Waheguru ji ki fateh but against whom ??

[Guest]

I respect "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh", but tell me since gurbaani says god is the only thing that exists. 

"Sab Gobind hai sab gobind hai. Gobind bin nahi koi" . If god is only thing that exists, then how can there even be a concept like "victory" or "defeat".

Its like me playing tennis with myself. its ridiculous . I am neither the winner nor the loser. For me to either win or lose, there has to be someone else ! But with god, there's no one else. Even things are him only. 

So "Waheguru ji ki fateh" is against whom . ? when waheguru is the only thing that exists . Also since everything is his , both good and bad, then why we say "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa" too.

I am trying to understand. no offense

 

Mods might consider moving this thread to Gurbani section. Sorry ! 

[13Mirch]

14 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I respect "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh", but tell me since gurbaani says god is the only thing that exists. 

"Sab Gobind hai sab gobind hai. Gobind bin nahi koi" . If god is only thing that exists, then how can there even be a concept like "victory" or "defeat".

Its like me playing tennis with myself. its ridiculous . I am neither the winner nor the loser. For me to either win or lose, there has to be someone else ! But with god, there's no one else. Even things are him only. 

So "Waheguru ji ki fateh" is against whom . ? when waheguru is the only thing that exists . Also since everything is his , both good and bad, then why we say "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa" too.

I am trying to understand. no offense

 

Mods might consider moving this thread to Gurbani section. Sorry ! 

If we perceive this from the traditional Santaan school of thought, then of course this aphorism seems self-contradictory. Gurmat, though, differs from Sanataan Mat in that that it perceives attachment to the world to be false rather than the world (creation) itself. Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh reminds the Khalsa that Sri Akal Purakh Vaheguru is embedded in the very microcosms of their creation and will ultimately triumph over all man-made institutes/ hegemonies.

The Khalsa, according to Jagjit Singh ("Percussions of History," "In the Caravan of Revolutions") is the climax of Sikh mysticism in all fields. Upon it's manifestation, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji bequeathed it with the slogan of "Vahguru Ji Ka Khalsa; Vahguru Ji Ki Fateh."

If translated, this means: "The Khalsa belongs to God; triumph belongs to God." The slogan invokes dual emotions in Sikhs. The first emotion is that of optimism as the Khalsa's cause is, essentially, God's cause and will eventually succeed. The second is that of humility. Only via God's grace is triumph achieved and not through any personal efforts.

Furthermore, the Khalsa being the only army of the Divine makes it perennial. It is universal in character, ubiquitous in disposition and fundamentally humanistic in approach; as such it belongs to no one nation, community or era.

  

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

The Khalsa, according to Jagjit Singh ("Percussions of History," "In the Caravan of Revolutions") is the climax of Sikh mysticism in all fields

and maybe Sikhism itself is climax of spirituality and indian religion. 

Hindu -> Jain -> Bodhi -> Sikh (if you follow the chronology of their appearance). 

[13Mirch]

1 minute ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

and maybe Sikhism itself is climax of spirituality and indian religion. 

Hindu -> Jain -> Bodhi -> Sikh (if you follow the chronology of their appearance). 

Via the Bachittra-Natak, the true path is unalloyed and unchanging. Only the mediums have been changed with Sikhi (the Tisarpanth) having been manifested as the purest (so far) and the one less likely to become corrupt- of course if our bewkoofs don't have much to say on the matter. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Via the Bachittra-Natak, the true path is unalloyed and unchanging. Only the mediums have been changed with Sikhi (the Tisarpanth) having been manifested as the purest (so far) and the one less likely to become corrupt- of course if our bewkoofs don't have much to say on the matter. 

I wonder why sikhi is called "Tisarpanth" (third way?) , when there have been many other panths before , more than 2 . Sanatan (itself a conglomerate of many panths) , then Jainis, then Bodhis , Semitic ones like Jews , Isaai and Islam , then the alone Parsis. 

Maybe the only 2 are hindu and muslim ?

 

[13Mirch]

3 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I wonder why sikhi is called "Tisarpanth" (third way?) , when there have been many other panths before , more than 2 . Sanatan (itself a conglomerate of many panths) , then Jainis, then Bodhis , Semitic ones like Jews , Isaai and Islam , then the alone Parsis. 

Maybe the only 2 are hindu and muslim ?

 

Panth, this is only my belief, is intended to denote a praxis rather than sole ideological commitment/philosophy. The Hindu (as a religious and not cultural) praxis revolves around the proto-ritualism of the Vedas and adherence to the Caste hegemony. The Islamic praxis revolves around the cardinal pillars of the faith and it's socio-political domination. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Panth, this is only my belief, is intended to denote a praxis rather than sole ideological commitment/philosophy. The Hindu (as a religious and not cultural) praxis revolves around the proto-ritualism of the Vedas and adherence to the Caste hegemony. The Islamic praxis revolves around the cardinal pillars of the faith and it's socio-political domination. 

I tend to think of it as a culmination of an original idea, more like a termination.

Hinduism is a culmination of 5000 years of vedic religion, whereas Islam is a termination of the ancient Jewish religion which is perhaps 5000 yrs old too (Noah , abraham, etc must have lived thousands of yrs ago). That would also explain why Muhammad said he's the last prophet (of abrahamic lineage ofcourse) , but then muslims took it tot wrong and interpreted it as last prophet of humanity.

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

[Premi5]

3 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

 

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

I respectfully disagree. 

Sikhism has a lot in common with Vedic beliefs, less so with Islam.

Our beliefs are divine truths, which are not limited to Hinduism and Islam, and I definitely do not want Sikhs saying we are a "mix"

[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I tend to think of it as a culmination of an original idea, more like a termination.

Hinduism is a culmination of 5000 years of vedic religion, whereas Islam is a termination of the ancient Jewish religion which is perhaps 5000 yrs old too (Noah , abraham, etc must have lived thousands of yrs ago). That would also explain why Muhammad said he's the last prophet (of abrahamic lineage ofcourse) , but then muslims took it tot wrong and interpreted it as last prophet of humanity.

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

don't make this foolish mistake SIkhi is the meta faith , it is the original path which the hindus and abrahamics moved away from and dragged their followers into spiritual cul de sacs by either losing naam simran  or  Guru- shisya relationship with Akal Purakh by adding intermediaries pundits, mullahs, priests, popes, 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

Sikhism has a lot in common with Vedic beliefs, less so with Islam.

 

I partly agree, except vedic religion is more convoluted .