Jump to content
Guest 5Rbagi

JAGTAR SINGH FreeJaggi

Recommended Posts

Guest 5Rbagi

Gurfateh ji

I don't feel like we're doing enough for Jaggi. Petitioning and protesting isn't getting us anywhere. The protest in London could hardly be called a protest for a start. 400 people turn up. 1-2 cops. What sort of a protest is that when the police just let you get on with it, don't even bother showing up. Lol it's a joke. They know we're too complaisant. Everyone's contacting their MPs, only a handful have made any sort of statement...  3? 5 max? They just don't give a monkeys. Britain's relationship with india is way too important. Now more than ever post brexit. They won't do shtt to jeopardise it. It's all about trade deals. It was in 84, it still is now. We need to wake the F up.

So my question is, what can we do?! We need to up the ante. "Apan hathi apna, apay he kaaj savariye". With our own hands let us resolve our own affairs. Waheguruji nothing is being done. Our brothers rights are nonexistent. Heck the British high commission representives failed to show up to the second hearing. No one's batting an eyelid in the gov. I'm fed up with petitions. I'm fed up with begging. I'm fed up with "protests"/ gatherings. Back in the day we courted arrests. Everyone knew something was going down. It showed we meant business and were willing to put everything on the line to get what we wanted. What happened to our anakh? Our sovereign mentality?! Such a sad state of affairs. I'm done begging. I'm doing complying. Enough is enough. Hadn't got us anywhere. And if you're scared of media reports IDGAF. There's no such thing as bad publicity. Would you sit back and write a letter to your MP if your brother mother sister was in jaggis shoes? No. So wake up.

Pul chuk muaf ji.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kaur 2

VJKK VJKF

17 hours ago, Guest 5Rbagi said:

Gurfateh ji

I don't feel like we're doing enough for Jaggi. Petitioning and protesting isn't getting us anywhere. The protest in London could hardly be called a protest for a start. 400 people turn up. 1-2 cops. What sort of a protest is that when the police just let you get on with it, don't even bother showing up. Lol it's a joke. They know we're too complaisant. Everyone's contacting their MPs, only a handful have made any sort of statement...  3? 5 max? They just don't give a monkeys. Britain's relationship with india is way too important. Now more than ever post brexit. They won't do shtt to jeopardise it. It's all about trade deals. It was in 84, it still is now. We need to wake the F up.

So my question is, what can we do?! We need to up the ante. "Apan hathi apna, apay he kaaj savariye". With our own hands let us resolve our own affairs. Waheguruji nothing is being done. Our brothers rights are nonexistent. Heck the British high commission representives failed to show up to the second hearing. No one's batting an eyelid in the gov. I'm fed up with petitions. I'm fed up with begging. I'm fed up with "protests"/ gatherings. Back in the day we courted arrests. Everyone knew something was going down. It showed we meant business and were willing to put everything on the line to get what we wanted. What happened to our anakh? Our sovereign mentality?! Such a sad state of affairs. I'm done begging. I'm doing complying. Enough is enough. Hadn't got us anywhere. And if you're scared of media reports IDGAF. There's no such thing as bad publicity. Would you sit back and write a letter to your MP if your brother mother sister was in jaggis shoes? No. So wake up.

Pul chuk muaf Ji.

I am very proud of you veerji. You are being very righteous and compassionate to someone who is less fortunate. What do you plan to do next? If we do it together then it will be more powerful. You are right, the Sikh community especially in the UK is just sitting back and waiting for things to happen. We actually need to get up and do something. This task should be our seva:

ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
सभ दुनीआ आवण जाणीआ ॥३॥
Sabẖ ḏunī▫ā āvaṇ jāṇī▫ā. ||3||
All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3||
 
ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ
विचि दुनीआ सेव कमाईऐ ॥
vicẖ ḏunī▫ā sev kamā▫ī▫ai.
In the midst of this world, do seva,
 

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ
ता दरगह बैसणु पाईऐ ॥
Ŧā ḏargėh baisaṇ pā▫ī▫ai.
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.         Ang 26

VJKK VJKF!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Moose

I'm honestly surprised by the lack of concern on this forum about Jaggi. Maybe it's because he doesn't wear a turban and trims his beard?

While I like your spirit, I don't think threat and violence will get us anywhere and I don't think we've exhausted all avenues of protest. I've written to my MP. I live in a place where there aren't many Sikhs and my email is the only one of two my MP has got on the subject. I'm meeting him tomorrow to get him to ask Boris Johnson to #FreeJaggiNow.

Seriously impressed by the organisation that has gone into this campaign - pre-drafted letters, hashtags etc. It's protesting with one voice rather than acting like a unorganised mob. If we keep acting in a peaceful organised way, hopefully people will finally recognise us as a community rather than 'nutters with towels on their heads brandishing swords' as in one media portrayal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Guest Kaur 2 said:

VJKK VJKF

I am very proud of you veerji. You are being very righteous and compassionate to someone who is less fortunate. What do you plan to do next? If we do it together then it will be more powerful. You are right, the Sikh community especially in the UK is just sitting back and waiting for things to happen. We actually need to get up and do something. This task should be our seva:

ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
सभ दुनीआ आवण जाणीआ ॥३॥
Sabẖ ḏunī▫ā āvaṇ jāṇī▫ā. ||3||
All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3||
 
ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ
विचि दुनीआ सेव कमाईऐ ॥
vicẖ ḏunī▫ā sev kamā▫ī▫ai.
In the midst of this world, do seva,
 

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ
ता दरगह बैसणु पाईऐ ॥
Ŧā ḏargėh baisaṇ pā▫ī▫ai.
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.         Ang 26

VJKK VJKF!

you should make an account penji. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kaur 2

VJKK VJKF

3 hours ago, Kira said:

you should make an account penji. 

I forgot my password and then I reset it but nothing came up in my emails so...  

Sort of stuck now... can't access my account.:rofl

VJKK VJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guest Kaur 2 said:

VJKK VJKF

I forgot my password and then I reset it but nothing came up in my emails so...  

Sort of stuck now... can't access my account.:rofl

VJKK VJKF

make a new one :) no big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kaur 2

VJKK VJKF

1 hour ago, Kira said:

make a new one :) no big deal.

Another problem... I only have one email and I don't want to make another one

hehe :grin

VJKK VJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/11/2017 at 7:31 PM, Guest Moose said:

I'm honestly surprised by the lack of concern on this forum about Jaggi. Maybe it's because he doesn't wear a turban and trims his beard?

 

Don't think so. 

This website is not accessed much relative to number of Sikhs in the UK; this is true of Sikh forums online in general 

The Singh/Singhnis in prison for the General Brar incident and the Leicester guys-not any more online or otherwise support for them that I've seen compared to this case 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Don't think so. 

This website is not accessed much relative to number of Sikhs in the UK; this is true of Sikh forums online in general 

The Singh/Singhnis in prison for the General Brar incident and the Leicester guys-not any more online or otherwise support for them that I've seen compared to this case 

Brushed under the carpet. Out of sight out of mind. Pity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/11/2017 at 5:55 PM, Guest Kaur 2 said:

VJKK VJKF

I am very proud of you veerji. You are being very righteous and compassionate to someone who is less fortunate. What do you plan to do next? If we do it together then it will be more powerful. You are right, the Sikh community especially in the UK is just sitting back and waiting for things to happen. We actually need to get up and do something. This task should be our seva:

ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
सभ दुनीआ आवण जाणीआ ॥३॥
Sabẖ ḏunī▫ā āvaṇ jāṇī▫ā. ||3||
All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3||
 
ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ
विचि दुनीआ सेव कमाईऐ ॥
vicẖ ḏunī▫ā sev kamā▫ī▫ai.
In the midst of this world, do seva,
 

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ
ता दरगह बैसणु पाईऐ ॥
Ŧā ḏargėh baisaṇ pā▫ī▫ai.
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.         Ang 26

VJKK VJKF!

Please create an account. Pm me please

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kaur 2

VJKK VJKF

10 hours ago, S4NGH said:

Please create an account. Pm me please

I am trying to sort out my account at the moment but I can talk here :) 

VJKK VJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2017 at 12:19 AM, Guest 5Rbagi said:

Gurfateh ji

I don't feel like we're doing enough for Jaggi. Petitioning and protesting isn't getting us anywhere. The protest in London could hardly be called a protest for a start. 400 people turn up. 1-2 cops. What sort of a protest is that when the police just let you get on with it, don't even bother showing up. Lol it's a joke. They know we're too complaisant. Everyone's contacting their MPs, only a handful have made any sort of statement...  3? 5 max? They just don't give a monkeys. Britain's relationship with india is way too important. Now more than ever post brexit. They won't do shtt to jeopardise it. It's all about trade deals. It was in 84, it still is now. We need to wake the F up.

So my question is, what can we do?! We need to up the ante. "Apan hathi apna, apay he kaaj savariye". With our own hands let us resolve our own affairs. Waheguruji nothing is being done. Our brothers rights are nonexistent. Heck the British high commission representives failed to show up to the second hearing. No one's batting an eyelid in the gov. I'm fed up with petitions. I'm fed up with begging. I'm fed up with "protests"/ gatherings. Back in the day we courted arrests. Everyone knew something was going down. It showed we meant business and were willing to put everything on the line to get what we wanted. What happened to our anakh? Our sovereign mentality?! Such a sad state of affairs. I'm done begging. I'm doing complying. Enough is enough. Hadn't got us anywhere. And if you're scared of media reports IDGAF. There's no such thing as bad publicity. Would you sit back and write a letter to your MP if your brother mother sister was in jaggis shoes? No. So wake up.

Pul chuk muaf ji.

I disagree that the actions taken are useless. If anything the united front that we have shown have unnerved the Indian govt. To have questions asked in the British parliament stating that an British citizen has been tortured would have caused embarrassment to the Indian govt. The fact that Sikh leaders around the world like Jagmeet Singh criticising the treatment of Jagtar Singh Jaggi will have put more pressure on the GOI. 

Does that image look familar? No. it's not Jaggi but Jaswant Singh Azad and it's not from 2017 but  from 2012 when an elderly Sikh maningh Azad from Sunderland in UK was arrested and framed in Punjab with the same charges as Jaggi faces now. It took him 5 long years and it was only in July this year that he was finally cleared. 

1730537133.jpg

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/sunderland-shopkeeper-arrested-in-india-over-alleged-terrorism-and-gun-offences-1-5008858

Quote

Police in Jalandhar, where Mr Azad is being held, claim he was managing anti-government terrorist sleeper cells by providing them with money, networking and hideouts and used students to transfer the money. Secret services claim to have evidence of him meeting wanted terrorists in Pakistan. Police chief Gaurav Yadav alleges Mr Azad also has links to a Scottish-based group which funds outlawed Sikh militants.

Read more at: https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/sunderland-shopkeeper-arrested-in-india-over-alleged-terrorism-and-gun-offences-1-5008858

https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/07/26/bhai-daljit-singh-bittu-jaswant-singh-azad-acquitted-jalandhar-uapa-case/

Jaswant Singh Azad did not have British MPs asking questions about his treatment, he didn''t have Sikhs around the world rally to his support. This is the difference between 2012 and now. We are more united and we can carry out a well co-ordinated campaign for a fellow Sikh suffering in India. If you look back historically we have had prominent Sikhs not just tortured but murdered in Punjab and yet the Sikhs abroad did not even organise a protest. So I think we shouldn't dismiss what we have achieved in just a few weeks. That fat oaf Amarinder has pretty much turned all Sikhs abroad against him. Do you think he will be able to come to any western country now. If the Sikh organisations use the legal pathways that are available they could have him arrested when he places one step in a western country. We Sikhs should be using the same legal techniques that the Palestinians are using abroad where many Israeli politicians cannot come to some western countries as they could be arrested for abetting torture. 

Already images of the police dog who tortured Jaggi have been put on facebook. He is known to visit Canada and it should now be up to Sikh organisations to use the law in Canada so that the next time he steps foot in Canada he is arrested for his crimes. That would put a stop to the impunity enjoyed by the Punjab police dogs. 

Edited by proactive
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Kaur 2

VJKK VJKF

10 hours ago, proactive said:

I disagree that the actions taken are useless. If anything the united front that we have shown have unnerved the Indian govt. To have questions asked in the British parliament stating that an British citizen has been tortured would have caused embarrassment to the Indian govt. The fact that Sikh leaders around the world like Jagmeet Singh criticising the treatment of Jagtar Singh Jaggi will have put more pressure on the GOI. 

Does that image look familar? No. it's not Jaggi but Jaswant Singh Azad and it's not from 2017 but  from 2012 when an elderly Sikh maningh Azad from Sunderland in UK was arrested and framed in Punjab with the same charges as Jaggi faces now. It took him 5 long years and it was only in July this year that he was finally cleared. 

1730537133.jpg

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/sunderland-shopkeeper-arrested-in-india-over-alleged-terrorism-and-gun-offences-1-5008858

https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/07/26/bhai-daljit-singh-bittu-jaswant-singh-azad-acquitted-jalandhar-uapa-case/

Jaswant Singh Azad did not have British MPs asking questions about his treatment, he didn''t have Sikhs around the world rally to his support. This is the difference between 2012 and now. We are more united and we can carry out a well co-ordinated campaign for a fellow Sikh suffering in India. If you look back historically we have had prominent Sikhs not just tortured but murdered in Punjab and yet the Sikhs abroad did not even organise a protest. So I think we shouldn't dismiss what we have achieved in just a few weeks. That fat oaf Amarinder has pretty much turned all Sikhs abroad against him. Do you think he will be able to come to any western country now. If the Sikh organisations use the legal pathways that are available they could have him arrested when he places one step in a western country. We Sikhs should be using the same legal techniques that the Palestinians are using abroad where many Israeli politicians cannot come to some western countries as they could be arrested for abetting torture. 

Already images of the police dog who tortured Jaggi have been put on facebook. He is known to visit Canada and it should now be up to Sikh organisations to use the law in Canada so that the next time he steps foot in Canada he is arrested for his crimes. That would put a stop to the impunity enjoyed by the Punjab police dogs. 

... Injustice is happening everywhere...

VJKK VJKF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jagsaw_Singh

In my 'home truths' thread last week I mentioned how the Washington Post, last year, in a report about the influence of lobbying in the USA, stated that whilst international media attention focused on Israeli lobbyists it was in fact India that had the largest and most effective overseas lobbying and spying ring operating in western countries. Of course when I said that it went over the heads of most people because most people here only have enough intelligence to be able to talk about socks. But, reading through some in-depth reports about jaggi's arrest in Punjab we find some Punjab police sources  claiming that the Indian secret services had been tracking (i.e spying on) Jaggi's personal email address of guri_420@hotmail.com for a whole year. This means tracking which websites he visited and registered on (I,e this Sikh forum) etc. This also means they hack into websites such as this one and if anyone says anything bad about India they do a reverse IP track and find out where that person lives.....i.e who that person is.

Now, the fact that a country that laughingly calls itself a 'democracy' then goes on to police thoughts and supress ideals of self-determination is frightening enough. The fact that this country that laughingly calls itself a democracy then goes on to torture that individual for thinking ideals that India doesn't want is more frightening still. But the most frightening aspect of it all as how they are able to do what they do to us, under our very noses, because we are too dim to even spot what is being done to us. To stop you must first spot. To spot you must first collectively raise your intellectual game and realise that discussions about 'socks' are for the good and lazy times. These are not good times. Wake up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I would like to humbly say to any Ramgarhia Sikhs reading this that you have been blessed to have knowledge of Satguru. After having obtained Gian of the Guru, why would you ever need to pray to or worship lower deities? Bhai Gurdas ji refers to these lower deities in his Kabits as Aaan Dev (other deities): ਕਉਡਾ ਪੈਸਾ ਰੁਪਈਆ ਸੁਨਈਆ ਕੋ ਬਨਜ ਕਰੈ ਰਤਨ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਵਈ । Kaudaa Paisaa Roupaeeaa Sounaeeaa Ko Banaj Karai , Ratan Paarakhu Hoi Jauharee Kahaavaee । Just as one starts dealing in shells in the beginning, then in money, gold coins and then becomes evaluator of diamonds and precious stones. He is then called a jeweller.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੧   ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਇ ਪੁਨ ਕਉਡਾ ਕੋ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੈ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਨ ਮੈ ਪਤਸਿਟਾ ਘਟਾਵਈ । Jauharee Kahaai Poun Kaudaa Ko Banaju Karai , Panch Paravaan Mai Patasitaa Ghataavaee । But after becoming famous as a jeweller, one starts dealing in shells, he loses his respect among the elite people.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੨   ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਬਿਖੈ ਊਚ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵਈ । Aan Dayv Sayv Gurdayv Ko Sayvak Hui , Lok Paralok Bikhai Ooch Padu Paavaee । Similarly, if a follower of some god comes into the service of True Guru, he acquires high status in this and the world beyond.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੩   ਛਾਡਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਕਪੂਤ ਹੁਇ ਹਸਾਵਈ ॥੪੭੯॥ Chhaadi Gurdayv Sayv Aan Dayv Sayvak Hui , Nihadhal Janamu Kapoot Hui Hasaavaee ॥479॥ But if someone leaves the service of the True Guru, and becomes a follower of some other god, then he wastes away his human life and he is laughed at by others being known as a bad son.  (479) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੪ It is one thing for people who are just starting on the path of spirituality to worship various devtas. But when you, by the Grace of the Guru, come to know about Satguru, you would never go back. All of us have been blessed to have born in the house of Guru Nanak ji. We have no need to devolve to a lower state.
    • More on spiritual adultery. This is from Vaar Suhi by Guru Amar Dass ji, translation by the Nirmalas, a traditional Sikh order in the Faridkot Teeka: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
      ਵਾਰ ਸੂਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਲੋਕਾ ਨਾਲਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ 
      ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੋੜੇ ਅਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੂਏ ਵਾਰ ਅੁਚਾਰਨ 
      ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਣ॥ 
      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
      ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਂੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
      ਛੁਟੜ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਮੇਸਰ ਸੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹੈਣ ਸੂਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਸੋਣ ਮੇਣ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੇ 
      (ਪਰੁ ਪਿਰ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ) ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤੋਣ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨੇਣ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ 
      (ਪਿਰੁ) ਪਤੀ ਜੋ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸੋ (ਘਰਿ) ਅਪਨੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਮੈਣ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਦੂਜੇ ਭਾਵ ਮੈਣ 
      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ 
      (ਮਿਠਾ) ਭਾਵ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਿਸੋਣ ਕੋ ਭੋਗਾ ਥਾ ਬਿਸੇ ਰਸੋਣ ਸੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਧ 
      ਗਿਆ॥ 
      ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥ 
      ਸੁਧ ਭਰਤਾ ਜੋ ਹਰੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਕਰ ਵਿਛੋੜਾ ਹੀ ਲਾਗ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਜੋ ਗੁਰੋਣ ਕੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਤਿਸਨੇ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸ ਅੁਤਾਰ ਕੇ ਮਜੀਠਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਬਦਲਿਆ ਹੈ 
      ਭਾਵ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰੀ ਹੈ ਔ ਸਾਧਨ ਰੂਪ ਸਿੰਗਾਰੁ (ਸਾਜਿ) ਬਨਾ ਕਰ ਹਰੀ ਮੈਣ ਰਾਤੀ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਸਹਜਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਅੁਰ ਧਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਹਰੀ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੋ ਰਿਦੇ ਮੈਣ ਧਾਰ ਕੇ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪੁ ਪਾਰੇ ਕੇ ਆਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਸੁਭਾਵਕ ਹੀ ਭੋਗਾ 
      ਹੈ॥ 
      ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਸੋ ਆਗਾਕਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਵਹੁ ਆਪ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਮੇਲ ਲਈ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ 
      ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
      ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਣ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਹਰੀ ਰੂਪ ਸਜ਼ਚਾ ਭਰਤਾ ਪਾਯਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਜੀਵ ਰੂਪ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ 
      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
×