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Premi5

How Important is Punjabi Language for Sikhs?

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Was just thinking. Most of Gurbani is not in punjabi. Most of it is in allied/sister languages. 

I am thinking this might have been deliberate in the sense that our Gurus were opening doors for people from different lands/cultures like other parts of Indian sub-continent and Middle East to adopt Sikhi more easily. 

So, for example, could Sikhi still flourish even if most of it's population in future spoke, say, Hindi or Urdu or Marathi as their first language, and they were not culturally Punjabi?

Does anyone know the syllabus of Sikh schools in India, like Baru Sahib-run institutions? Do they teach sanskrit or Farsi or other Indian languages apart from Hindi and Punjabi?

Please share your throughts

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On 09/09/2017 at 5:06 AM, Premi5 said:

Was just thinking. Most of Gurbani is not in punjabi. Most of it is in allied/sister languages. 

I am thinking this might have been deliberate in the sense that our Gurus were opening doors for people from different lands/cultures like other parts of Indian sub-continent and Middle East to adopt Sikhi more easily. 

So, for example, could Sikhi still flourish even if most of it's population in future spoke, say, Hindi or Urdu or Marathi as their first language, and they were not culturally Punjabi?

Does anyone know the syllabus of Sikh schools in India, like Baru Sahib-run institutions? Do they teach sanskrit or Farsi or other Indian languages apart from Hindi and Punjabi?

Please share your throughts

At baru sahib they do not yeach sanskrit or farsi. They teach panjabi and english. Probably hindi too. Students r very busy there. They have science...normal school till 4 then they have kirtan tabla or dhadi vaaran. Then sports. Then evening diwaan. Then tuition where they do hw. Then sleep so they can wake up early for morning diwaans

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High Importance should be given to Gurmukhi more than other languages. No language is perfect except Gurmukhi which Guru sahib ji created for the perfection reason.

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15 hours ago, S1ngh said:

High Importance should be given to Gurmukhi more than other languages. No language is perfect except Gurmukhi which Guru sahib ji created for the perfection reason.

Is that true? Gurmukhi is more a medium for language rather than language itself

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We need to think why our guru sahib ji invented 35 akhar instead of adopting any other readily available language? Our guru sahib inventing a language naturally means that we sikhs need to learn how to read, write and speak Punjabi regardless of where we resides. It must be one of the qualification of calling ourself Sikh. 

We also should (after learning Punjabi) to try to learn other languages as well like Urdu etc.

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On 9/9/2017 at 4:06 AM, Premi5 said:

Was just thinking. Most of Gurbani is not in punjabi. Most of it is in allied/sister languages. 

I am thinking this might have been deliberate in the sense that our Gurus were opening doors for people from different lands/cultures like other parts of Indian sub-continent and Middle East to adopt Sikhi more easily. 

So, for example, could Sikhi still flourish even if most of it's population in future spoke, say, Hindi or Urdu or Marathi as their first language, and they were not culturally Punjabi?

Does anyone know the syllabus of Sikh schools in India, like Baru Sahib-run institutions? Do they teach sanskrit or Farsi or other Indian languages apart from Hindi and Punjabi?

Please share your throughts

I often think about this too. I agree that most of Gurbani is not in Punjabi and even the few parts that are in Punjabi, are in a very archaic form that is not clearly understood by the modern-day speaker. I still however think that Punjabi Sikhs (not all Sikhs) should be imparting Punjabi to their oncoming generations. Punjabi is the language of our ancestors and is a part of our identity. I've often noticed that the kids that do speak Punjabi are the ones that are more likely to be proud of who they are, and not feel insecure about their identity. The ones that are disconnected from Punjabi are the ones that have outlandish and shaky ideas regarding not only themselves but Sikhi as well, especially my Hindi speaking "Sikh" cousins, forgive me for judging them. So, if you want your oncoming generations to know who they are, where they come from, imparting Punjabi is a great initiative.

But all Sikhs need to be imparting something far more important, and that is Gurmukhi. Not the language, but the script. I think that if we can get Mandarin, Arabic, Russian, Spanish, English written in the Gurmukhi script, then that is the ultimate way Sikhi can flourish. Most Sikh youth today cannot read Gurmukhi, and thus are experiencing a disconnect from Sikhi. I myself have only recently learnt Gurmukhi and it makes a huge difference once reading the GGS straight up, rather than having to read English translations.

Edited by TejS
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On 09/09/2017 at 2:06 AM, Premi5 said:

Was just thinking. Most of Gurbani is not in punjabi. Most of it is in allied/sister languages. 

I am thinking this might have been deliberate in the sense that our Gurus were opening doors for people from different lands/cultures like other parts of Indian sub-continent and Middle East to adopt Sikhi more easily. 

So, for example, could Sikhi still flourish even if most of it's population in future spoke, say, Hindi or Urdu or Marathi as their first language, and they were not culturally Punjabi?

Does anyone know the syllabus of Sikh schools in India, like Baru Sahib-run institutions? Do they teach sanskrit or Farsi or other Indian languages apart from Hindi and Punjabi?

Please share your throughts

No translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in any language can equal Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  Others languages are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji but in Gurmukhi script. Why write Sanskrit in Gurmukhi? A question you should be asking is why didn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji do Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language like Urdu? Language is more or less a medium as you say. Why did Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji take all the different languages and write them in Gurmukhi script only in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.   

Anyone who as tried translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language can tell you.  Firstly other languages cannot grasp what is said.  Many words used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji are not in other languages. So lets replace the word with a phrase that will capture the word.  The problem arises here because the word that was replaced by a phrase is not the image of the Guru but what a person may think of the word. The word can't be simply replaced by a phrase. The translator can't grasp what is said with his limited intellect and then fails because the other language is limited in various ways.  Only the Guru can fully deliver the message.  3ho are a prime example of what terrible mistakes are made when the translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language is done.  Even some of the 3ho are recognizing the huge mistake made by their leadership and are learning Gurmukhi to actually see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji grace.

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I agree with Akalifauj.

Translation to other languages leads to distortion of Guru's true message.

Bhuk Chuk maaf ji..

 

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12 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

No translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in any language can equal Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  Others languages are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji but in Gurmukhi script. Why write Sanskrit in Gurmukhi? A question you should be asking is why didn't Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji do Parkash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language like Urdu? Language is more or less a medium as you say. Why did Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji take all the different languages and write them in Gurmukhi script only in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.   

Anyone who as tried translating Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language can tell you.  Firstly other languages cannot grasp what is said.  Many words used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji are not in other languages. So lets replace the word with a phrase that will capture the word.  The problem arises here because the word that was replaced by a phrase is not the image of the Guru but what a person may think of the word. The word can't be simply replaced by a phrase. The translator can't grasp what is said with his limited intellect and then fails because the other language is limited in various ways.  Only the Guru can fully deliver the message.  3ho are a prime example of what terrible mistakes are made when the translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in a different language is done.  Even some of the 3ho are recognizing the huge mistake made by their leadership and are learning Gurmukhi to actually see Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji grace.

 

2 hours ago, SinghG said:

I agree with Akalifauj.

Translation to other languages leads to distortion of Guru's true message.

Bhuk Chuk maaf ji..

 

I agree with this also. The full experience of Gurbani is also lost. Just hope shabads aren't sung in translated versions. 

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I can read write Hindi/Urdu which are basically the same when spoken.

But nothing matches my mother tongue Punjabi, such a sweet language.

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On 9/12/2017 at 9:41 PM, Dsinghdp said:

I can read write Hindi/Urdu which are basically the same when spoken.

 

wow.How much time did it take you to learn Urdu ? I have been thinking to learn Gurmukhi for a long time.And now a days i'm free so i'm planing to give it a go,anyone here can tell me how much time is required to learn Gurmukhi on average ?  

Edited by YOYO29

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1 hour ago, YOYO29 said:

wow.How much time did it take you to learn Urdu ? I have been thinking to learn Gurmukhi for a long time.And now a days i'm free so i'm planing to give it a go,anyone here can tell me how much time is required to learn Gurmukhi on average ?  

Www.ukindia.com - is the website I learnt Hindi and Urdu from. It took a few weeks.

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1 hour ago, YOYO29 said:

wow.How much time did it take you to learn Urdu ? I have been thinking to learn Gurmukhi for a long time.And now a days i'm free so i'm planing to give it a go,anyone here can tell me how much time is required to learn Gurmukhi on average ?  

Well, if you can learn Urdu, you should be able to easily learn Gurmukhi.

The reason is that Urdu is a square peg fitted into a round hole. I.e., the Urdu (Arabic) alphabet was created for Arabic, not Punjabi.

By contrast, Gurmukhi was specially created for Punjabi, and it includes vowel marks, too. For the most part (once you learn some simple rules), you speak words as they are written.

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4 hours ago, Dsinghdp said:

It took a few weeks.

That's cool.I will definitely give a shot to Gurmukhi.

 

4 hours ago, BhForce said:

By contrast, Gurmukhi was specially created for Punjabi, and it includes vowel marks, too. For the most part (once you learn some simple rules), you speak words as they are written.

Hmm.Do you know best site for learning Gurmukhi online ? 

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8 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:

That's cool.I will definitely give a shot to Gurmukhi.

 

Hmm.Do you know best site for learning Gurmukhi online ? 

There's quite a few sites, but I've picked out some I thought that may help. 

@dallysingh101 paji used to talk about this:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/14814-learning-to-read-write-gurmukhipanjabi-tips-on-getting-started/

 

Sikh channel - Learn Gurmukhi with kids:

http://www.sikhchannel.tv/catch-up/learn-gurmukhi/

 

Bhai Jagraj Singh:

 

Sangat TV:

 

PS: ( Not seen Dally or MisterrSingh pajis on the forum in a while. Are they still members? )

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