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26 minutes ago, kcmidlands said:

1. Read what i wrote, "i'm sorry, but if that happened to anyone, turban or not, we should be protesting.", i'm not alluding to you and whatever stance you have on protesting or not, Them moment you said the word "mona" you made a division, if you had made the same post and not mentioned the fact that he had cut hair no one would be disagreeing with you.

Where did you say what happened to him was okay, you didn't and i'm not saying you did, that's your assumption.

2. I stand by what i said, read what i said in context, i said  "largest democracy" in the world",, if you live in the largest democracy in the world would you expect to be taken in broad daylight for criticising the Government or the way they run the country. I'm well aware of the Human Right's violations committed in Punjab and by the police there, everyone know's someone whose suffered, i'm no different, if this proves anything it's that Sikh's need to take a long hard look at what they call their motherland and how much respect we get there.

 

I think what is happening to Jaggi is horrible.  I did not know who this guy was before this happened, but he seems like a decent guy, and I've appreciated the website that he made for a long time.  I'm glad the Sikh community in the UK is mobilizing and putting pressure on the Punjab govt, and I hope he gets released soon.

 

 

1.  How could I have made the same post and not mentioned the fact that he had a haircut?  My point was entirely centered on the theory that this guy is can identify as a Sikh when he wants and fly under the radar when that is more convenient, PRECISELY BECAUSE HE HAS A HAIRCUT.  So you are wrong, I could not have made the same post without mentioning that fact. 

Why do you have a problem with me using the term "mona"?  And why are you saying that I am causing a division?  Should we completely refrain from referring to any unique characteristics that people have in order to avoid "division"? 

I wish people would stop being so overly politically correct and sensitive.  I merely referred to him as a mona.  I did not follow that up with any value judgement.  Should I be offended if someone refers to me as a Singh, or a Punjabi or a male or an American?  Is anyone who refers to these aspects of my identity "causing a division"?

 

 

2.  Yes, what you say is correct in theory.  But in reality, any Sikh who has even a vague idea of what has occurred in Punjab since the late 1970s would know that India is a democracy in name only.  Theory and reality are two different things.  In theory, I should be able to walk around the worst slums in America at 3 am and not be worried that I'm going to get mugged because, you know, it's against the law to mug someone.  In reality, only someone who lacks common sense would go out in that situation without an awareness of the risk they are taking.

I agree with you that Sikhs need to take a long, hard look at at what they call their motherland and the lack of respect they get there.

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11 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

I think what is happening to Jaggi is horrible.  I did not know who this guy was before this happened, but he seems like a decent guy, and I've appreciated the website that he made for a long time.  I'm glad the Sikh community in the UK is mobilizing and putting pressure on the Punjab govt, and I hope he gets released soon.

 

 

1.  How could I have made the same post and not mentioned the fact that he had a haircut?  My point was entirely centered on the theory that this guy is can identify as a Sikh when he wants and fly under the radar when that is more convenient, PRECISELY BECAUSE HE HAS A HAIRCUT.  So you are wrong, I could not have made the same post without mentioning that fact. 

Why do you have a problem with me using the term "mona"?  And why are you saying that I am causing a division?  Should we completely refrain from referring to any unique characteristics that people have in order to avoid "division"? 

I wish people would stop being so overly politically correct and sensitive.  I merely referred to him as a mona.  I did not follow that up with any value judgement.  Should I be offended if someone refers to me as a Singh, or a Punjabi or a male or an American?  Is anyone who refers to these aspects of my identity "causing a division"?

 

 

2.  Yes, what you say is correct in theory.  But in reality, any Sikh who has even a vague idea of what has occurred in Punjab since the late 1970s would know that India is a democracy in name only.  Theory and reality are two different things.  In theory, I should be able to walk around the worst slums in America at 3 am and not be worried that I'm going to get mugged because, you know, it's against the law to mug someone.  In reality, only someone who lacks common sense would go out in that situation without an awareness of the risk they are taking.

I agree with you that Sikhs need to take a long, hard look at at what they call their motherland and the lack of respect they get there.

I think this debate could go on for a while, mt issue with people saying "mona" is the simple fact that i know Punjabi's with cut hair that respect and adhere to Sikhi more than ones with a dastaar and even fully grown beards, as far as flying under the radar, there are plenty of us out there with a pagh on our heads that do that, it's not restricted to those that have cut hair.

Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv is a highly regarded human rights activist, the man know's more about injustices done to Sikhs than anyone I know, he's a "mona", i've never seen him fly under the radar.

Like i said, we could debate forever, everyone has their own opinion and though process.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/jagtar-singh-joha-sikh-man-india-police-torture-remains-custody-jeremy-corbyn-briefed-case-a8075061.html

Scottish Sikh man 'tortured' by Indian police remains in custody as Jeremy Corbyn briefed on case

Labour leader 'expressed his disquiet with the method of abduction, the lack of access to lawyers', Sikh Federation says.

A spokesman for the Sikh Federation said: "He expressed his disquiet with the method of abduction, the lack of access to lawyers, British consular staff and family for the first 10 days, Jagtar's allegations of third degree torture, the fact he remains in police custody rather than judicial custody and the refusal to grant an independent medical examination."

Mr Corbyn promised to discuss the matter with Preet Kaur Gill, the chairman of the All Party Parliamentary Group for British Sikhs and Labour MP for Birmingham Edgbaston and to try and meet Mr Johal's family and campaigners early next week.

Three members of the British High Commission, including Deputy High Commissioner Andrew Ayre attended Mr Johal's court hearing on Friday.

His lawyer said he "pleaded his innocence" and stated he was unrelated to any of the crimes he is being linked with.

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CCTV bike is surely not UK youth as person has checked shirt, favorite with indians..

.anyone, could use that as false evidence against Sikhs, as our Dastaar has been used by rss to commit heinous crimes against minorites, then, either add Singh last name or Dastaar, to use Sikhs as scapegoat ji_/\_

Most disappointing is Brahmgyani Sikhs feel we should look other way in bhagti, while murders against Bhai Jaswant Singh Khaira, 3 days Sikh genocide, Gurbani repeated beadbi, instead of to ardas benti for Guru Pita Maharaj to Bahhn Dehyn, as He did Praihlad, against tyrant harnakash...

When will Khalsa of all our Sikh Panth, minorities, dalits, poor, reporters, females,children et al...victims of terror rss, JOIN FORCES TO DEMAND JUSTICE against this rss menace Jio_/\_

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Whats the update? It's been ages, can't believe he's not out yet. Shows how much regard the UK Government has for Sikhs. Considering how many there are there. 

Can this be taken to the UN? Human rights, though I'm sure this must already have been done of possible. 

Edited by LightofNaam

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On 11/24/2017 at 3:34 PM, californiasardar1 said:

 

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  Where did I suggest I was better than others for being a sardar?  I was talking about something completely different.  One poster asked why, given his background, Jaggi took a risk in going to India.  ANY answer would be speculative, and I speculated that being a mona who doesn't deal with being identified as a Sikh 24/7, maybe he was not as vigilant as he should have been.  Nowhere in there did i say anything about me being better than him or him being worse than me.  You took what I said and completely twisted it and made it into something else.

 

You call me a nindak, but you are a liar for lying about what I did and did not say.

I ain't a liar, whether you meant it or not, you sounded like a NINDAK and thats why I called you one. Now with your last rant, you sound like someone doing kuthiyah wala baquas LOL

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11 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

I ain't a liar, whether you meant it or not, you sounded like a NINDAK and thats why I called you one. Now with your last rant, you sound like someone doing kuthiyah wala baquas LOL

Thanks for your assessment.  You've made it clear through your posts that you're a dimwit who lacks basic reading comprehension skills, is incapable of having a nuanced conversation about anything, and brings very little to the table beyond ad hominem attacks.

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On 11/25/2017 at 9:26 AM, kcmidlands said:

I think this debate could go on for a while, mt issue with people saying "mona" is the simple fact that i know Punjabi's with cut hair that respect and adhere to Sikhi more than ones with a dastaar and even fully grown beards, as far as flying under the radar, there are plenty of us out there with a pagh on our heads that do that, it's not restricted to those that have cut hair.

Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv is a highly regarded human rights activist, the man know's more about injustices done to Sikhs than anyone I know, he's a "mona", i've never seen him fly under the radar.

Like i said, we could debate forever, everyone has their own opinion and though process.

 

I do not doubt that there are many Punjabis with hair cuts who have great respect for Sikhi.  I'm sure the vast majority of monay are much better Sikhs than I am.  But why is it offensive to simply refer to the fact that they have haircuts (without making any value judgment)?

 

You say that Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv does not fly under the radar.  That's not true.  Unless you know him from his youtube channel or some other presentation he has made at some sort of Sikh related event, he flys under the radar as much as any other mona does. 

If you did not know who he was and saw him on the street, would you know that he is a Sikh?  No.  If I was walking down the street and saw him, I might guess that he was possibly Persian, Mexican, Turkish, Pakistani, Arabic, a Hindu/Muslim Indian, etc.  That's why I say that monay fly under the radar.  Only people who know them personally know that they are Sikh. 

When he feels like identifying himself as a Sikh, Sarbjit Singh Rajoanatv can tie a kesri or blue ramal, sit in front of a picture of Bhindranwale, and record his videos (he makes very nice, passionate videos, even if he does a sloppy fact checking).  Other times, he can walk around and nobody who doesn't already know him will know that he is a Sikh.  He can fly under the radar.

Edited by californiasardar1

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22 hours ago, LightofNaam said:

Whats the update? It's been ages, can't believe he's not out yet. Shows how much regard the UK Government has for Sikhs. Considering how many there are there. 

Can this be taken to the UN? Human rights, though I'm sure this must already have been done of possible. 

 

I fear that even if he is eventually set free, it will be after he has wasted precious months (if not years) of his life imprisoned.

 

I am very glad that the UK sangat is engaged and using all of their resources to help Jaggi.

 

As for the sangat in Punjab, I fear that they are disillusioned and consumed with other problems ...

 

 

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9 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

I do not doubt that there are many Punjabis with hair cuts who have great respect for Sikhi.  I'm sure the vast majority of monay are much better Sikhs than I am.  But why is it offensive to simply refer to the fact that they have haircuts (without making any value judgment)?

 

You say that Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv does not fly under the radar.  That's not true.  Unless you know him from his youtube channel or some other presentation he has made at some sort of Sikh related event, he flys under the radar as much as any other mona does. 

If you did not know who he was and saw him on the street, would you know that he is a Sikh?  No.  If I was walking down the street and saw him, I might guess that he was possibly Persian, Mexican, Turkish, Pakistani, Arabic, a Hindu/Muslim Indian, etc.  That's why I say that monay fly under the radar.  Only people who know them personally know that they are Sikh. 

When he feels like identifying himself as a Sikh, Sarbjit Singh Rajoanatv can tie a kesri or blue ramal, sit in front of a picture of Bhindranwale, and record his videos (he makes very nice, passionate videos, even if he does a sloppy fact checking).  Other times, he can walk around and nobody who doesn't already know him will know that he is a Sikh.  He can fly under the radar.

I actually do know Sarbjit personally and to say he fly's under the radar is nonsense, just because he's not in the public eye defending Sikhi all the time doesn't mean he's "flying under the radar".

Like i've already said, there are plenty of turban wearing Sikhs who fly under the radar and only come out when it's in there interest, just go to any Gurdwara in the UK, they're called committee members, like i said, each to their own.

Edited by kcmidlands
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12 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

Thanks for your assessment.  You've made it clear through your posts that you're a dimwit who lacks basic reading comprehension skills, is incapable of having a nuanced conversation about anything, and brings very little to the table beyond ad hominem attacks.

Balle Shera only you know how to read and write... no matter how educated you claim to be (similar to other idiots like prof darshan sio and dilgeer) your lack of basic akal and common sense prevails you. Now stick to being a bitter nindak and stop doing my head in.

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12 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

I do not doubt that there are many Punjabis with hair cuts who have great respect for Sikhi.  I'm sure the vast majority of monay are much better Sikhs than I am.  But why is it offensive to simply refer to the fact that they have haircuts (without making any value judgment)?

 

You say that Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv does not fly under the radar.  That's not true.  Unless you know him from his youtube channel or some other presentation he has made at some sort of Sikh related event, he flys under the radar as much as any other mona does. 

If you did not know who he was and saw him on the street, would you know that he is a Sikh?  No.  If I was walking down the street and saw him, I might guess that he was possibly Persian, Mexican, Turkish, Pakistani, Arabic, a Hindu/Muslim Indian, etc.  That's why I say that monay fly under the radar.  Only people who know them personally know that they are Sikh. 

When he feels like identifying himself as a Sikh, Sarbjit Singh Rajoanatv can tie a kesri or blue ramal, sit in front of a picture of Bhindranwale, and record his videos (he makes very nice, passionate videos, even if he does a sloppy fact checking).  Other times, he can walk around and nobody who doesn't already know him will know that he is a Sikh.  He can fly under the radar.

Sloppy fact checking? CALFORNIA-NINDAK... you really are a bitter sad little man, Sarbjit has done more than you will ever do and yet you got the nerve to question him. If he is saying something that isnt factually correct, why dont you either contact him and help? Or make your own videos with a view to sharing facts? Nope instead you chat baquas on this like your better than everyone else.

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49 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

Sloppy fact checking? CALFORNIA-NINDAK... you really are a bitter sad little man, Sarbjit has done more than you will ever do and yet you got the nerve to question him. If he is saying something that isnt factually correct, why dont you either contact him and help? Or make your own videos with a view to sharing facts? Nope instead you chat baquas on this like your better than everyone else.

 

Yes, let's not question anything that anyone does, as long as they have good intentions. 

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3 hours ago, kcmidlands said:

I actually do know Sarbjit personally and to say he fly's under the radar is nonsense, just because he's not in the public eye defending Sikhi all the time doesn't mean he's "flying under the radar".

Like i've already said, there are plenty of turban wearing Sikhs who fly under the radar and only come out when it's in there interest, just go to any Gurdwara in the UK, they're called committee members, like i said, each to their own.

 

You don't seem to understand the point that I am making.

If someone who didn't know Sarbjit saw him in the street would they know that he is a Sikh?  No.  So he flies under the radar.

Guru Gobind Singh mandated that his Singhs should be instantly recognizable.  He did that for a reason.  If you have an issue with that and think that it is meaningless or pointless, that is your choice. 

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Can we go back on topic please.

Police are extending days (remand). 

He was arrested on the 4th of November and it's been 24 days.

I agree with a post earlier on, MP's aren't really going to help. Peaceful protests in India won't help either. Protests may simply anger whoever is in charge and inflict the anger on Jaggi by further torture.

 

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