Jump to content
superkaur

Did Winston Churchill & British Establishment deliberately want partition and deadly violence in punjab

Recommended Posts

akaltaksal    53
11 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

agreed the himichal folks speak Potohari and can hold perfect Punjabi conversation easily - own experience in 2015.

haranvi - is just a made up language to drive home the hindi suba argument , most understand and speak punjabi. it's all spineless behaviour from Hindu panjabis who have no love for their mother land or tongue

you just need to read to understand just how widely spoken Punjabi is , it is now Canada's most spoken immigrant language , I think true in UK too.

I think it's just some kind of Pahari dialect. I hear what they call 'Potwari' or 'Bhappaya di Upboli' in Delhi, Khanna, Gurgaon, and parts of UP. 

 

In the case of Haryanvi, most northern and central Haryanvi speakers are arguably those who reverted to speaking Hindi from their previous Panjabi dialects,  they still have certain inflections, style, speech rhythms and accents that are very similar to Panjabi. There are  pure breed Panjabi Hindus in the middle of Jalandhar who can't/won't speak Panjabi despite living there all their lives.

Edited by akaltaksal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
akaltaksal    53

The Panjabi language is very diverse in terms of it's dialects. 

I know of a few pinds were the locals say 'Mai Aanda' instead of 'Mai Kehna'. 

Places like Sangrur strip their words of all Bindis. 

Despite all the pressure to kill Panjabi, the Panjabi music and movie industry is probably what's keeping it alive and popular (kuch ta changa kita). 

A severely threatened dialect as of now is Khalsai Boli or Garr Gaj Bola which is losing speakers rapidly. 

Edited by akaltaksal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jkvlondon    3,419
2 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

The Panjabi language is very diverse in terms of it's dialects. 

I know of a few pinds were the locals say 'Aanda' instead of 'Mai Kehna'. 

Places like Sangrur strip their words of all Bindis lol. 

Despite all the pressure to kill Panjabi, the Panjabi music and movie industry is probably what's keeping it alive and popular (kuch ta changa kita). 

A severely threatened dialect as of now is Khalsai Boli or Garr Gaj Bola which is losing speakers rapidly. 

need to collect this in vocabulary/dictionary form , along with detailed shastar knowledge like form , making , care and training.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
21 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

Your Panjab is not the same as our Panjab. There's a significant difference. 

Seriously ? How much language has been changed in mere 70 years ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dsinghdp    43
On 07/09/2017 at 5:55 PM, YOYO29 said:

In our side punjabi language's fate is sealed.People are ashamed to speak Punjabi due to fear of being judged as pendu.Sadly there is no future for punjabi in pakistan. I don't remember when was the last time a book in punjabi was published in Punjab.

Pakistanis speak excellent Punjabi. Our Punjabi is shifting towards Hindi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
akaltaksal    53
6 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Seriously ? How much language has been changed in mere 70 years ?

I'm not speaking solely in regards to language, though that would be one notable point. But also of the culture, demographics, and social climate which are influenced by a wide array of factors which then in turn influence language. 

language can change fairly enough in 70 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
akaltaksal    53
6 hours ago, Dsinghdp said:

Pakistanis speak excellent Punjabi. Our Punjabi is shifting towards Hindi.

Their Panjabi itself has shifted towards Urdu. It's happening on both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
6 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

language can change fairly enough in 70 years.

But I can easily have a conversation with an Indian Punjabi without any difficulty and also I can completely understand any Indian Punjabi movies.So I would say language has not changed so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
On 9/8/2017 at 10:44 PM, Dsinghdp said:

Pakistanis speak excellent Punjabi.

Yes in rural areas,Urban areas have already adopted Urdu.Now even in rural areas people are adopting Urdu.Punjabi is considered a language of Pendus. If you visit any school,college or university you will hardly find any one speaking Punjabi.It does not mean that students or teachers do not know Punjabi. They are afraid that if they spoke punjabi, they would have bad impression.

Edited by YOYO29
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/09/2017 at 0:17 AM, YOYO29 said:

Yes in rural areas,Urban areas has already adopted Urdu.Now even in rural areas people area adopting Urdu.Punjabi is considered a language of Pendus. If you visit any school,college or university you will hardly find any one speaking Punjabi.It does not mean that students or teachers do not know Punjabi. They are afraid that if they spoke punjabi, they would have bad impression.

I think that is a phenomena based in Punjab only. I've met a few diaspora Pakistani Punjabis who are trying to organize forums etc to preserve Punjabi and their respective dialects. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chatanga    1,068
On 03/09/2017 at 6:34 PM, superkaur said:

Good point about letting native states becoming independent, however that was what happened a few of the states did not want to join india or pakistan. The most contentious of them being kashmir,  hyrderbad and sikkim where the Indian army was used to invade, dethrown the native leaders/maharajahs and force the states to join the Indian Union.

So the game plan of the British was to have a finger in many pies. Pakistan would become their main base and hub to conduct operations in south asia. India was going to be treated as a neutral or enemy state especially when the USSR soviet union had started to help Indian congress party govt in energy infrastructure and other development projects. And the native states that were outside the control of new delhi were going to be used as another convenient trading posts for British goods and commerce.

 

The Kashmiri King wished to remain independent but Jinah wanted it to be part of Pakistan. The newly formed pak govt sponsored tribal afghans to invade and secure Kahsmir for Pakistan. This invasion made the King, hari Singh sign Kashmir over to india in order to get security from pakistan.

 

If the tribals hadnt invaded Kashmir would have remained independent and a muslim majority country. In hindsight the pakistan move was one of grave folly. But unfortunately they haven't learnt the lesson.

 

On 03/09/2017 at 6:40 PM, superkaur said:

Its important to conclude and remember so that all those Sikhs who suck up to the racist british establishment and thinking they would have granted a separate Sikh nation had it not been for the foolishness of master tara singh (who was a fool) and the leadership do not realise what the British game plan was.

 

So many people blame Master Tara Singh whereas it was baldev Singh who sealed the fate of the Sikhs. The reality of the time was that Master Tara Singhs hand were tied. The Sikh community was at a disadvantage in more or less every sphere. There were no friends, only enemies, and most the energies of the Sikhs were spent fighting the creation of Pakistan. There was no plan B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
S1ngh    1,352

It's important to note that both sides- east and west Punjab are fighting rigorous battle against the system that is pushing Urdu and Hindi on Punjabi speaking culture.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
12 hours ago, chatanga said:

The Kashmiri King wished to remain independent but Jinah wanted it to be part of Pakistan.

As does every Pakistani because Jammu and Kashmir was 77 % Muslim majority state.

 

12 hours ago, chatanga said:

The newly formed pak govt sponsored tribal afghans to invade and secure Kahsmir for Pakistan. This invasion made the King, hari Singh sign Kashmir over to india in order to get security from pakistan.

Nehru already had plans for Kashmir that is why he used his influence on Mountbatten to get Gurdaspur which was a Muslim majority district and India's only link with Kashmir.Even in notional division which was created to decide the future of Punjab,Gurdaspur was placed in Western block.
And according to Christopher Snedden an Australian author of book "Kashmir-Untold Story" invasion of tribal people happened only due to reports of muslim massacre in Jammu.In Jammu, Muslim villages were burnt and thousands of Muslims have taken refuge near Sialkot. Mirpur Muslims have already rebelled against Maharaja.Christopher Snedden also wrote that it makes sense for India to blame everything on tribal afghans but pakistan has also acquiesced to this Indian narrative which states that trouble started with pathan invasion which is not true. Long before any pathan invasion,Muslims have rebelled against Hindu rule.It was an indigenous movement.

And the 95 thousand sq km territory of Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir which we control today was not liberated by Pathans or Pakistan army.These ares were liberated by local people themselves.Pak army was involved at a later stage when Indian army started crushing mutiny in Kashmir.

Edited by YOYO29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
11 hours ago, S1ngh said:

It's important to note that both sides- east and west Punjab are fighting rigorous battle against the system that is pushing Urdu and Hindi on Punjabi speaking culture.

well i can only speaks for west Punjab.Recently i have come across some pages on Facebook run  by Urdu speakers of Karachi.They have started a campaign on social media against the usage of Punjabi in tv talk shows.Even though these tv shows are are private channels and theses shows are produced in Punjab.They are so insecure that they can't tolerate a few Punjabi words in tv talk shows or funny programs even though now Punjabis are more than 110 millions (according to 2017 census) in Pakistan which is more than half population of punjab.I was to see the reponse of some punabis against this propganda by Urdu speakers.And this is a good start but i think it will be miracle when Punjabis in pak will take pride in speaking Punjabi without feeling embarrassed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YOYO29    53
21 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I think that is a phenomena based in Punjab only. I've met a few diaspora Pakistani Punjabis who are trying to organize forums etc to preserve Punjabi and their respective dialects. 

Good to know.I hope they are successful in their mission.I'm waiting for the day when Punjabi will be revived in punjab and our CM will address the punjab assembly in Punjabi. But I don't know if i would be alive to see that day lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×