Did Winston Churchill & British Establishment deliberately want partition and deadly violence in punjab

[S1ngh]

8 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

can you show me where did i try to promote anti sikh propaganda ?

Reply wasn't pointed at you but generally speaking about this forums aim/mission etc..

[akaltaksal]

12 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

I thought this was an open forum. Aren't non sikhs welcome here ?

Sure, It's an open forum. But not to my liking. 

If they're useful to any topic and discussion, then of course, otherwise it's just a waste of time.

Don't see what you'd get out of here anyways.

[YOYO29]

1 hour ago, akaltaksal said:

Don't see what you'd get out of here anyways.

i'm just curious to learn about other cultures/people.FYI it was a simple google search on Khalistan that brought me here two years ago,back in those days when i used to be quite nationalist lolz and since then i'm here

[chatanga]

On 12/09/2017 at 8:41 AM, YOYO29 said:

Not Pakistani narrative as Pakistani narrative gives no credit to locals.All credit is given to pak army and tribal pathans.Whatever i wrote i took it from two sources Christopher Snedden's books on kashmir and  Alex von Tunzelmann's book Indian summer.Here is page from Indian summer.

 

Bro, that is TOTALLY Pakistani narrative. Pakistan always denies having any influence in Kashmir or Afghanistan, but we all know what the reality is.

 

On 12/09/2017 at 9:00 AM, YOYO29 said:

i watched that video on utube.I read somewher ,when a delegation of punjabi language activist wen to visit Nawaz Sharif when he was CM of Punjab and asked him to promote punjabi in punjab and also in punjab assebmly as punjabi is our mother tongue.But that dude said that "I'm Kashmiri not Punjabi" even though his family has been living in punjab since the last 3 generations.

 

There is a sizeable percentage of Kashmiris in Panjab. Its such a shame that these people had a vote to decide the reality of Panjab we see today. BTW didnt know they were Kashmiri. Had been told they claimed to be Arains.

 

On 12/09/2017 at 9:00 AM, YOYO29 said:

Situation of bengalis is different from punjabis. Bengalis have one common script which both hindu and bengali muslims use.Wheras we Punjabis don't have one.There used to be a script called landa which was neutral script but that is not used anywhere now.You have gurmukhi,we have persian script and hindus have Devanagari.Had there been a common script to which all punjabi ascribed regardless of religious difference situation might have been different. It's pity that punjabi is orphan language in a country where Punjabis are in majority wheras it is flourshing in countries where there are less than 2 percent punjabis live.

 

Yes true that Bengalis only had one script but that is because they were all centred on a very strong Bengali identity. Even during the times of the earlier Moghals Bengal was always acting on semi-independent lines. All 3 religions in Panjab had their own script but even that is not a mountain that couldn't be climbed.

 

 

On 12/09/2017 at 1:49 PM, YOYO29 said:

Partition was done on the basis of districts.If it had been done on tehsil basis then we had a very good claim on two muslim majority tehsil in firozpur ,Zira 65 % ,Ferozpur 55 %tehsils were majority muslims.Ajnala tehsil in Amritsar was also Muslim majority.And about Gurdas pur, most muslims in gurdaspur district lived in Batala where they were 55 percent of tehsil population.There were four tehsils of Gurdaspur out of which only Pathankot was Hindu majority rest were muslim majority.

Are you talking about just british punjab or whole punjab including princely states ?

 

Partition was done on primary basis of Districts and secondary of Tehsils.  Will try and pull up some figures on Gurdaspur.

I'm talking about British Panjab. The muslims were approx 55% (it ranges from 52% to 57% depending on who you ask) but 61% of the land was given to be in Pakistan.

 

You know what really aggrieves me. I mean REALLY aggrieves me to the point where I find it hard to even express my anger, is that there were at least 6 border villages where our religiously historic Gurdwaras are, inc Gurdwara Darbar Sahib. That place is so special to Sikhs, yet these border villages went to Pakistan even though they could have easily been awarded to India, on the basis that 55% of the population could not claim 61 % of the land.

 

And look at those Gurdwaras now. Our precious heritage has turned to dust and rubble in this Pakistan. Only Gurdwara Darbar Sahib is functioning now, and that only after it was rescued otherwise it's domes had also fallen in. The other Gurdwaras have turned to dust and ruin.

 

On 12/09/2017 at 6:43 PM, Premi5 said:

Can you tell us some titles, as I would like to get from local library or online please

 

Wil dig some out.

 

15 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

I thought this was an open forum. Aren't non sikhs welcome here ?

 

Yes they are, and you are as well.

[YOYO29]

11 hours ago, chatanga said:

I'm talking about British Panjab. The muslims were approx 55% (it ranges from 52% to 57% depending on who you ask) but 61% of the land was given to be in Pakistan.

You can check Dr B.R Ambedkar's book "Pakistan or Partition of India".You can find all the statistics about British punjab and princely sates.According to 1941 census as given in this book.Muslim population was 57.1 % in British Punjab and if u also add princely states then overall population of Muslim was at 54.44 %. And frankly you are not the only one who aggrieves 1947 partition .In our side there is no shortage of people who think that we lost Muslim majority areas in Punjab which cost us Kashmir.And More than 8 Muslim majority tehsils were given to India whereas not a single hindu/sikh majority tehsil was awarded to Pakistan.

Moreover there is no precedent to divide a country on the basis of overall majority/minority status.If i'm correct Ireland was also divided on county basis.Catholic majority counties went to Ireland and protestant majority counties remained with UK.

And there is precedent for exchanging villages.In 1960s Indian govt request pak govt to exchange some land on punjab border?It was a place where Shaheed Bhagat Singh was cremated.So Pakistan changed that land with India.

[chatanga]

2 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

In our side there is no shortage of people who think that we lost Muslim majority areas in Punjab which cost us Kashmir.

 

We've been over this. kashmir was never "yours". By law of agreement it still isn't.

 

You are talking about land. I am talking bout a very special piece of land. Our religious places are no ordinary places. They have the same place in our hearts like Mecca for. see how aggrieved the Muslims are about the mosque in Jerusalem? Its exactly the same for Sikhs.

 

2 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

And More than 8 Muslim majority tehsils were given to India whereas not a single hindu/sikh majority tehsil was awarded to Pakistan.

 

Just because you were majority in those areas didnt give you the right to claim it all. Like I said Muslims were about 55%  but yet they were given 61% of the land mass. Why? You talk about 8 tehsils? Thats nothing. By right Sikhs/HIndus are looking at 20 Tehsils that should have come to Indian Panjab.

 

If your country had looked after our religiously historic shrines like they promised to, maybe we wouldnt have that bitterness in our hearts and minds, but the waqf board instead have trried to sell off gurdwara lands and such.

 

 

 

[YOYO29]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:31 PM, chatanga said:

We've been over this. kashmir was never "yours". By law of agreement it still isn't.

 

As per the partition of India it was supposed to go with Pakistan.About law of agreement you're right but nobody gave a damn about it.It was also against the democratic principles. India did not accept Junagarh's accession to Pakistan even though ruler of that state had signed instrument of accession to Pakistan but here India insisted on princple of democratic rights and they maintained that Muslim ruler had no right to accede to Pakistan only people of that state will decide their future.

On 9/15/2017 at 5:31 PM, chatanga said:

By right Sikhs/HIndus are looking at 20 Tehsils that should have come to Indian Panjab.

Which right you're talking about ? You're being emotional. Everyone knew that muslim majority areas would go with Pakistan and non muslim areas would go to India. Any neutral person can look at the demographics and tell India got favorable deal in both Bengal and Punjab.

Here see a blog by Indian
https://southasiablog.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/religious-map-of-punjab-before-partition/
A Pakistani perspective 
http://pakgeotagging.blogspot.com/2014/10/partition-of-punjab-in-1947.html

Partition of Punjab was the best deal you could have got.This can be supported by the fact that NOT A SINGLE hindu/sikh majority tehsil was included in Pakistan.There is no point in arguing about Punjab partition because both the countries have accepted it and Punjab is not a disputed land.

[akaltaksal]

On 9/14/2017 at 1:16 PM, YOYO29 said:

i'm just curious to learn about other cultures/people.FYI it was a simple google search on Khalistan that brought me here two years ago,back in those days when i used to be quite nationalist lolz and since then i'm here

Yeah, but this forum is for Sikhs. You have no contribution or use here. 

[superkaur]

I think the topic has deviated a little from the focus I was trying to get to and where it has landed. Focus should be on racist Winston churchill and the racist british establishment overall how they cleverly played the game of divide and rule.

We have memoirs of winston churchill where he praises the Sikhs where he stood up for Sikhs right to wear kirpan in the UK which is great. However he was a very scheming man and a political opportunist as he refereed to indians, hindus brahmims, Islam and muslims in derogatory racist terms. He clearly wanted Indians to be disunited and wanted to cause them pain for allegedly British rule ending there. So by warming up to jinnah and giving him support of Pakistan he wanted to ensure india remained divided and suffered huge communal violence/genocide.

I wouldn't put it past the calculating churchill and co egging on and funding the cannon fodder martial punjabi sikhs (ie Sikh princely state rulers, sikh army generals, sikh jatha's) to physically fight to curve out a khalistan/sikhistan knowing full well it would cause a bloodbath inflecting pain for the disobedient breakaway indian slaves but also be fruitless goal for the Sikhs for nationhood as it would not be allowed to become a reality because it was decided that pakistan would be officially and legally recognized as its main base of operations there if or when india decides to have nothing to do with UK trade links and started to look at the soviet USSR russian enemy for military support and trade.

[YOYO29]

5 hours ago, akaltaksal said:

Yeah, but this forum is for Sikhs. You have no contribution or use here. 

If you don't like me staying here.Take it up with mods.