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Is Sikhism really hijacked by Jattism ?

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I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir.

Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly!

In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . 

(Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit.

Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ??

If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most.

 

You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) : 

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
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43 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir.

Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly!

In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . 

(Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit.

Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ??

If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most.

 

You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) : 

 

he...he...he..

Are Jatts really a caste or a race???  >>>> you should see the other DNA thread and try clear up some huge misconceptions.

NO IF>>>NO BUT>>>SIRF JATT!!!!!!!!!     (Sunny Deol)

 

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40 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

he...he...he..

Are Jatts really a caste or a race???  >>>> you should see the other DNA thread and try clear up some huge misconceptions.

NO IF>>>NO BUT>>>SIRF JATT!!!!!!!!!     (Sunny Deol)

 

your way of writing suggests your intelligence level ! 

Write in a way in which other people treat you seriously 

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2 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir.

Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly!

In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . 

(Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit.

Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ??

If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most.

 

You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) : 

 

Caste in Punjab is an issue because of the Brahmin Elite that controls all institutions of India.  Taking ownership of a 'Brahmin' problem detracts the attention from the real culprits and architects of this menace.

We as Sikhs do not believe, practice or promote this 'Brahminical' system of apartheid.  However as the laws and and constitution of India refuse to outlaw or make these practises a criminal offence, the Punjab is always going to affected by this.  For example the reservation posts for 'scheduled casts' causes resentment amongst the so called higher casts who may well be poorer in some cases and the 'scheduled cast' status is something lower casts are more than happy to embrace for certain benefits. 
A better system would be a 'means' based benefits system which would be there for anyone who is financially disadvantaged.  This could not happen in 'India' as this would threaten the grip 'Brahmins' have over society.
The only way cast discrimination can be eradicated from Sikh institutions and the mindset of so called Sikhs is to bind them by law, provide religious education and give them a fair society which benefits all.  Neither of these are allowed to flourish in India controlled Punjab.
 
So in short if you want to fix the problems for Sikhs in Punjab then 'Independence' is the only way we can truly create a society which is governed by the teachings 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj'.  Bound by constitution and implemented through law.
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Human beings like many other species are organised into hierarchies. 

The caste system is a hierarchy, you can destroy this hierarchy but it will be replaced by another hierarchy. 

Humans have always discriminated amongst each other for various reasons.If it is not based on caste it will be something else. 

There is a phemenon happening with Gurdwarae I hear from relatives in California.

Gurdwarae aren't based in commitees where one is Jatts dominated or Tharkhan dominated. 

They are seperated by what is happening locally. There are different gurdwarae based on if you are a "trucker" or a "doctor". 

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This is what our enemies want us to talk about and being busy in such issues so that they can do their job of eliminating our history, language, culture and religion. In my opinion, If the OP who started this thread, if he is not jatt then he believes in caste things. 

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25 minutes ago, S1ngh said:

This is what our enemies want us to talk about and being busy in such issues so that they can do their job of eliminating our history, language, culture and religion. In my opinion, If the OP who started this thread, if he is not jatt then he believes in caste things. 

I consider myself sikh only. If you insist on knowing my "caste", we're kumiyar (potters). But it doesn't matter me anyways because our guru disregards such things . I don't believe in caste things . Don't know what suggested you otherwise. i am also against swinging the pendulum far other side and becoming jatt-phobic . Let us all become a casteless society. It would be biggest legacy for our gurus.

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
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4 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:

Caste in Punjab is an issue because of the Brahmin Elite that controls all institutions of India.  Taking ownership of a 'Brahmin' problem detracts the attention from the real culprits and architects of this menace.

We as Sikhs do not believe, practice or promote this 'Brahminical' system of apartheid.  However as the laws and and constitution of India refuse to outlaw or make these practises a criminal offence, the Punjab is always going to affected by this.  For example the reservation posts for 'scheduled casts' causes resentment amongst the so called higher casts who may well be poorer in some cases and the 'scheduled cast' status is something lower casts are more than happy to embrace for certain benefits. 
A better system would be a 'means' based benefits system which would be there for anyone who is financially disadvantaged.  This could not happen in 'India' as this would threaten the grip 'Brahmins' have over society.
The only way cast discrimination can be eradicated from Sikh institutions and the mindset of so called Sikhs is to bind them by law, provide religious education and give them a fair society which benefits all.  Neither of these are allowed to flourish in India controlled Punjab.
 
So in short if you want to fix the problems for Sikhs in Punjab then 'Independence' is the only way we can truly create a society which is governed by the teachings 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj'.  Bound by constitution and implemented through law.

You said brahmins have created the current reservation order in india ! 

Infact brahmans despise it the most ! Because the current reservation policy is totally against upper castes, including brahmans . 

Let us first admit we have failed . I don't want to beat dead our community over this but considering how good sikhi is in theory but still lagging a little behind in practice. Although we still have good elements like langar , open gurudwaras for all and so on . We just need to move a little further . 

Thanks 

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Guy's, truth is we all are selfcentred.

If there's any benefit from caste, clan, surname we will use it.

When we need blood for medical emergency do we think twice whether the donor is a so called 'outsider' !

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

 

When we need blood for medical emergency do we think twice whether the donor is a so called 'outsider' !

 

 

 

Yes, I am sure people do think twice. A lot of punjabis will probably not want from a 'lower'  caste. 

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7 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I remember a video went viral in 2010 or something in which an angry Dalit Buddhist/Sikh lady was seen giving angry speech in a funny punjabi accent, complaining about how Sikhism was hijacked by the same baahmanwaad that it aimed to eradicate. and how Sikhism was not really separate ideologically from Buddhism. She was perhaps a neo-buddhist and Ambedkar follower named Kamlesh Ahir.

Kamlesh Ahir's speech was mostly about woes of so-called low castes being denied active participation in indian religions. And how sikh gurus tried to revive Buddhas ideals of casteless society equal for all, but that Sikhism was failed by Sikhs themselves. I agree with her only partly!

In this video, the same lady (in funny frantic voice) is heard complaining about how Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar wanted to convert to sikhi along with his 5 million followers but was let down by Jatt-dominated Akalis who feared losing control of harmandar sahib. So as a result Ambedkar ji had to convert to Buddhism along with his followers and they also burnt manusmriti , a hindu text which is still celebrated by buddhists in india as "manusmriti dahan diwas". The lady also complained about how Sikhs don't want chamaars, Ravidasias , Valmiks and other downtrodden along with them , and as a consequent Sikhi is not really spread . 

(Khalsa college of mumbai of which I myself am an alumni is a really cool college founded by Babasaheb Ambedkar himself). So I will give her credit.

Anyways, coming to point , Is Sikhi really totally dominated by Jatts , esp when it comes to filling top clergical and administrative posts in SGPC gurudwaras ??

If so , its a really shame for our panth. We need to introspect deeply. We feel delighted at sight of white/black sikhs , then why we should feel hesitation to accept downtrodden low-castes of india who will benefit from sikhi the most.

 

You can hear her here (again I don't agree with her at times , and she sound really bullsshit sometimes, but she does make a point about casteism in sikhi) : 

 

What you tend to find with any group that like to boast about themselves.

Is that the louder someone shouts the more insecure he is inside. 

Thats why foxes, dogs  and hyensas bark alot and make a scene to try and scare or imtimidate. But A lion just does one growl and shows them who is the boss. The moral of the story is confidence is quiet insecurity is loud. 

This is not directed at all jatts but only those that boast and try and put others down. 

Edited by Big_Tera
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      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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