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Did Winston Churchill & British Establishment deliberately want partition and deadly violence in punjab

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chatanga    1,068
15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

As does every Pakistani because Jammu and Kashmir was 77 % Muslim majority state.

 

Of course it was only natural that the ML wanted Kashmir to be part of Pakistan because of its demographics. The difference was that the popluation counted for nothing. It was a princely state which that only the King had the right to make the decision. Plus the "K" of Kashmir was to be in the name of Pakistan. No K, would jhave meant the country could have ended up being called Paistan.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

As does every Pakistani

If only Kashmiris felt same as well.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Nehru already had plans for Kashmir
 

If you have read extensivley on this you will have seen that Nehru has resigned himslef to losing Kashmir to Pakistan. The activiites of the Pak govt proivided him with a lifeline to take Kashmir.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Nehru already had plans for Kashmir that is why he used his influence on Mountbatten to get Gurdaspur which was a Muslim majority district and India's only link with Kashmir.Even in notional division which was created to decide the future of Punjab,Gurdaspur was placed in Western block.
 

 

Gurdaspur had a muslim majority of 0.1%. The majority of the Muslims of Gurdaspur lived in the one of the tehsils that was awarded to Pakistan. Their numbers in Zaffarwal tehsil was a lot and the population in this tehsil was much greater than the others. That is why Gurdaspur had an extremely slight numerical advantage but when the situation was moved from a district level to e Tehsil, this decision was right.

 

Muslims in Panjab were 55% of the population yet were rewarded 61 of the land mass. That in itself was extremely unfair.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:


And according to Christopher Snedden an Australian author of book "Kashmir-Untold Story" invasion of tribal people happened only due to reports of muslim massacre in Jammu.In Jammu, Muslim villages were burnt and thousands of Muslims have taken refuge near Sialkot. Mirpur Muslims have already rebelled against Maharaja.Christopher Snedden also wrote that it makes sense for India to blame everything on tribal afghans but pakistan has also acquiesced to this Indian narrative which states that trouble started with pathan invasion which is not true. Long before any pathan invasion,Muslims have rebelled against Hindu rule.It was an indigenous movement.
 

 

I have many books on Pakistan, and Kashmir, (many unread yet as I have that many), but if you think the tribaks invaded because they wanted to avenge muslim deaths in Jammu, you have been mislead. The initial rebellion in Poonch was against the King of Kashmir, because he was afraid of the Poonch regiments wanting to join Pakistan so he tried to have them disarmed. They rebelled and were holding their ground extremely well against the Kings other troops. It was decided to send in tribals to help them after the Dogra troops starting tgetting the upper hand.

These tribals  caused havoc wherever they went and after the hindu and sikhs were gone, they turned on the native population that was left. India had the chance to destory these tribals but were scared off of going to  close to Pakistans border as they didnt want to be seen as threatening Pakistan in the world arena.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

 Long before any pathan invasion,Muslims have rebelled against Hindu rule.

 

 

It was not a hindu vs muslims thing. The King himself was leaning towards Pakistan until the invasion happened. The King wanted Kahsmir  to remain independent but would have chosen Pakistan over India as the vast majority of Kashmirs trade was through Panjab (Sialkot/Gujrat) and it made economical sense to be in Pakistan than india.

 

And thats really quite ironic isnt it? The ML starting fighting for something that would have come to them any way, and the Kashmiris wanting an independent state today have their state ruled by two other states.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:


And the 95 thousand sq km territory of Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir which we control today was not liberated by Pathans or Pakistan army.These ares were liberated by local people themselves.Pak army was involved at a later stage when Indian army started crushing mutiny in Kashmir.

 

Kashmir, was not liberated by locals. they didnt have a pot to piss in. It was Pak army hardware, partialy financed by Hyderabad (indian) state, that gave weapons, food and soldiers to lead the tribals.

I dontknow about Baltistan.

 

Gilgit on the other hand was secured by a british army officer with Pakistan troops.

 

I dont know why you want to peddle Pakistani state narratives here.

 

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chatanga    1,068
15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

well i can only speaks for west Punjab.Recently i have come across some pages on Facebook run  by Urdu speakers of Karachi.They have started a campaign on social media against the usage of Punjabi in tv talk shows.Even though these tv shows are are private channels and theses shows are produced in Punjab.They are so insecure that they can't tolerate a few Punjabi words in tv talk shows or funny programs even though now Punjabis are more than 110 millions (according to 2017 census) in Pakistan which is more than half population of punjab.I was to see the reponse of some punabis against this propganda by Urdu speakers.And this is a good start but i think it will be miracle when Punjabis in pak will take pride in speaking Punjabi without feeling embarrassed.

 

You need to take lessons from the Bengalis. They refused to give up their mother tongue for some hybrid manufactured language. they have my respect for that more than the Muslims who live in Panjab.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Good to know.I hope they are successful in their mission.I'm waiting for the day when Punjabi will be revived in punjab and our CM will address the punjab assembly in Punjabi. But I don't know if i would be alive to see that day lol

 

I don't know about the CM of Panjab. I remember during a Kabaddi match in indian Panjab, the CM Shahbaz Sharif was invited to say a few words. He couldnt even put 2 Panjabi words together before he started talking in Urdu. Its a shame no-one turned the mic off so we had to listen to that.

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YOYO29    53
10 hours ago, chatanga said:

I dont know why you want to peddle Pakistani state narratives here.

Not Pakistani narrative as Pakistani narrative gives no credit to locals.All credit is given to pak army and tribal pathans.Whatever i wrote i took it from two sources Christopher Snedden's books on kashmir and  Alex von Tunzelmann's book Indian summer.Here is page from Indian summer.

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Edited by YOYO29

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YOYO29    53

It was Mirpur or Poonch where there ware great many retired military soldiers.Majority of them were Muslims and now when the ww2 was over they had no jobs.And they were also fed up of mahraja and and heavy taxes so they decided to fight and liberate their lands.About Gilgit,over there muslim scouts led by british army officer played huge role in liberating it.This area was given to british by maharaja on lease for 90 years (if i member correctly) and just a couple of days back it has been officially returned to Mahraja by British govt and maharaj's representative was sent there to secure possession of gilgit but later on he had to flee to save his life.

Edited by YOYO29

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YOYO29    53
10 hours ago, chatanga said:

I don't know about the CM of Panjab. I remember during a Kabaddi match in indian Panjab, the CM Shahbaz Sharif was invited to say a few words.

i watched that video on utube.I read somewher ,when a delegation of punjabi language activist wen to visit Nawaz Sharif when he was CM of Punjab and asked him to promote punjabi in punjab and also in punjab assebmly as punjabi is our mother tongue.But that dude said that "I'm Kashmiri not Punjabi" even though his family has been living in punjab since the last 3 generations.

Situation of bengalis is different from punjabis. Bengalis have one common script which both hindu and bengali muslims use.Wheras we Punjabis don't have one.There used to be a script called landa which was neutral script but that is not used anywhere now.You have gurmukhi,we have persian script and hindus have Devanagari.Had there been a common script to which all punjabi ascribed regardless of religious difference situation might have been different. It's pity that punjabi is orphan language in a country where Punjabis are in majority wheras it is flourshing in countries where there are less than 2 percent punjabis live.

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YOYO29    53

From historical perspective ; Punjabi had never been a state language.Even during Ranjit Singh era persian was the language of state.It is only in recent times that Punjabi got official status.

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YOYO29    53
On 9/12/2017 at 2:36 AM, chatanga said:

Gurdaspur had a muslim majority of 0.1%. The majority of the Muslims of Gurdaspur lived in the one of the tehsils that was awarded to Pakistan. Their numbers in Zaffarwal tehsil was a lot and the population in this tehsil was much greater than the others. That is why Gurdaspur had an extremely slight numerical advantage but when the situation was moved from a district level to e Tehsil, this decision was right.

Partition was done on the basis of districts.If it had been done on tehsil basis then we had a very good claim on two muslim majority tehsil in firozpur ,Zira 65 % ,Ferozpur 55 %tehsils were majority muslims.Ajnala tehsil in Amritsar was also Muslim majority.And about Gurdas pur, most muslims in gurdaspur district lived in Batala where they were 55 percent of tehsil population.There were four tehsils of Gurdaspur out of which only Pathankot was Hindu majority rest were muslim majority.

On 9/12/2017 at 2:36 AM, chatanga said:

Muslims in Panjab were 55% of the population yet were rewarded 61 of the land mass. That in itself was extremely unfair.

Are you talking about just british punjab or whole punjab including princely states ?

Edited by YOYO29

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Premi5    53
20 hours ago, chatanga said:

 

 

I have many books on Pakistan, and Kashmir, (many unread yet as I have that many), but if you think the tribaks invaded because they wanted to avenge muslim deaths in Jammu, you have been mislead. 

 

Can you tell us some titles, as I would like to get from local library or online please

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akaltaksal    53
On 9/9/2017 at 0:12 AM, YOYO29 said:

But I can easily have a conversation with an Indian Punjabi without any difficulty and also I can completely understand any Indian Punjabi movies.So I would say language has not changed so much.

I didn't say it changed to a point of losing intelligibility. It changed enough to be noticable.

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YOYO29    53
9 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

Why is he/she even here? 

I thought this was an open forum. Aren't non sikhs welcome here ?

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Ranjeet01    1,113

It cannot be said to be Indian Punjabi or Pakistani Punjab but obviously there are going to be differences in accents and dialects. 

Also, it's been over 70 years. Accents/Dialects and languages do change over time.

If you watch an old black and white film and compare the English with what's spoken today, it will be intelligible but it is not how it is spoken today.

Can we expect any different with Punjabi?

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S1ngh    1,352
36 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:

I thought this was an open forum. Aren't non sikhs welcome here ?

It is open forum but a platform for everyone to promote only Sikh culture, history and religion. While we do tolerate some trolls trying to push non-Sikh agenda but we believe in respecting freedom of speech but there are always limit. ✌️

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YOYO29    53
39 minutes ago, S1ngh said:

It is open forum but a platform for everyone to promote only Sikh culture, history and religion. While we do tolerate some trolls trying to push non-Sikh agenda but we believe in respecting freedom of speech but ther

can you show me where did i try to promote anti sikh propaganda ?

 

15 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I for one welcome your insight. You aren't here spouting off biased p.o.v's. 

Thanks man

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