Did the Gurus have past lives?

[MrDoaba]

24 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

You need an open mind to understand dasam granth and its history etc, cause otherwise its all gonna sound like bhamanvaad to you.

The real question is what's not considered Bhamanvaad these days? I'm surprised someone hasn't declared shastar to be Bhamanvaad seeing as Devi Devte used them first.

24 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Chandi charitars/chandi di vaar is like a biography of mata sahib devan in her previous janam

Bachitar natak goes into detail of when guru sahib was in his dusht daman janam

Now that you mention it, the whole concept makes more sense. Certainly cleared it up somewhat for me.

24 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

So im not sure that this makes me hindu or not but if it does then im a proud hindu of dasam granth

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Question for you now that you've started this Bhamanvaad, tell me more of the lineage of Guru Sahib i.e. Suryavanshi. I have only read about this briefly and people are reluctant to discuss it. Give us the jist.

Chetaavani - you're in a highly Hinduphobic environment.

[Kira]

9 hours ago, chatanga said:

Piqued.

I was half asleep when I wrote that lol, thanks for the correct though

[Kira]

5 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

You need an open mind to understand dasam granth and its history etc, cause otherwise its all gonna sound like bhamanvaad to you. 

Chandi charitars/chandi di vaar is like a biography of mata sahib devan in her previous janam

Bachitar natak goes into detail of when guru sahib was in his dusht daman janam

So im not sure that this makes me hindu or not but if it does then im a proud hindu of dasam granth

I thought Mata Sahib Kaur Ji was the incarnation of the woman in the 404th Charitar, not Chandi? as She desired to marry Akaal Purkh, Durga told her to do everything Akaal Purkh tells her to do so Akaal sends her to war against demons, She then prays for Akaal's help so he arrives to protect her and battle the demons. To fufil her desire of marriage to Akaal, She then incarnates as Mata Sahib Kaur Ji  and becomes the mother of the Khalsa and "wife" of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Thus Akaal fufils her desire.

The story you recounted, I've heard it but the entire thing was slightly different in the version I read. Basically Dusht Daman destroys the demons and Devi promises to serve him in Kalyug, in the form of a Shastar.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

The real question is what's not considered Bhamanvaad these days? I'm surprised someone hasn't declared shastar to be Bhamanvaad seeing as Devi Devte used them first.

Now that you mention it, the whole concept makes more sense. Certainly cleared it up somewhat for me.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Question for you now that you've started this Bhamanvaad, tell me more of the lineage of Guru Sahib i.e. Suryavanshi. I have only read about this briefly and people are reluctant to discuss it. Give us the jist.

Chetaavani - you're in a highly Hinduphobic environment.

So basically what the suryavanshi is its a whole lot of hindu things that our anti hindu people dont want to hear lol

Nah but jokes aside 

The bedis and sodhis are decendants of Ram chandar. Ram chandar had two sons luv and kush. From luv’s decendants the sodhis emerged and from kush’s decendants the bedis emerged. What happened was that kush and his family and lineage moved to kashi and hardiwar where they studied the 4 vedas etc hence why they are called bedi’s. Now the sodhi bans emerged from a decendant of luv whose name was kal rai. Kal rai had another brother kalket who banished kal rai from his kingdom, so kal rai then married the princess of sanaudh which then became sodhi bans. 

Then we know that the first sodhi guru was guru ram das ji maharaj and then all his rishtedars are all sodhis and to this day are all decendants of luv. 

ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਲੀ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਲਰਾਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਗਰ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥

Kalket was a mighty warrior, who drove out Kal Rai from his city.

ਭਾਜਿ ਸਨੌਢ ਦੇਸਿ ਤੇ ਗਏ ॥ ਤਹੀ ਭੂਪਜਾ ਬਿਆਹਤ ਭਏ ॥੨੮॥

Kal Rai settled in the country named Sanaudh and married the king’s daughter.28.

ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਧਾਮਾ ॥ ਸੋਢੀ ਰਾਇ ਧਰਾ ਤਿਹਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥

A son was born to him, who was named Sodhi Rai.

ਬੰਸ ਸਨੌਢ ਤਦਿਨ ਤੇ ਥੀਆ ॥ ਪਰਮ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਪੁਰਖ ਜੂ ਕੀਆ ॥੨੯॥

Sodhi Rai was the founder of Sanaudh dynasty by the Will of the Supreme Purusha.29.

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੌਤ੍ਰ ਹੁਇ ਆਇ ॥ ਤੇ ਸੋਢੀ ਸਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾਏ ॥

His sons and grandsons were called sodhis.

ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੁ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸਿਧਾ ॥ ਦਿਨ ਦਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਧਨ ਕੀ ਬ੍ਰਿਧਾ ॥੩੦॥

They became very famous in the world and gradually prospered in wealth.30.

Now on stuff like shastars and other things there are still marks of suryavansh. I will post some pics of some examples that even budha dal today uses

So that is sorta the gist of it

 

According to giani gian singh ji in panth parkash he says that when a sikh becomes a khalsa by taking amrit he loses his previous caste and becomes a kashatri and part of the suryavansh

ਜਾਂ ਦਿਨ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਤ ਯਹਿ, ਰਹਤ ਨ ਪਿਛਲੀ ਜਾਤਿ । 

On that day when you take Amrit [Khandey Di Pahul], the commandment is that you do not have a previous Caste.

ਜ੍ਯੋਂ ਭ੍ਰਿੰਗੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੀਟ ਤੈ, ਤ੍ਯੋਂ ਸਿਖ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਤਿ ॥੨੪॥

In the same way a Bhringi, which transforms a [low] insect into a beautiful butterfly, a Sikh turns [beautiful] and adopts the Gurus Caste.

ਸੂਰਜ ਬੰਸੀ ਦਸਮ ਗੁਰੁ, ਛੱਤ੍ਰੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ।

The Tenth Guru is from the Suraj Bans [Lineage], the famous Kshatriya caste.

ਯਾਹੀਂ ਤੇ ਸਭਿ ਖਾਲਸਾ, ਛੱਤ੍ਰੀ ਬਰਣ ਅਬਿੱਧ ॥੨੫॥ 

In this way all the Khalsa turn into one of Kshastriya. [Naveen Panth Prakash, pg. 1581, Vol. 3]

 

[Guest]

Budha dal uses suraj mukhis to reperesent the suryavansh

The other pictures are of shastars showing suraj mukhis on shastar hilts

[Kira]

adding to what @Singh123456777 is saying, Guru Sahib didn't just welcome Sikhs into his family (the Khalsa) he also gave them the crest of the Suryavash too, Sikhs were instructed to say that was their Lineage after taking Amrit. 

[MrDoaba]

31 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

kush’s decendants the bedis emerged

Would I be correct in assuming that this is Guru Nanak Dev Jis lineage?

21 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

suraj mukhis to reperesent the suryavansh

Does this mean by using sunflower oil I'm unwittingly committing an act of Bhamanvaad?

 

Thanks for the info btw. Are there any more sources which mention this? And thanks for the pictures too, they're brilliant.

[MrDoaba]

23 minutes ago, Kira said:

he also gave them the crest of the Suryavash too

I'm also wondering if the use of the aad chand has similar origins - one of the other Kshatri lineages are called 'Somvanshi' or 'Chandarvanshi'? Of course I'm just speculating but do you think it's a possibility?

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Would I be correct in assuming that this is Guru Nanak Dev Jis lineage?

Does this mean by using sunflower oil I'm unwittingly committing an act of Bhamanvaad?

 

Thanks for the info btw. Are there any more sources which mention this? And thanks for the pictures too, they're brilliant.

Yes guru nanak dev ji was from the bedi clan

 

Yep, you are commiting the biggest amount of bhamanvaad allowed

[MrDoaba]

1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

The bedis and sodhis are decendants of Ram chandar.

10 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Yep, you are commiting the biggest amount of bhamanvaad allowed

Here's a Punjabi explanation of my Bhamanvaadi: