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AjeetSinghPunjabi

Waheguru ji ki fateh but against whom ??

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I respect "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh", but tell me since gurbaani says god is the only thing that exists. 

"Sab Gobind hai sab gobind hai. Gobind bin nahi koi" . If god is only thing that exists, then how can there even be a concept like "victory" or "defeat".

Its like me playing tennis with myself. its ridiculous . I am neither the winner nor the loser. For me to either win or lose, there has to be someone else ! But with god, there's no one else. Even things are him only. 

So "Waheguru ji ki fateh" is against whom . ? when waheguru is the only thing that exists . Also since everything is his , both good and bad, then why we say "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa" too.

I am trying to understand. no offense

 

Mods might consider moving this thread to Gurbani section. Sorry ! 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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37 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

The Khalsa, according to Jagjit Singh ("Percussions of History," "In the Caravan of Revolutions") is the climax of Sikh mysticism in all fields

and maybe Sikhism itself is climax of spirituality and indian religion. 

Hindu -> Jain -> Bodhi -> Sikh (if you follow the chronology of their appearance). 

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1 minute ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

and maybe Sikhism itself is climax of spirituality and indian religion. 

Hindu -> Jain -> Bodhi -> Sikh (if you follow the chronology of their appearance). 

Via the Bachittra-Natak, the true path is unalloyed and unchanging. Only the mediums have been changed with Sikhi (the Tisarpanth) having been manifested as the purest (so far) and the one less likely to become corrupt- of course if our bewkoofs don't have much to say on the matter. 

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6 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Via the Bachittra-Natak, the true path is unalloyed and unchanging. Only the mediums have been changed with Sikhi (the Tisarpanth) having been manifested as the purest (so far) and the one less likely to become corrupt- of course if our bewkoofs don't have much to say on the matter. 

I wonder why sikhi is called "Tisarpanth" (third way?) , when there have been many other panths before , more than 2 . Sanatan (itself a conglomerate of many panths) , then Jainis, then Bodhis , Semitic ones like Jews , Isaai and Islam , then the alone Parsis. 

Maybe the only 2 are hindu and muslim ?

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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3 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I wonder why sikhi is called "Tisarpanth" (third way?) , when there have been many other panths before , more than 2 . Sanatan (itself a conglomerate of many panths) , then Jainis, then Bodhis , Semitic ones like Jews , Isaai and Islam , then the alone Parsis. 

Maybe the only 2 are hindu and muslim ?

 

Panth, this is only my belief, is intended to denote a praxis rather than sole ideological commitment/philosophy. The Hindu (as a religious and not cultural) praxis revolves around the proto-ritualism of the Vedas and adherence to the Caste hegemony. The Islamic praxis revolves around the cardinal pillars of the faith and it's socio-political domination. 

Edited by 13Mirch

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3 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Panth, this is only my belief, is intended to denote a praxis rather than sole ideological commitment/philosophy. The Hindu (as a religious and not cultural) praxis revolves around the proto-ritualism of the Vedas and adherence to the Caste hegemony. The Islamic praxis revolves around the cardinal pillars of the faith and it's socio-political domination. 

I tend to think of it as a culmination of an original idea, more like a termination.

Hinduism is a culmination of 5000 years of vedic religion, whereas Islam is a termination of the ancient Jewish religion which is perhaps 5000 yrs old too (Noah , abraham, etc must have lived thousands of yrs ago). That would also explain why Muhammad said he's the last prophet (of abrahamic lineage ofcourse) , but then muslims took it tot wrong and interpreted it as last prophet of humanity.

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

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3 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

 

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

I respectfully disagree. 

Sikhism has a lot in common with Vedic beliefs, less so with Islam.

Our beliefs are divine truths, which are not limited to Hinduism and Islam, and I definitely do not want Sikhs saying we are a "mix"

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3 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I tend to think of it as a culmination of an original idea, more like a termination.

Hinduism is a culmination of 5000 years of vedic religion, whereas Islam is a termination of the ancient Jewish religion which is perhaps 5000 yrs old too (Noah , abraham, etc must have lived thousands of yrs ago). That would also explain why Muhammad said he's the last prophet (of abrahamic lineage ofcourse) , but then muslims took it tot wrong and interpreted it as last prophet of humanity.

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

don't make this foolish mistake SIkhi is the meta faith , it is the original path which the hindus and abrahamics moved away from and dragged their followers into spiritual cul de sacs by either losing naam simran  or  Guru- shisya relationship with Akal Purakh by adding intermediaries pundits, mullahs, priests, popes, 

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1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

Sikhism has a lot in common with Vedic beliefs, less so with Islam.

 

I partly agree, except vedic religion is more convoluted .

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

don't make this foolish mistake SIkhi is the meta faith , it is the original path which the hindus and abrahamics moved away from and dragged their followers into spiritual cul de sacs by either losing naam simran  or  Guru- shisya relationship with Akal Purakh by adding intermediaries pundits, mullahs, priests, popes, 

Both Hinduism and Islam have naam simran too . Muslims recite 99 names of allah on tasbih, Hindus recite naam on 108 maala. Rituals were meant for a purpose, but meaning was lost. If sikhi was the original faith, then whats to say we ourselves won't move away from it by inventing our own rituals ? I wonder if people keep losing track repeatedly and if new religion is required for bringing them on track, then a new religion will come again because people lost track of sikhi ?

PS : I don't consider christianity as a real religion . Irony of world is a man made religion created by popes and having little to do with Jesus is largest religion of world. 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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19 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I respect "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh", but tell me since gurbaani says god is the only thing that exists. 

"Sab Gobind hai sab gobind hai. Gobind bin nahi koi" . If god is only thing that exists, then how can there even be a concept like "victory" or "defeat".

Its like me playing tennis with myself. its ridiculous . I am neither the winner nor the loser. For me to either win or lose, there has to be someone else ! But with god, there's no one else. Even things are him only. 

So "Waheguru ji ki fateh" is against whom . ? when waheguru is the only thing that exists . Also since everything is his , both good and bad, then why we say "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa" too.

I am trying to understand. no offense

 

Mods might consider moving this thread to Gurbani section. Sorry ! 

Nowdays one moment a person is Saint other a sinner if you get my drift !

So we should judge deeds not individuals as Khalas or pure. For example

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨ ਭਏ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਿਹ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੪॥੩॥

Says Kabeer, those humble people become pure - they become Khalsa - who know the Lord's loving devotional worship. ||4||3||

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/2504/28303

If you obey the above teachings then you are Khalsa otherwise not !

Coming to your other query, it is Brahmgiani's attribute & belief that Waheguru resides in all, not Sant-Sipahi.

Saint-soldier's have faith & duty is

ਜੈਕਾਰੁ ਕੀਓ ਧਰਮੀਆ ਕਾ ਪਾਪੀ ਕਉ ਡੰਡੁ ਦੀਓਇ ॥੧੬॥

He honors the righteous and punishes the sinners. ||16||

https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/249/3594

Only Waheguru ji are Sarab-kala-samrath

we can only try & master one, two or three kala's (skills).

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9 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Both Hinduism and Islam have naam simran too . Muslims recite 99 names of allah on tasbih, Hindus recite naam on 108 maala. Rituals were meant for a purpose, but meaning was lost. If sikhi was the original faith, then whats to say we ourselves won't move away from it by inventing our own rituals ? I wonder if people keep losing track repeatedly and if new religion is required for bringing them on track, then a new religion will come again because people lost track of sikhi ?

PS : I don't consider christianity as a real religion . Irony of world is a man made religion created by popes and having little to do with Jesus is largest religion of world. 

Dasam bani states the reasons why Mohammed failed his mission because he didn't emphasise naam as the path but apna naam japia, similarly veham and bharam introduced by maya driven pundits divided the masses from the message of Ik parbraham  to duality model even proposing punishment of bhagats due to caste of birth......

what were the roots and what is the fruit?  much like a cuckoo the pretender kills the true messenger/followers and takes their place being fed and nurtured by the desperate masses.

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8 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Dasam bani states the reasons why Mohammed failed his mission because he didn't emphasise naam as the path but apna naam japia, similarly veham and bharam introduced by maya driven pundits divided the masses from the message of Ik parbraham  to duality model even proposing punishment of bhagats due to caste of birth......

what were the roots and what is the fruit?  much like a cuckoo the pretender kills the true messenger/followers and takes their place being fed and nurtured by the desperate masses.

yupp . exactly . Sikhi is pure , but there's so much insidious attempts to rid that message of pure unbridled monotheism and bhagti 

Also our own people don't really truly understand baani although we parrot it a lot 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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On 11/19/2017 at 9:41 PM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I tend to think of it as a culmination of an original idea, more like a termination.

Hinduism is a culmination of 5000 years of vedic religion, whereas Islam is a termination of the ancient Jewish religion which is perhaps 5000 yrs old too (Noah , abraham, etc must have lived thousands of yrs ago). That would also explain why Muhammad said he's the last prophet (of abrahamic lineage ofcourse) , but then muslims took it tot wrong and interpreted it as last prophet of humanity.

How beautiful that two cultures were growing next to each other (perhaps unaware of each other). And then Islam which is culmination of abrahamic religion mingled with Hinduism which is culmination of Vedic religion in Punjab . And there took birth of another faith , Sikhism.

No wonder even some official dictionaries define sikhism as "religion mix of hinduism and islam" . And then the whole sikhi saroop is like taken from both rishi (uncut hair , top knot) lineage and abrahamic (turban, long robes/baana) .  Makes perfect sense lol 

The Saroop is only similar externally, ideologically there is a world of difference:

https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2017/04/01/panj/

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