A question from a Muslim - ragmala

[Not2Cool2Argue]

Ive also heard that during uthmans time there were multiple different copies of the quran. And uthman had one verified and burned all the others. That is why there is only one version. He chode one version and forced it on.all the muslims. That is the benefit of having a strong jathedaar. About the quran, its not compiled in chronological order.  Its divided into chapters. Like chapter about women. Chapter about heavens. If muhammed had had it writtwn down it makes sense that he could rearrange it from  chronological  to some other order.But what right did other people have to rearrange it? Muslims could say muhammed told the hafiz to remember it in a different order, but its hard to change the order of something that is not written. Listen to Tarek Fatah on youtube. He is a muslim who speaks up against extremists.

Please double check wat i wrote as its all hearsay. 

[Not2Cool2Argue]

Also about raagmala, say it is the composition of Guruji and waheguru. If some people do not have the mindset to realize it, it does not make it false. Yes, you can say that if it was checked why is there controversy.say there can be controversy about anything. In america ppl believe the earth is flat, that america never went to.the moon, that 911 was done by Bush. If ppl can argue about things that are contemporary and happened within their lifetime then why not with historical things? Say raag mala has historically always been followed just recently some ppl began doubting it. Say thats to be expected as the religion gets older. Look at how.many sects there are in christianity and islam. In fact, the most evil ppl in the world that kill innocent ppl ans throw bombs at little girls concerts and sell slaves are saying they do it in the name of islam. And then there are good muslims who started Humanity First organization. So if these ppl reading the same book can be so different and controversial, where al qaida says  the others are not muslim and the others say al qaida are not muslim.

DISCLAIMER: I personally  think believing in raagmala is ur choice and should not be enforced.it is just for arguments sake that i took the stance above.

 

[Guest LS93 Lakhvir Singh]

This Guest Lion King seems like a fake sikh just trying to see what our views are on Ragmala. Just look at the way he worded his posts. He hasnt got a clue to Gurbani nor has faith, respect towards Sikhi. 

[Guest Ragmala]

Thanks for all your answers - I'll ask my friend about the questions about Quran and do my own research -

as for ragmala - if all of the SGGS was written down completely then why is there an issue with ragmala ? Can someone give me a straightforward answer ... 

thanks 

[Guest Kahan singh]

Its not good to put question mark on anyones faith and religion but still I can tell you about their Qur’an.

Muslims brothers defend their Qurans ideology by a triangular logic.

1. First they prove that Quran is a word of God because Mohammad said so.

2. Then when you ask what is the proof that Mohammad is a true messenger, they will say,  beacuse God says so.

3. When you ask what is the proof that God said that Mohammad is a holy man, they will say because Quran says so.

I have gone through every single aayat and surahs of Quran, it’s purely a work of fiction. If you read the history, its written that on the day of revealing Quran , Mohammad was very very sick probably having fever temperature of 106 degree if you compare it with todays thermal.

and science says that if a person is so ill, he cannot differentiate between dream and awake state, as a result of which he feels his dreams to be a reality.

something similar happen with Mohammad, he taught whatever he imagined. Read the Quran nd u will find the proofs. Its all about rape.killings.slay who are not muslims and all that

thanks

[Guest Muhammad Qureshi]

TheReligionofPeace.com

Guide to Understanding Islam

 

 

What does the

Religion of Peace

Teach About...

Slavery and Sex Slavery

Question:

Does Islam condone slavery?

Does Islamic teaching allow Muslim men to keep women as sex slaves?

Summary Answer:

Islam neither ignores nor condemns slavery.

In fact, a large part of the Sharia is dedicated to the practice.

Muslims are encouraged to live in the way of Muhammad, who was a slave owner and trader.

He captured slaves in battle. He had sex with his slaves. And he instructed his men to do the same. The Qur'an actually devotes more verses to making sure that Muslim men know they can keep women as sex slaves (4) than it does to telling them to pray five times a day (0).

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" This is one of several personal-sounding verses "from Allah" narrated by Muhammad - in this case allowing himself a virtually unlimited supply of sex partners. Other Muslims are restrained to four wives, but, following the example of their prophet, may also have sex with any number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part. The Muslim slave master may enjoy his "catch" because (according to verse 71) "Allah gave you mastery over them."

Qur'an (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.

Qur'an (2:178) - "O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).

Qur'an (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah." Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah's will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah's gifts on slaves - those whom the god of Islam has not favored).

[Guest Muhammad Qureshi]

LionKing bro don't worry Islam's pedophilia is being exposed now big time

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Ive also heard that during uthmans time there were multiple different copies of the quran. And uthman had one verified and burned all the others. That is why there is only one version. He chode one version and forced it on.all the muslims. That is the benefit of having a strong jathedaar. About the quran, its not compiled in chronological order.  Its divided into chapters. Like chapter about women. Chapter about heavens. If muhammed had had it writtwn down it makes sense that he could rearrange it from  chronological  to some other order.But what right did other people have to rearrange it? Muslims could say muhammed told the hafiz to remember it in a different order, but its hard to change the order of something that is not written. Listen to Tarek Fatah on youtube. He is a muslim who speaks up against extremists.

Please double check wat i wrote as its all hearsay. 

a strong jathedar or a major tyrant/usurper....Mohammed never stated qureshi as being higher than regular muslims, there was no royalty specified, and no Mohammed wrote chronologically that's why there is a marked difference between earlier and later parts in content and temperment. Interesting how he could not convince his own tribe at all , then suddenly after his death , his family is under attack and then the Quresh are superior muslims and only they can be elders 

If so many people who had memorised quran passages had died , how did they get a complete quran from the remainder as there were very few people who were hafiz or close to Mohammed? 

then there were over 10 different qurans by time of Uthman ... who was not a scholar, but a warlord...

[Guest Lionking]

Ok all the stuff about Quran i will ask my Muslim friend and I will read it myself to make my own mind up 

the reason I came to this forum was to ask about the Ragmala ? Can anyone answer those questions please ... namely ...

if we have the SGGS in writing, why is there an issue over Ragmala ? can someone explain the issue to me?

 

[Kira]

4 hours ago, Guest Lionking said:

Ok all the stuff about Quran i will ask my Muslim friend and I will read it myself to make my own mind up 

the reason I came to this forum was to ask about the Ragmala ? Can anyone answer those questions please ... namely ...

if we have the SGGS in writing, why is there an issue over Ragmala ? can someone explain the issue to me?

 

you already have your answer. Your muslims friend will bring up more donkey faeces to cover up the fact that historically the chain of authenticity of the Quran was broken, but its still written by Muhammad.  

The issue of Raagmala was started by a few idiots, you know? the same kind of idiots in Islam that don't buy into the Quran being the word of God or that Muhammad was the final messenger. The fact that it irks you is really rather suspicious.