Did the Gurus have past lives?

[Guest]

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[Kira]

13 minutes ago, NonExistant said:

Wow. Cant believe this topic is still going. I guess u guys have your dasam duaar open and are probably mahapurakhs by now.

like just about everyone said we're hypothesising what we think happened, we're doing our own flawed interpretations and are not saying its fact. A brahmgyani did say that Mata Baala was MAta Sahib Kaur JI, but we're trying to piece together the story of her being Durga too. 

If you have any information on the topic it would be most welcome bro.

[JUSTAJATT]

I would add to this>>> but most sikhs wont grasp it unless they have spiritual experience.  Major learnig curve in abyaas is awakening to the realms that exist.  The granths and gurbani are actually talking about these and not physical earth plane.  We just plonkas for thinking that everything is here and in this planet

[MrDoaba]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:41 AM, Kira said:

Metaphorical. I believe it was Gyani Gyan Singh's work. He said Baba Deep Singh Ji did a Havan before battle but it was later explained it was a metaphorical havan where the fire he lit was the fire of Brahmgyan.

This is a point of contention amongst some Sikhs. Another time, another place.

On 11/12/2017 at 8:41 AM, Kira said:

Really the bani is eerily similar to alot of verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

Any particular ones which stand out?

On 11/12/2017 at 8:41 AM, Kira said:

I'd disagree here, Bhagauti is never used for Chandi/Durga/Kalika etc, Bhagauti is a seperate entity as its the Puran Shatki of Akaal. imo there's 2 possible theories for this. Firstly the Bhavani that appeared before Mata Ji wasn't Durga the wife of Shiva but Bhavani the puran Shakti of Akaal, as in the Shakti of Akaal manifested fully. The second theory is that Bhavani later became a title she was given due to the fact she fought like Durga against the demons, Sort of like how people will say certain people are so and so Devta as a way of conveying how strong they are. Heck Indra Gandhi was called Durga (laughable as she got riddled with bullets later on but its an example) and Baba Deep Singh Ji was described as being like Shiva doing the Tandava dance while destroying the enemy in defence of Harmandir Sahib.

This is a good point. As far as I know, there isn't any Goddess Bhagauti/Bhagwati in Sanatan Mat per say. I believe it's more of a generic term. I'm gonna get backlash for the way I put this but Bhaguati is almost the Goddess of Sikhi... *runs for cover*. Personification is a sin.

With the first theory it makes sense if you look at Shiv-Shakti from a Gurmat perspective. Second theory also makes sense if you continue with the the theme of Dasam Bani in general. In both cases I think it's just a matter of assigning names so the reader can relate in a familiar way.

On 11/12/2017 at 8:41 AM, Kira said:

This story isn't in the Gita I think, the story happened during or before the Mahabharata, its actually mentioned in Chaubis avatar too. Basically a Brahmin's children kept dying so Arjuna promised to stop Yamraj taking them by standing guard doing his wife's child birth but the child disappears, so Krishna takes him to Vaikuntha to get them back from his Vishnu Saroop and then basically teach him he shouldnt be so egoistical and assume he has a say in these things.

Now this makes it even more interesting. We've sort of already discerned that Maa Baala and Bhavani are the Puran Shakti of Akaal (correct me if I'm wrong), but if we are we go with the theory that it is in fact Mata Ji delivering the message to herself, what in your opinion, is the message here for the reader? Not to stray, along those lines?

[Kira]

On 13/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, MrDoaba said:

This is a point of contention amongst some Sikhs. Another time, another place.

Yeah, I take Gyani Ji's work with a pinch of salt in all honesty. 

Quote

Any particular ones which stand out?

ਸਹਸਬਾਹੁ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟ ਮਹਿਖਾਸਾ ॥ 
सहसबाहु मधु कीट महिखासा ॥ 
Sahasbāhu maḏẖ kīt mahikẖāsā. 
The Lord killed the thousand-armed Arjun, and the demons Madhu-keetab and Meh-khaasaa. 

ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਲੇ ਨਖਹੁ ਬਿਧਾਸਾ ॥ 
हरणाखसु ले नखहु बिधासा ॥ 
Harṇākẖas le nakẖahu biḏẖāsā. 
He seized Harnaakhash and tore him apart with his nails. 

ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥੬॥ 
दैत संघारे बिनु भगति अभिआसा ॥६॥ 
Ḏaiṯ sangẖāre bin bẖagaṯ abẖi▫āsā. ||6|| 
The demons were slain; they did not practice devotional worship. ||6|| 

ਜਰਾਸੰਧਿ ਕਾਲਜਮੁਨ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥ 
जरासंधि कालजमुन संघारे ॥ 
Jarāsanḏẖ kālajmun sangẖāre. 
The demons Jaraa-sandh and Kaal-jamun were destroyed. 

ਰਕਤਬੀਜੁ ਕਾਲੁਨੇਮੁ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥ 
रकतबीजु कालुनेमु बिदारे ॥ 
Rakaṯbīj kālunem biḏāre. 
Rakat-beej and Kaal-naym were annihilated. 

ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੭॥ 
दैत संघारि संत निसतारे ॥७॥ 
Ḏaiṯ sangẖār sanṯ nisṯāre. ||7|| 
Slaying the demons, the Lord saved His Saints. ||7|| 
 

Sounds alot like the second chand of Uggardanti.

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This is a good point. As far as I know, there isn't any Goddess Bhagauti/Bhagwati in Sanatan Mat per say. I believe it's more of a generic term. I'm gonna get backlash for the way I put this but Bhaguati is almost the Goddess of Sikhi... *runs for cover*. Personification is a sin.

Bhagauti is the a title of Durga/Ad-Shakti in Shaktism so yeah it is more of a title since it also means "deepest power" or "Primal Power"

God if you ever said that to certain people well imagine this to be their reaction. I mean I bet if they ever heard Sarbloh Granth portion where Guru Sahib says the Khalsa's father is Kaal Purkh and Kalika is the mother on whom's lap the Khalsa grows.

no but it is important to note that Bhaugati is the mother of the Khalsa, while Bhagauti and Akaal are the same and one they're different aspects of the same God. Akaal is beyond everything and the base of all of existence, he nourishes and resides everywhere. While Bhagauti is just Akaal but in a more active role.

Quote

Now this makes it even more interesting. We've sort of already discerned that Maa Baala and Bhavani are the Puran Shakti of Akaal (correct me if I'm wrong), but if we are we go with the theory that it is in fact Mata Ji delivering the message to herself, what in your opinion, is the message here for the reader? Not to stray, along those lines?

I think we misunderstood each other. Firstly in the story of Krishna and Arjun, the whole concept was that the person receiving the message was Arjun (he's meant to be us in this sense), while Krishna and Vishnu are the ones who orchestrate this whole Charitar (lets call it this). In the case of Mata Baala, Mata Ji = us, soul etc and Bhavani and Akaal = Krishna and Vishnu. 

So basically they would be separate in this instance.