So I took a Ethnicity DNA Test...

[jkvlondon]

17 hours ago, joker said:

the true is punjabi women were 4q  by persians greeks arabs turks muslims british hindus , what has changed

 

 

errr kindly keep your filthy mouth to yourself ...this is forum that respects women  not spread misogynistic vitriol

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

I think it is very interesting from historical point of view. Seeing all these different ethnicities, and mapping when/how they arrived in Punjab. I suppose we could summarize a lot of common folks from Persian controlled areas were travelling and settling in Punjab, during the early Persian invasions. 

[MrDoaba]

17 hours ago, joker said:

the true is punjabi women were 4q  by persians greeks arabs turks muslims british hindus , what has changed

 

 

ਇਦਾਂ ਦੇ ਜ਼ੁਬਾਨ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਤਾਂ ਤੂ ਗਸ਼ਤੀ ਦਾ ਬੱਚਾ ਹੋਵੇਂ

 

[MrDoaba]

39 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I think it is very interesting from historical point of view. Seeing all these different ethnicities, and mapping when/how they arrived in Punjab. I suppose we could summarize a lot of common folks from Persian controlled areas were travelling and settling in Punjab, during the early Persian invasions. 

Do you think we should pay more attention to our Persian heritage given Guru Gobind Singh Ji's affinity for the Persian language and culture?

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:56 PM, Kira said:

Actually humanity might have originated in Europe according to recent research. Though this doesn't disprove evolution or anything in Puratan scriptures.

I read that too. Would be quite interesting, especially for all the social justice warriors who proudly exclaim "We all come from Africa!" ?Although I personally do not care where we came from. 

23 hours ago, joker said:

the true is punjabi women were 4q  by persians greeks arabs turks muslims british hindus , what has changed

 

 

You're an <banned word filter activated>. 

4 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Do you think we should pay more attention to our Persian heritage given Guru Gobind Singh Ji's affinity for the Persian language and culture?

I wouldn't say we have a Persian heritage. They mixed into Punjabi society, and I don't believe they left any lasting marks, aside from language. 

[MrDoaba]

6 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I wouldn't say we have a Persian heritage. They mixed into Punjabi society, and I don't believe they left any lasting marks, aside from language. 

Good point. It would be amazing to see a revival of Farsi in our quam though - some oldies rave about it, and I wish I had the himmat to learn such a complex language.

[BhForce]

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

Good point. It would be amazing to see a revival of Farsi in our quam though - some oldies rave about it, and I wish I had the himmat to learn such a complex language.

It's not a complex language, bro. Arabic is a complex language. The grammar is complex. You have different forms for singular, plural, 3 or more people, whether they are present in front of you or not, etc. Pronunciation is difficult for us because there are sounds which we are not familiar with. There are fewer words with which we as Punjabis are familiar.

Persian, by contrast, is arguably simpler than Punjabi, because, e.g., it doesn't have grammatical gender. The sounds are easier for us to pronounce (there are only a handful that don't exist in desi Punjabi, but they do exist in urban Punjabi or Urdu, so you've probably already heard the sounds). Many of the words also exist in Punjabi, so that means there's a foothold for us to hang on to while figuring out the meaning of a sentence.

Learning Persian for us is like crossing a lake with a paddle-boat. Learning Arabic for us is like trying to cross the Pacific Ocean with a life jacket from the bottom of your airplane seat.

Oh, and Arabic is a non-Indo-European language. Persian is Indo-European (like Punjabi, of course).

[TejS]

8 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Good point. It would be amazing to see a revival of Farsi in our quam though - some oldies rave about it, and I wish I had the himmat to learn such a complex language.

I think if you want to learn Farsi on your own, that's great because learning another language is always fine and all. But what need do we have of Farsi, what need does it fulfill for our community? The Persians don't feel any affinity towards Punjabis, they aren't learning Punjabi as a community, so why should we be?

I think our quam has more worrisome things to tackle than reviving Farsi. We need to revive Gurmukhi and Punjabi among our community, because most of our youth does not know it.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I disagree with your comment.

As for your DNA results, great that you got them done. I also took a DNA test through 23andme last year and I got similar results, most Punjabis do. Apart from the curiosity of where my ancestors are from, it also warns you of potential genetic diseases, which I thought was beneficial. We need more Punjabis to take these DNA tests as it improves data and puts an impetus on the researchers to focus research on our people.

As for the Persian origin, I was told that it's most likely that both Punjabis and Persians belonged to one Aryan tribe that later on split up into the Iranic people and the Indic people. This claim is supported by the Rig Ved. Our people, the Indic Aryans then mixed with the Dravidians to produce the Indo-Aryans of today, and thats why we still share a genetic link with Persians but do not have similar genes due to mutations and mixing.

[Ranjeet01]

The claim that we are Persian and then we proceed to call it Farsi which from what I understand is the Arab pronounciation for Persian because there is no "P" in the Arab alphabet. 

[MrDoaba]

8 hours ago, BhForce said:

It's not a complex language, bro. Arabic is a complex language. The grammar is complex. You have different forms for singular, plural, 3 or more people, whether they are present in front of you or not, etc. Pronunciation is difficult for us because there are sounds which we are not familiar with. There are fewer words with which we as Punjabis are familiar.

Persian, by contrast, is arguably simpler than Punjabi, because, e.g., it doesn't have grammatical gender. The sounds are easier for us to pronounce (there are only a handful that don't exist in desi Punjabi, but they do exist in urban Punjabi or Urdu, so you've probably already heard the sounds). Many of the words also exist in Punjabi, so that means there's a foothold for us to hang on to while figuring out the meaning of a sentence.

Learning Persian for us is like crossing a lake with a paddle-boat. Learning Arabic for us is like trying to cross the Pacific Ocean with a life jacket from the bottom of your airplane seat.

Oh, and Arabic is a non-Indo-European language. Persian is Indo-European (like Punjabi, of course).

My bad, I was referring to the differences between Written Persian and Colloquial Persian bro, which makes the language as a whole appear complex. I'm familiar with the fact that Persian is fairly easy to become fluent in for speakers of other Indo-European languages. I've met quite a few native Persian speakers and was surprised at the rate they are able to pick up Urdu/Hindi.

Similarly, I was surprised at the extent of influence Persian has had on Punjabi. The majority of us know that we borrow a considerable amount of vocabulary from it, but in our day to day speech we tend to forget - after hearing Shudh Hindi speakers (and watching the likes of Ramayan and Chandragupta Maurya) I was shocked at how little I understood, especially as someone who claims to be fluent in Hindi. What I'm actually fluent in is neither Hindi nor Urdu, nor Hindustani for that matter, rather it's a combination of them. I always make it a point to learn the equivalent Sanskrit word though as it increases my knowledge of Punjabi and makes it easier to understand Gurbani.

Take for example this simple phrase I came across quite awhile back which translates as "one language isn't enough":

yek zaban kafi nist

Literally: ek zubaan kaafi nahi

A Punjabi speaker would be able to easily comprehend the former - and although you wouldn't say it as such in a Punjabi conversation, one could get away with saying the latter and undoubtedly get their point across.

On a side note, being able to read Urdu and Shahmukhi would be somewhat worthwhile in my opinion. I have a whole stack of books in both which belonged to my Grandfather, and I don't have it in me to get rid of them. Along with the books I have plenty of letters witten on those blue airmail envelopes from the '70s and '80s - who knows what they say. Not only that, we also have loads of old zamine papers written in these scripts too, albeit patwari's have notoriously vile handwriting.