the territories been gained. 

It would have expanded southward over the Sutlej towards Delhi as there would be no Cis Sutlej agreement with the Brits. The Khalsa Empire would have expanded into Sindh  (since there are significant Nanakpanthis in Sindh ). Khalsa Empire would have a seaport since Sindh is by the coast. 

This would mean that there would be a Khalsa Navy. 

With coastal trade links, Sikhi would expand across the Indian Ocean.

The Sikh population would be larger and I think more Hindus and Muslims would become Sikh.

There may have been potential conflict with the Russians as there would no Brits to act as a buffer with the Great Game.

With the Industrial Revolution in Europe and Meiji Restoration in Japan in the 1800's there may very well have been some kind of modernisation in industry with the Khalsa Empire. 

The Punjabi Sikh diaspora would be far smaller because there would be no British Empire to spread the  Punjabi Sikh population far and wide.

However, we would see Sikhi have a diverse flavour with many different ethnicities being Sikh.

In order for the Khalsa Empire to thrive, it would have to transform from being based on some monarchy into something very different. Maybe more panj pyareh orientated perhaps. 

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3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It would have expanded southward over the Sutlej towards Delhi as there would be no Cis Sutlej agreement with the Brits. The Khalsa Empire would have expanded into Sindh  (since there are significant Nanakpanthis in Sindh ). Khalsa Empire would have a seaport since Sindh is by the coast. 

Very incisive analysis, brother. Personally, I would say that all this would have happened even if the British had come. The only reason we lost the Anglo-Sikh war was treachery. If we had won the war (which I think we would have if Maharaja Ranjit Singh had put in appropriate governmental structures, like the Panj Piyare as head of state), then basically all you said would also have happened, only a few decades later.

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

With coastal trade links, Sikhi would expand across the Indian Ocean.

Yeah, that's how Islam is said to have spread (initially) to SE Asia and to the West coast of India.

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The Sikh population would be larger and I think more Hindus and Muslims would become Sikh.

Agree. Downtrodden "Hindus" would convert to Sikhism rather than Islam. And forcibly converted Muslims would see a route to revert from Islam, without having to adopt idol-worshipping or an unjust caste system.

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

With the Industrial Revolution in Europe and Meiji Restoration in Japan in the 1800's there may very well have been some kind of modernisation in industry with the Khalsa Empire. 

Right. To people who say we should be grateful to the British for bringing industrialization and railroads, I ask: Did Japan not have industry and railroads? So, yeah, we would have have Khalsa Rail.

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The Punjabi Sikh diaspora would be far smaller because there would be no British Empire to spread the  Punjabi Sikh population far and wide.

Good point. The reason our parents came to the West is because of lack of opportunities in our homeland. With a free and prosperous Sikh kingdom (or India generally), we would never have had to leave. (In fact, they came to us: Ventura, Avitable, MacDonald, etc.)

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58 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Very incisive analysis, brother. Personally, I would say that all this would have happened even if the British had come. The only reason we lost the Anglo-Sikh war was treachery. If we had won the war (which I think we would have if Maharaja Ranjit Singh had put in appropriate governmental structures, like the Panj Piyare as head of state), then basically all you said would also have happened, only a few decades later.

Yeah, that's how Islam is said to have spread (initially) to SE Asia and to the West coast of India.

Agree. Downtrodden "Hindus" would convert to Sikhism rather than Islam. And forcibly converted Muslims would see a route to revert from Islam, without having to adopt idol-worshipping or an unjust caste system.

Right. To people who say we should be grateful to the British for bringing industrialization and railroads, I ask: Did Japan not have industry and railroads? So, yeah, we would have have Khalsa Rail.

Good point. The reason our parents came to the West is because of lack of opportunities in our homeland. With a free and prosperous Sikh kingdom (or India generally), we would never have had to leave. (In fact, they came to us: Ventura, Avitable, MacDonald, etc.)

We would also have a far deeper presence in the Gangetic Plains. 

No British, no East India Company, no Purbia /Bihari army with no mutiny. 

The last remaining mughals would have been finished off a lot quicker.  Awadh,  Agra,  Lucknow would have fallen into Sikh hands. 

There would be a link of Sikhi stretching all the way to Patna. 

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8 hours ago, JSinghnz said:

Had it been well administered and Maharaja Ranjit Singh been a far sighted leader, it would have still been a Sikh kingdom.

 

Still? Most of India wasn't. Punjab/Sikh empire would have probably been well off. Rest of South Asia? Not so sure. 

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4 hours ago, BhForce said:

Very incisive analysis, brother. Personally, I would say that all this would have happened even if the British had come. The only reason we lost the Anglo-Sikh war was treachery. If we had won the war (which I think we would have if Maharaja Ranjit Singh had put in appropriate governmental structures, like the Panj Piyare as head of state), then basically all you said would also have happened, only a few decades later.

 

So where would one find 5 men who are pure Gurmakhs, AND able to handle the functions of an entire nation state? As well as be completely incorruptible. 

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5 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:
10 hours ago, BhForce said:

Very incisive analysis, brother. Personally, I would say that all this would have happened even if the British had come. The only reason we lost the Anglo-Sikh war was treachery. If we had won the war (which I think we would have if Maharaja Ranjit Singh had put in appropriate governmental structures, like the Panj Piyare as head of state), then basically all you said would also have happened, only a few decades later.

 

So where would one find 5 men who are pure Gurmakhs, AND able to handle the functions of an entire nation state? As well as be completely incorruptible.

Well, brother, that's why I said "head of state" above. So you'd only have to have the 5 be Gurmukhs. They would then select the head of government. They wouldn't have to do double duty as able to handle the functions of an entire state.

Kind of like the Queen of England.

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Although many of these assumptions seem plausible, they're written as a matter of fact and on the basis that every person who contributed to the expansion of a Sikh Empire was 'pure'. This is laughable. Good and bad exist everywhere so who is to say that treachery would not have occurred later during rule? What about potential conflict with other empires or european invaders? WWI & WWII?

Jealousy is part of human nature with ego the root of all evil. Just one person, king or army out of hundreds or thousands can plot against good, succeed and change destiny.

I don't think it would have been as hunky-dory as discussed above - there are far too many variables involved to even assume, in my opinion.

However, I strongly believe Panjab and some parts of Bharat/Hindustan would be not be in sattiaanaas now because of the chittia attvadia during their charaiee.

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13 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

So where would one find 5 men who are pure Gurmakhs, AND able to handle the functions of an entire nation state? As well as be completely incorruptible. 

Vishvaas and trust is what we need. We need to stop questioning everything specially questioning the jeevni and character of panj piyaray. Ranjit singh was advised by many to put panj piyarays as head of the kingdom and which he didn’t do it and we all suffered. We had Mahan leaders of those time such as alkali phoola singh, baba Bir singh and so on.

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