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YOYO29

What does Sikhi say on slavery ?

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YOYO29    53

I have been on this forum for quite a long time now and gradually I have developed a keen interest in Sikhism.So,I was just wondering what does Sikhi say on slavery ? Does it condemn openly or it is silent on this issue ? Please give your answer with reference from Sikh scriptures.Thank you

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SoulSingh    51

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ 

Manas Ki jaat sabhe ikey pehchaanbo

-See all of humankind as one caste (attacking the social ideas of hierarchy) 

Aval Allah Noor upai kudrat ke sabh banday, ek noor te sabh jag upjay koun bhalle kou manday

-The creator has infused each with a diamond (soul), they are all creatures of nature, upon one light the entire play (of life) was created (Can also mean: everyone has the creators light) .. Who is worse, who is better (again giving not just every human equality, but every single organism in the universe equality)

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ 

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Jacfsing2    1,845
25 minutes ago, SoulSingh said:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ 

Manas Ki jaat sabhe ikey pehchaanbo

-See all of humankind as one caste (attacking the social ideas of hierarchy) 

Aval Allah Noor upai kudrat ke sabh banday, ek noor te sabh jag upjay koun bhalle kou manday

-The creator has infused each with a diamond (soul), they are all creatures of nature, upon one light the entire play (of life) was created (Can also mean: everyone has the creators light) .. Who is worse, who is better (again giving not just every human equality, but every single organism in the universe equality)

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ 

:waheguru:

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YOYO29    53
31 minutes ago, SoulSingh said:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ 

Manas Ki jaat sabhe ikey pehchaanbo

Thanks for your reply.bro i'm asking for some verse in Gurbani which explicitly says that from now on slavery is banned and no human can enslave another human. Or there is no such thing verse in Gurbani because slavery was not common in India in those times so gurus did not know about it ?? Can that be the case ?

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Jacfsing2    1,845
2 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:

Thanks for your reply.bro i'm asking for some verse in Gurbani which explicitly says that from now on slavery is banned and no human can enslave another human. Or there is no such thing verse in Gurbani because slavery was not common in India in those times so gurus did not know about it ?? Can that be the case ?

The Gurus were All-knowing, when the first Guru, came on the Earth in a human form there was a Sakhi on someone who exploited people, (his name, I forgot), and there was Bhai Lalo. In one of their rotis blood came and the other milk.

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BhForce    529
29 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:

Thanks for your reply.bro i'm asking for some verse in Gurbani which explicitly says that from now on slavery is banned and no human can enslave another human. Or there is no such thing verse in Gurbani because slavery was not common in India in those times so gurus did not know about it ?? Can that be the case ?

The answer is simply that there is no such verse in the way you are asking. But that's simply because Gurbani is not the same as the Koran Sharif or the Holy Bible. These two works have a lot of wordly commands setting up human social systems. Gurbani is simply much more (99%) concerned with spirituality.

That said, slavery has never been part of Sikhism. No Guru owned a slave, and neither did any Sikh, then or now. And won't in the future.

It is true that the pro-equality and anti-caste verses could be interpreted and extended to be thought anti-slavery. The following verse could possibly be interpreted to be anti-slavery:

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਇਐ ਬੈਸਣਾ ਸਾਂਈ ਮੁਝੈ ਨ ਦੇਹਿ ॥

Fareedhaa Baar Paraaeiai Baisanaa Saanee Mujhai N Dhaehi ||

Fareed begs, O Lord, do not make me sit at another's door.

ਸਲੋਕ ਫਰੀਦ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਫਰੀਦ) (੪੨):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੮੦ ਪੰ. ੧ 
Salok Baba Sheikh Farid

ਜੇ ਤੂ ਏਵੈ ਰਖਸੀ ਜੀਉ ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥੪੨॥

Jae Thoo Eaevai Rakhasee Jeeo Sareerahu Laehi ||42||

If this is the way you are going to keep me, then go ahead and take the life out of my body. ||42||

ਸਲੋਕ ਫਰੀਦ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਫਰੀਦ) (੪੨):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੮੦ ਪੰ. ੨ 
Salok Baba Sheikh Farid p1380

 

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YOYO29    53
10 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji spoke against Caste system which is through manipulation has become a slave system where people are trapped by accident of birth into remaining at the bottom of the pile

I know that, Abolishing caste system and granting equal status to women is what sets sikhism apart from other religion.But i'm talking about slavery which is different from caste system.Once a person is enslaved his life no longer remains his.He has to serve his master,fulfill his/her sexual needs.I think now u see my point,there is difference between caste system and slavery.Although caste system is also bad but slavery is worse. So is there any explicit order from any Guru which prohibits slavery ? Or since slavery was not as common in India as was in Arabia so nobody paid any attention to it ?

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jkvlondon    3,419
Just now, YOYO29 said:

I know that, Abolishing caste system and granting equal status to women is what sets sikhism apart from other religion.But i'm talking about slavery which is different from caste system.Once a person is enslaved his life no longer remains his.He has to serve his master,fulfill his/her sexual needs.I think now u see my point,there is difference between caste system and slavery.Although caste system is also bad but slavery is worse. So is there any explicit order from any Guru which prohibits slavery ? Or since slavery was not as common in India as was in Arabia so nobody paid any attention to it ?

with the advent of invaders it become a problem and Guru ji spoke against both types .

He describes in Baburvani  the condition of the women taken as  slaves irrespective of faith

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BhForce    529
1 hour ago, YOYO29 said:

Does it condemn openly or it is silent on this issue ?

BTW, it would be extremely misleading to say that Gurbani being "silent" on this issue means that a Sikh can either have a slave or not have a slave, no problems, because Gurbani is "silent".

Gurbani is also silent on the issue of cannibalism, incest, and a whole host of other things. 

The thing is, it simply has not ever occurred to a Sikh to tell another human being that "you are now my slave, your fruit of your labor is now owned by me without compensation, and you can't leave me, either". In fact, the word Ghulam (slave) is imported from Arab/Persian lands, just like the word Talaak (divorce).

You could say that Gurbani is "silent" on slavery, but slavery is not allowed by Sikhism, which encompasses more than just Gurbani.

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YOYO29    53
10 minutes ago, BhForce said:

It is true that the pro-equality and anti-caste verses could be interpreted and extended to be thought anti-slavery. The following verse could possibly be interpreted to be anti-slavery:

I think it answers my query 

2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

BTW, it would be extremely misleading to say that Gurbani being "silent" on this issue means that a Sikh can either have a slave or not have a slave, no problems, because Gurbani is "silent".

This was certainly not my intention.Please keep in mind English is not my mother language and neither do I have studied in English medium schools.I have been to Urdu medium schools in all my life.So sometimes I have a hard time choosing the right word for expressing myself or asking any questions.

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YOYO29    53
8 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

He describes in Baburvani  the condition of the women taken as  slaves irrespective of faith

Is it available in pdf form ?

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BhForce    529
9 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

with the advent of invaders it become a problem and Guru ji spoke against both types .

He describes in Baburvani  the condition of the women taken as  slaves irrespective of faith

Well, OK, but you have to admit it is merely a glancing mention by Guru Sahib. And it's only a mention of dishonoring of women, not really of ongoing sex slavery. And also not of "normal" slavery of men.

Now, I"m not saying slavery is OK because Gurbani doesn't mention it. To the contrary.

But, it's a blow to those Sikhs who naively say that they will only follow Guru Granth Sahib and nothing else. The fact is there is a whole host of stuff we are to do and not do which is not really explicitly mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib.

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YOYO29    53
14 minutes ago, BhForce said:

just like the word Talaak (divorce).

you mean to say that there is no word for divorce in Sikhi or in Punjabi language ? Just curious to know how divorce is done in Sikhism ? or marriage is a life long thing just like Catholics ?

Edited by YOYO29

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