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Is Dehdari allow as satguru according to Satguru Granth Sahib ji ?

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We all don’t believe in living guru (dehdari guru’s). We believe in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI but as all sikh guru’s was (dehdari) in human being from now while debating we have to tell the other’s that dehdari or  human can not be a guru after 10 guru’s. so i want to know from all of over sikh brother that where it is written by which guru ji that can not be a dehdari guru it is written in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI or any bani or any where please tell me so i can feel strong there.  

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Guest Jacfsing2
1 hour ago, Master said:

We all don’t believe in living guru (dehdari guru’s). We believe in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI but as all sikh guru’s was (dehdari) in human being from now while debating we have to tell the other’s that dehdari or  human can not be a guru after 10 guru’s. so i want to know from all of over sikh brother that were it is written by which guru ji that can not be a dehdari guru it is written in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI or any bani or any were please tell me so i can feel strong there.  

(Out of recommendation, if anyone has to ask questions about Gurbani, try posting it on the Gupt section.) The Guru has never been human, he merely had a human body to explain to common people how to meet Vaheguru. The difference between these Dehdhari Gurus, and Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, is that one was "Guru" only after being born and ended after they died, regardless of succession, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has existed has Nirankar, (without form), since the beginning, and has always been Vaheguru, and his successors were not chosen based on what they did in their lives, but rather because they, (bodies) were destined to sit on the throne to become Vaheguru's visible form on Earth. 

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ  
बाणी गुरू गुरू है बाणी विचि बाणी अम्रितु सारे ॥ 
Baṇī gurū gurū hai baṇī vicẖ baṇī amriṯ sāre. 
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. 

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 982

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4 hours ago, Master said:

We all don’t believe in living guru (dehdari guru’s). We believe in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI but as all sikh guru’s was (dehdari) in human being from now while debating we have to tell the other’s that dehdari or  human can not be a guru after 10 guru’s. so i want to know from all of over sikh brother that were it is written by which guru ji that can not be a dehdari guru it is written in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI or any bani or any were please tell me so i can feel strong there.  

 

Why do you think Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the gaddhi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and not passed to a human, and established Khalsa ?

Read up what happened in 1708. 

Edited by simran345
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Guest Jacfsing2

Something I want to add to my previous point, the sources that many Dehdhari Gurus claim supports human Gurus, also says that only Sodhis should be allowed to be Guru. (A source 22 Sodhis used during the finding of 9th Guru, to help their claims). As we know, most of these Pakhandi aren't Sodhis, so odds are they don't really believe in what they are saying.

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On 9/5/2017 at 5:09 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

(Out of recommendation, if anyone has to ask questions about Gurbani, try posting it on the Gupt section.) The Guru has never been human, he merely had a human body to explain to common people how to meet Vaheguru. The difference between these Dehdhari Gurus, and Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, is that one was "Guru" only after being born and ended after they died, regardless of succession, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has existed has Nirankar, (without form), since the beginning, and has always been Vaheguru, and his successors were not chosen based on what they did in their lives, but rather because they, (bodies) were destined to sit on the throne to become Vaheguru's visible form on Earth. 

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ  
बाणी गुरू गुरू है बाणी विचि बाणी अम्रितु सारे ॥ 
Baṇī gurū gurū hai baṇī vicẖ baṇī amriṯ sāre. 
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. 

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 982

Thanks Dear sir next time ill post any question regarding gurbani to GUPT Section, Now I know these Gurbani tuks ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ  I always put this to my all brothers who believes  in dehdari, after that they replied me with this complete TUK given below. 

Quote

ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||

and ask where it is written  in gurbani that human can not be a guru ?

 

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On 9/5/2017 at 8:06 PM, simran345 said:
Quote

 

Why do you think Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the gaddhi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and not passed to a human, and established Khalsa ?

Read up what happened in 1708. 

 

 

Quote

Dear sir while debating i have already put this question.

Quote

Why do you think Guru Gobind Singh ji gave the gaddhi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and not passed to a human, and established Khalsa ?

But they asked me always why guru ji did not mentioned anywhere in between 1430 ANG that human can not be a guru? 
my Question is is there any reference that human can not perform as guru or be a guru ?

 

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1 hour ago, Master said:

But they asked me always why guru ji did not mentioned anywhere in between 1430 ANG that human can not be a guru? 

Who are they?

 

Watch the videos:

 

 

 

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On 9/5/2017 at 5:09 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

(Out of recommendation, if anyone has to ask questions about Gurbani, try posting it on the Gupt section.)

Why, bro? A question on Gurbani meanings is not some embarrassing personal problem where you have to keep your identity secret.

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1 hour ago, Master said:

Thanks Dear sir next time ill post any question regarding gurbani to GUPT Section,

I don't think you have to do that. I think he meant if someone doesn't have an account, he can post in the Gupt section. In any case, if you post in the Gupt section, you're likely to get lower-quality responses, because people post as Guest accounts, and are neither responsible for what they write, nor can they  receive notifications which allow for a better conversation flow. So I would say, just post in the normal sections.

1 hour ago, Master said:

Now I know these Gurbani tuks ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ  I always put this to my all brothers who believes  in dehdari, after that they replied me with this complete TUK given below. 

Quote

ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5||

 

and ask where it is written  in gurbani that human can not be a guru ?

Well, on the ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ  tuk, is the English translation what your dehdhari-following friends tell you or your own translation? Also, are your dehdhari friends Punjabi-speaking? If so, they should know that  ਪਰਤਖਿ does NOT mean "in person". "In person" in Punjabi would be something like ਸ਼ਾਖਸਾਤ. ਪਰਤਖਿ   , on the other hand, means "clearly", "not hidden". 

The literal meaning, according to Mahan Kosh, is "before your eyes":

ਸੰ. ਪ੍ਰਤ੍ਯਕ੍ਸ਼੍‍. ਪ੍ਰਤਿ- ਅਕ੍ਸ਼੍‍ ਵਿ- ਅੱਖ ਦੇ ਸਾਮ੍ਹਣੇ. ਜਾਹਿਰ. "ਪਰਤਖਿ ਦੇਹ ਪਾਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੁਆਮੀ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੪. ਕੇ) "ਪਰਤਛਿ ਰਿਦੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜਨ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੫. ਕੇ) "ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜਨ ਪਰਤਖ੍ਯ ਹਰਿ." (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੫. ਕੇ)

 

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For Sikhs, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji are the Living Guru. 

There are pangtis that tell us why a human is not Guru for us:

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ  
बाणी गुरू गुरू है बाणी विचि बाणी अम्रितु सारे ॥ 
Baṇī gurū gurū hai baṇī vicẖ baṇī amriṯ sāre. 
Gurbani is the embodiment of the Guru and the Guru is the embodiment of Gurbani. In the whole of Gurbani is contained the Nectar. 
 

ਗੁਰੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਕਹੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਜਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੫॥ 
गुरु बाणी कहै सेवकु जनु मानै परतखि गुरू निसतारे ॥५॥ 
Gur baṇī kahai sevak jan mānai parṯakẖ gurū nisṯāre. ||5|| 
If the attendant acts up to what Gurbani enjoys, the Guru in person(verily) saves him. 

SGGS ji Ang 982

🙏🏻 Dhan Guru Ram Das ji

Firstly one needs to define what partakh guru nistare means. It does not mean in human form as me and you humans. It has a deeper meaning. Look at the word in brackets next to it. 

 

In Chaupai Sahib ji, we are told:

ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਏਕੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥

Aadi Aanti Eekai Avataaraa ॥

आदि अंति एकै अवतारा ॥

He is the only one form the beginning to the end

ਸੋਈ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮਝਿਯਹੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥੩੮੫॥

Soeee Guroo Samajhiyahu Hamaaraa ॥385॥

सोई गुरू समझियहु हमारा ॥३८५॥

I consider Him only my Guru.385.

ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਹਮਾਰੀ ॥

Namasakaara Tisa Hee Ko Hamaaree ॥

नमशकार तिस ही को हमारी ॥

I salute Him, non else, but Him

 

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ਕਵਣ ਮੂਲੁ ਕਵਣ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਲਾ  
कवण मूलु कवण मति वेला ॥ 
Kavaṇ mūl kavaṇ maṯ velā. 
(Ask the Yogis) Q. 45: What is the origin of life? 
 
ਤੇਰਾ ਕਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਤੂ ਚੇਲਾ  
तेरा कवणु गुरू जिस का तू चेला ॥ 
Ŧerā kavaṇ gurū jis kā ṯū cẖelā. 
Q. 46: Which faith has sway at the present time? 
 
ਕਵਣ ਕਥਾ ਲੇ ਰਹਹੁ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ  
कवण कथा ले रहहु निराले ॥ 
Kavaṇ kathā le rahhu nirāle. 
Q. 47: Who is thy Guru, of whom thou art the disciple? 
 
ਬੋਲੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਬਾਲੇ  
बोलै नानकु सुणहु तुम बाले ॥ 
Bolai Nānak suṇhu ṯum bāle. 
Q. 48: What is the discourse, uttering which thou remains detached? 
 
ਏਸੁ ਕਥਾ ਕਾ ਦੇਇ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ  
एसु कथा का देइ बीचारु ॥ 
Ės kathā kā ḏe▫e bīcẖār. 
Hearken thou to what we say, O boy Nanak. 
 

ਭਵਜਲੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਲੰਘਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੪੩॥ 
भवजलु सबदि लंघावणहारु ॥४३॥ 
Bẖavjal sabaḏ langẖāvaṇhār. ||43|| 
Q. 49: Give thou the exposition of this discourse; How does the Lord ferry the man across the terrible ocean? 

ਪਵਨ ਅਰੰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਲਾ  
पवन अर्मभु सतिगुर मति वेला ॥ 
Pavan arambẖ saṯgur maṯ velā. 
(Answers the Guru) A. 45: The breath is the origin of life. A. 46: It is the time of the sway of the faith of the True Guru. 
 
ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ  
सबदु गुरू सुरति धुनि चेला ॥ 
Sabaḏ gurū suraṯ ḏẖun cẖelā. 
A. 47: The Lord is my Guru, whose meditation, I, His disciple, greatly love. 
 
ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਲੇ ਰਹਉ ਨਿਰਾਲਾ  
अकथ कथा ले रहउ निराला ॥ 
Akath kathā le raha▫o nirālā. 
A. 48: Uttering the discourse of the Ineffable Lord I remain detached. 
 
ਨਾਨਕ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ  
नानक जुगि जुगि गुर गोपाला ॥ 
Nānak jug jug gur gopālā. 
Nanak, all the ages through, God, the cherisher of the world, is my Guru. 
 
ਏਕੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਥਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ  
एकु सबदु जितु कथा वीचारी ॥ 
Ėk sabaḏ jiṯ kathā vīcẖārī. 
A. 49: Such is the unique Lord, by meditating on whose Divine discourse, the man crosses the terrible ocean. 
 
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਅਗਨਿ ਨਿਵਾਰੀ ॥੪੪॥ 
गुरमुखि हउमै अगनि निवारी ॥४४॥ 
Gurmukẖ ha▫umai agan nivārī. ||44|| 
Thus does the Guru-ward quench his fire of self-conceit. 

SGGS ji Angs 942 - 943

🙏🏻 Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji

 

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3 hours ago, Master said:

and ask where it is written  in gurbani that human can not be a guru ?

This is the same as saying "ask where it is written in gurbani that human can be a guru"

The dehdari people are not Sikhs, but following a cult and probably some man that they call their guru. 

As Sikhs we do not bow down to any other, than Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. 

There are people that will try to twist and misinterpret Gurbani for their own agenda. Don't fall for it, and don't just take anybody's words for what they say. Read Gurbani yourself, ask questions, listen to katha on Gurbani. Make yourself equipped with knowledge for yourself. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, until you understand the meanings yourself. 

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Different faiths/religions have different definitions of the word Guru. But as a Sikh, you only need to be concerned with what it means to Sikhs. 

I find it very irritating, when people who are not Sikhs, think they have the right to ask what's written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji about what something means to prove their definition right. If they are not following Sikhi, then they don't have a right to question Guruji either and should carry on with their own stuff of whatever they are doing. But trying to justify themselves by comparing to Guruji's words is an unwise path to tread along. How can somebody who follows something else relate the two together? They can't, when they don't have follow or practice the same things, can they. It doesn't make sense, but it shows they only want to belittle Sikhi and do their own thing. 

When you start getting questions like this, it's a sign that they are being taught what to say. It's called brainwashing and misleading people to follow them. 

Edited by simran345
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On 9/7/2017 at 4:53 PM, simran345 said:

This is the same as saying "ask where it is written in gurbani that human can be a guru"

The dehdari people are not Sikhs, but following a cult and probably some man that they call their guru. 

As Sikhs we do not bow down to any other, than Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. 

There are people that will try to twist and misinterpret Gurbani for their own agenda. Don't fall for it, and don't just take anybody's words for what they say. Read Gurbani yourself, ask questions, listen to katha on Gurbani. Make yourself equipped with knowledge for yourself. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, until you understand the meanings yourself. 

who are the sikhs? where is written that dehdari are not sikhs then our 10 guru were also in deh in body what will you say about them ? our gurus write that

ਸਿਖੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

Sikhee Sikhiaa Gur Veechaar ||

Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these teachings;

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On 9/7/2017 at 4:53 PM, simran345 said:
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This is the same as saying "ask where it is written in gurbani that human can be a guru"

Firstly you tell about our 10 dehdari guru they were also come with human body

 

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      it is not a theory to simply be
      discussed and forgotten....   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------          
    • I agree that Punjabi has its roots in Sanskrit and in fact holds more importance over Farsi, but that doesn't mean Farsi should be cast aside. If we cannot agree on the degree of connection between Punjabi and Farsi then a consideration should be made as to where the bar is set for Sikhs in pursuit of it specifically, if not for the writings of Bhai Nand Lal Ji, then at least for Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Zafarnama. On the topic of academic pursuits, an effort should be made without question to acquire good hand knowledge of Sanskrit. It's worth mentioning that Vedic Sanskrit and Old Persian actually share some similarities.   Punjabi, aside from having loanwords, also shares the same word order as Farsi - Subject, Object, Verb. Although this could well be a coincidence, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. What has given you the impression that anyone in this thread has an inferiority complex? For the majority of us, Punjabi is our maa boli and takes precedence over any other language. The fact that some have a piqued interest in a secondary language which unquestionably has had a significant influence on our mother tongue, whether through conquest or not, does not all of sudden warrant the accusation that one has an inferiority complex. Punjabi has many dialects, some which are more Persianized and some which are more Sanskritized, and even that doesn't determine how Punjabi is spoken - a lot of it is down to personal preference and exposure. I have yet to find someone who speaks Pre-Persian Punjabi or has completely removed any Persian influence. Punjabi during the emergence of Sikhi most likely already had quite a degree of Persian influence, possibly not as much as today, but it still had it nonetheless. It has evolved like most languages and we are talking about the form relative to Punjabis and Sikhs throughout early modern history and current day. My DNA test didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, and had it come back with higher percentage of Indigenous Indian, the topic of Punjabis/Sikhs learning Farsi would still be under discussion and actually already has been. Likewise, the fact that many Punjabis are more ethnically Persian doesn't mean we are denying our actual heritage - Bharati. While I despise the politics of modern day India, the fact remains that Punjab culturally, geographically, linguistically, socially, and religiously was, is, and will always be a part of Bharat despite any land borders past, present, or future, and any political designations. A fact that many Sikhs find bitter, and a fact which if in agreement with, will also surely cause the term 'inferiority complex' to be bandied about. Anyway, it's not as if I've been suggesting we all apply for Iranian Citizenship at the earliest possible chance and start stuffing our faces with kabobs now is it. These days in order to qualify as someone who doesn't have an inferiority complex, you must be a Pro-Khalistani Singh Sabhia who follows Reform 'Sikhism', and believe all Sikhs appeared on earth through immaculate conception and came with their own pure culture and divine language which to this day has been entirely uninfluenced by outside factors.  ! پیروزی به هندوستان
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