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Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?


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20 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Ajeet...what do you think I'm doing here in this forum my brother? Seeking apology? For what? And you say it takes two to tango and in same breath you say don't go to gurudwara, no one is forcing you. Brother...ek haath se taali nahi bajti...I'm requesting you to not hurt...and you are telling me to introspect...what do you think I have done that I'm here? Who is blaming sikhs? Did I even mention it? How did you deduce it? Mere bhai...taali meri gaal pe baja ke kuch shanti milti ho to aisa hi sahi...

I can't stop words coming from your mouth just like you couldn't in case of your hindu friend. But I also would have not let go the opportunity to put him on his behind if he had committed such disrespect.

I can't stop what MY RSS is doing and you can't rein in the conduct of various factions in SGPC. Circle of concern and circle of influence. We have our concerns Ajeet about which we can't do anything  but what are we doing with issues that we have influence on? This is why Im here. We should be doing our bit to reduce this hatred by inviting eachother my brother. Not push away by saying no one is forcing you to go to gurudwara. It takes two to tango. I am here my brother with open mind and open heart.

I have not against most Hindus. I m only against the ones who deliberately insult my faith or spread lies, as in the case of senior colleague i mentioned 

Having read Upanishads a little, i think its beautiful universal philosophy. Too bad its not preached in hindu society the way polytheism and jyotish is spread which do little for spiritual elevation. 

I m not interested in slapping anyone as diplomacy is first sikh philosophy. 

"When all peaceful means have failed, only then it is rightful to draw the sword"

I m not weak enough to take my colleagues angst on someone else. I m more mature than that. 

Forgiveness is virtue, Forgetting is foolishness. 

I think relation between most hindus nd sikhs are friendly. Stop obsessing 

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2 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Preetji

Satshriakal

Thank you for your kind words that are so true to the essence of your belief. I too have used and still use this old adage of silent majority and vocal minority. But this is now doing irreparable damage as is evident from the Youtube video you watched. The hate has even engulfed the sense of social etiquette/maryada that the 2 parties couldn't even control their hatred in front of a camera. The silent majority should now become vocal and work towards the hope of slowly shrinking that vocal minority. Just imagine how a generation brought up on hate would bring up their progeny. I can't even imagine how much hatred a Sikh child would have for my child if the father of that Sikh child hates hindus. 

At the same time it's a personal choice/tolerance/stand if one engages in inoccuous banter which again should be within the confines of social etiquette/maryaada. Moreover the key to humour is self-deprecation and it's golden rule is that if you give it, you need to have the maturity to take it too. And I engage in such banter with my very best Sikh friend, who was the one sitting next to me in the gurudwara that day and held my hand when I wanted to stand up in midst of that speech. I have him to thank for keeping me in confines of the etiquette/maryaada that day.

Thank you

Siddharth

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji Ki fateh, ji

Sat Sri Akal, ji! I understand what you're saying, but it would be hard to explain that to them because they have already made up their minds.. I think people should just be told once, after that just let them be since they will accumulate karmas, and justice will be served. They say Kalyug is going to get worse anyways ;( Personally speaking, I can't do much about it, so I practice bhakti to receive shanti for the mind + body and inspire others to practice pavitr karmas too if they ask me for help. Satya, Swachhta, Bhakti, & Daya are neccesary. Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki Fateh

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To Siddhartha, I actually to think you are a troll. I'll end it at that and am not going to participate in your thread, because I do see it as exactly how you've written it in the title as an insult to the whole Sikh panth. Write what you like in fancy words and long vocabulary. Yes I do think you are one of those people that cannot bear Sikhs making awareness about 1984, however way it's done, you'd probably have something to complain out. I'm not going to bow down to you and apologise for an experience that you've had like the others did. You asking if I had an experience like that, what would I do.  I've experienced 100 times worse than what you've been through with people of your religion.  You'd be quite surprised to what I've had to deal with in my life,  the list of experiences would be 10 pages long or more, not just one of experience as yours. But I've stop communicating with those Hindu and Punjabi friends that I had bad experiences with. I've had to listen to the Sikh jokes directly and been manipulated into turning about my own religion, I've had all this bakwas from your religion trying to belittle Sikhs and making out we are troublemakers or cause fights with Hindus and had threats and my life endangered when I did oppose of what was being told to us, to Sikhs to go against their own faith.  What did I do? I simply left those people that gave me grief and turned to Guruji and it's the best thing I did. But that doesn't mean I think all Hindus are bad, there are good and bad people in every faith/religion. 

Your experience is nothing to what our family have been through, but we don't go around saying "Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"  That's because we know the whole community is not at fault, as you are asking about the Sikh community. 

Tu ik ceremony di gal karda? Sade te kehi saal lang gey c is bakwas ch. You've had one experience from a visit to the Gurdwara, whereas I've lost loved one in my family and have to live with it for the rest of my life and still we dont openly tell people what we've been through and accept it as past and try to carry on with the best we can. How would I feel, you ask? 

I feel this: 

 

 

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Guest Jacfsing2
3 hours ago, simran345 said:

To Siddhartha, I actually to think you are a troll. I'll end it at that and am not going to participate in your thread, because I do see it as exactly how you've written it in the title as an insult to the whole Sikh panth. Write what you like in fancy words and long vocabulary. Yes I do think you are one of those people that cannot bear Sikhs making awareness about 1984, however way it's done, you'd probably have something to complain out. I'm not going to bow down to you and apologise for an experience that you've had like the others did. You asking if I had an experience like that, what would I do.  I've experienced 100 times worse than what you've been through with people of your religion.  You'd be quite surprised to what I've had to deal with in my life,  the list of experiences would be 10 pages long or more, not just one of experience as yours. But I've stop communicating with those Hindu and Punjabi friends that I had bad experiences with. I've had to listen to the Sikh jokes directly and been manipulated into turning about my own religion, I've had all this bakwas from your religion trying to belittle Sikhs and making out we are troublemakers or cause fights with Hindus and had threats and my life endangered when I did oppose of what was being told to us, to Sikhs to go against their own faith.  What did I do? I simply left those people that gave me grief and turned to Guruji and it's the best thing I did. But that doesn't mean I think all Hindus are bad, there are good and bad people in every faith/religion. 

Your experience is nothing to what our family have been through, but we don't go around saying "Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"  That's because we know the whole community is not at fault, as you are asking about the Sikh community. 

Tu ik ceremony di gal karda? Sade te kehi saal lang gey c is bakwas ch. You've had one experience from a visit to the Gurdwara, whereas I've lost loved one in my family and have to live with it for the rest of my life and still we dont openly tell people what we've been through and accept it as past and try to carry on with the best we can. How would I feel, you ask? 

I feel this: 

 

 

:waheguru:

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Guest Jacfsing2
10 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

Hello Simran

Title is a Title and is a question. Not a statement or my belief. There is a difference. So if I title a discussion as Should same-sex marriage be allowed/legalised, it doesn't in any way implies what I stand for. Or would it mean any different if it would be " Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

When I wrote:

"I'm here because I now feel that either the teachings, teachers, interpretations or the followers of Sikhism themselves are in the wrong or being guided with malacious intent."

See that there is a use of word either followed by options that I feel might not have been executed in a righteous way.

My quote:

"Are Sikhs somehow being taught this disrespect through the family unit, gurudwaras, community congregations, media? "

Again a question put across to everyone includinf you to encourage discourse. Not a statement of my belief.

Now to address your question as to why I did not draw parallel between a Walmart store manager and a Gurudwara Commitee. Firstly the issue is not discrimination. I wasn't stopped from entering the gurudwara, wasn't directed to sit in a hindu only corner, wasn't asked to leave telling me that I couldn't attend a specific ceremony, wasn't stopped from approaching the granth sahib & prostrating in front of it, wasn't denied parshad, wasn't stopped from helping in the langar, wasn't stopped to partake langar, wasn't asked to leave after the langar and wasn't mistreated in anyway. So I had nothing to complain about in terms of discrimination/racism. I am not sure whether you go to a hindu temple so lets use your hindu friend's home for this example. Would you feel discriminated if you went to one of your hindu friends home for a pooja and the pundit there in his sermons start saying:

"that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc."

Again, before you put the above example in quote, I am telling you that it's an example and not a statement of my belief.

So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options.

You would take one that you think is in realm of your understanding of etiquette. Ofcourse it is very normal to approach someone directly who has offended you and lot of people still take that course. You are presuming here that I didn't have a conversation with the father of that 8 year old boy. But why do you need to know whether I approached the father and/or the gurudwara committee? What would that tell you? Whether I'm confident or not? Whether I'm educated or not? Whether I'm courageous or timid? Doesn't it suffice that I have with open heart approached this forum community including you with a question? If your hindu/sikh friend would approach you that he/she felt hurt would you try to discuss why's and how's  or would you ask what did he/she do to address that hurt? 

How does the title come across to you Simran when you read it? Would it matter if I changed it from:

"Is it really Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism vs Hindu, Hinduism and it's beliefs?",

To:

 Is it Hindus, Hinduism & it's beliefs vs Sikh, Sikhi & Sikhism?"

Or:

"Bad experience at Gurdwara".

Would you then draw different conclusions? Or most importantly would you still draw conclusions from a title after reading the content? 

I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt?

I stand to gain a lot Simran if you come and participate in this forum.

Thanks

Siddharth

You are implying a level of impractical ideas that no true Sikh would willingly accept. When the Hindus are making jokes of Sikhs Shaheeds and calling our Mahapurukhs as extremists, then there is clearly a disconnect from our people.

Now at first I was a completely dumbfounded, by the idea that you may have some general concerns about what's going on, maybe even feeling stupidly sympathetic towards you; however, once you've revealed who you truly are as a troll spitting on some innocent Singhs and Kaurs, I acknowledge I became a buffon.

A Gurdwara is not some business, in the same way a Mandir is not a business or a church, Gurdwara politics is an issue Sikhs should solve on themselves, same with any other faith. If a Hindu preacher said stuff like this: 

10 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

"that we have to be proud of our religion and be staunch. Hindus have been turning the other cheek for so long, anyone can make fun of our Gods.make movies and mere mortals/actors can potray our God, insult us by saying Hindus drink cow urine and worship cats, dogs, monkeys etc. Hindus are peace loving and have never first raised our hand. Its always the foreigners invading and killing Hindus. He then taps into his limited knowledge/awareness and goes on to mention about hindu genocide in the decade following 1984 riots, Sikh eating beef etc."

I wouldn't really like that, but again, I wouldn't go to the Mandir, but the preacher should be allowed to stand-up for his people being degraded. They have a right to preach freely, why don't we?

11 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

So now at your hindu friends place there are his/her other hindu friends, family & relatives. What would you do? Would you get up and leave? Would you wait for ceremony to end, then express your displeasure to your friend then & there or at a later stage? Would you wait for ceremony to finish then approach the hindu priest? Would you stand up midst of priest's discourse and confront?...so many options.

If I ever went to a church for example sake, I know there are some things I will never be allowed to do as a Non-Christian; one is take communion, and I assume they'd be respectful enough to tell me to leave, but when it comes to our faith we are constantly pressured to be accommodating. I as a Non-Brahmin, Non-Hindu can't go to Jaganath Puri, but still their rules are respected, only when it comes to us preaching, we get disrespect, is there any logical reason why?

11 hours ago, Siddhartha said:

I am here not to seek apology for someone you don't know who did something you don't have evidence for. I'm here to guage whether the feeling I had reasons/ground to it. Whether there is increasing discord due to misguided preachings? Whether we together can do something to mollify the anger/hurt?

I know that this was directed to Simran, but if I had previously known you were trolling, I wouldn't have tried explaining why these conflicts happen.

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If I ever went to a church for example sake, I know there are some things I will never be allowed to do as a Non-Christian; one is take communion, and I assume they'd be respectful enough to tell me to leave, but when it comes to our faith we are constantly pressured to be accommodating. I as a Non-Brahmin, Non-Hindu can't go to Jaganath Puri, but still their rules are respected, only when it comes to us preaching, we get disrespect, is there any logical reason why?

 

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Where did you get the idea that you, as a Sikh cannot go to that Jagannath Puri temple. Sikhs can go there without being stopped, the only people that I thought were stopped were non ethnic Indians or those who are of abrahamic faiths..! I have never heard of any mandirs say that Sikhs cant come. bhull chuk maaf kijye vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

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Guest Jacfsing2
14 minutes ago, Preeet said:

vaheguru ji ka khalsa
vaheguru ji ki fateh, ji

Where did you get the idea that you, as a Sikh cannot go to that Jagannath Puri temple. Sikhs can go there without being stopped, the only people that I thought were stopped were non ethnic Indians or those who are of abrahamic faiths..! I have never heard of any mandirs say that Sikhs cant come. bhull chuk maaf kijye vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/nonhindus-can-enter-jagannath-temples-except-shrine-at-puri/article2764219.ece

In the same way a Non-Muslim can enter mosques other than Mecca and Medina, same with Jaganath Puri, they also refuse non-Subcontinental Hindu converts from entering. Even the Hindu tyrants like Indra Gandhi and Jagdidh Tytler, (who is a devout Christian, who killed innocent Sikhs.)

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