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Why Sikhs cant be exonerated for rise of Ram Rahims in and around Punjab

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Kira    1,219
14 minutes ago, silverSingh said:

 

It is best not to say too much when people talk about castes because if you do say anything opposite or show any agitation people automatically assume you belong to low caste. You must both be low caste sikhs to agitate so much. Your posts indicate that you both are not  of jat caste.

You're right I'm not of Jat Caste, I don't have a caste. I'd rather sit around with the so called "Shudra" than anyone else. Seek the company of the lowliest.

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Jacfsing2    1,845
2 hours ago, silverSingh said:

It is best not to say too much when people talk about castes because if you do say anything opposite or show any agitation people automatically assume you belong to low caste. You must both be low caste sikhs to agitate so much. Your posts indicate that you both are not of jat caste.

I never claimed to be Jat whatsoever, or any caste really, (not really important if you ask me, whether I'm a Brahmin or Dalit especially in this day and age). But I'd rather be of the lowest caste and a real Sikh, than being the highest caste and being some heretic.

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JSinghnz    925
5 hours ago, jaspindjy said:

i AM A JATT AND VERY VERY PROUD OF MY CASTE. YOU CAN BURN WITH JEALOUSY AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE .

Gurbani has an answer for non Sikhs like you ( stop pretending to be a Sikh, you are just a casteist mindset ignorant individual who has no understanding  of Sikhi.

 

Those having the false pride of caste are called "fool" and "ignorant" in the Gurbani. To put it otherwise, as the Gurbani indicates, those who practice caste distinction and feel pride of their belief in Jaat-Paat are foolish and spiritually ignorant beings.

  • ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥ ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਘੜੈ ਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਾ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕੋ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥: Jaat kaa garab n kar moorakh gavaaraa. Is garab te chalahi bahut vikaaraa ||1||Rahaaou||...: Do not be proud of your (higher or ਉੱਚੀ) Jaati, you ignorant fool! So much Bikaar comes from this pride. ||1||Rahaaou|| Every one says there are four Varan (four social classes or caste - Brahmin, Khatri, Vaish, Shoodar - but) all emanate from God's Seed (from One Light). ||2|| As the potter shapes all sorts of vessels, similarly, so is this entire universe (shaped from One Clay of God's Light). ||3|| The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body. Who can say which has less (elements), and which has more (elements)? ||4|| (sggs 1127-1128).

 

 

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JSinghnz    925
1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I never claimed to be Jat whatsoever, or any caste really, (not really important if you ask me, whether I'm a Brahmin or Dalit especially in this day and age). But I'd rather be of the lowest caste and a real Sikh, than being the highest caste and being some heretic.

Real Sikhs have no caste.

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simran345    2,425
5 hours ago, silverSingh said:

 

It is best not to say too much when people talk about castes because if you do say anything opposite or show any agitation people automatically assume you belong to low caste. You must both be low caste sikhs to agitate so much. Your posts indicate that you both are not  of jat caste.

It's got nothing to do with what caste one comes from. Those that think there are high and low castes, especially in this day and age really need to do some soul searching. It's not rocket science to understand what's being said about caste in the threads and numerous other past threads. If people want to cling onto their castes and be proud of it, then that's ego. Because there's nothing to be proud of a caste, it's the qualities of a person that one looks at, and not their caste, that's where the pride should be. Not, that they are from flana themkara caste. 

The Gurus never said they were proud of being so and so caste, so why should we? Something to think about  💭.

 

 

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Akalifauj    784
14 hours ago, superkaur said:

Sri Guru granth sahib Ji is waheguru? Are you feeling ok?

Where did you get this new revealation? Guru gobind Singh ji never said this... nor did any of the Guru's they didnt say adi granth is Waheguru we must worship the saroop. Guru gobind singh ji forbade people to call him God and said those who did would be cursed. So when he transfered the Guruship to SGGS Ji he transfered only the Guruship not the God status you seem to have mistakenly believed in.

So all these years you been worshipping literally worshipping SGGS Ji as an idol as God? like hindus do with their idols like the dehra premis worship their cult leaders as God.

Oh dear no wonder your so lost.... people like you need alot of help understanding Sikhi if your that lost

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru and Vaheguru as Shabad Guru/Gurbani teaches.  In your ignorance you compare Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to an idol.  Please stop reading half baked scholars verbal diarrhea as the truth.  Adi Granth Sahib ji was placed on Baba Buddha ji head as Sri Guru Arjun Dev did chaur sahib over Adi Granth Sahib ji.  Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji slept on the floor and Adi Granth took the bed.  Such are the teachings of my Guru.  Please don't take my Guru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji Bani out of context.  Read the full pankti and Guru Sahib says don't see any difference between Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji and Vaheguru....paraphrase.  Related Shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and Dasam Bani on who is the Guru have to be taken to figure out the puzzle.  Gursikhs, Gurmukhs, Sants, Brahmgyanis, Bhagats, Sikhs who writing are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji all agree Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the Guru and Vaheguru (nirankar).  

I was just talking to someone about the shakti of Gurbani and saying only those can speak of Gurbani who have experienced the power and natural attraction.  How a Sikh can hear clearly Gurbani coming from another Gursikhs mouth even though his lips are not moving.  How both naturally draw to each other and enjoy each other presence in Vaheguru praise. Such are the blessed moments enjoyed.  Such amazing feeling comes over the mind that can't be measured or explained.  Vaheguru praise is so great.  His miracles are so wonderful, his actions are so beautiful.  We as mere ants can only beg to see his feet.  How sweet his feet must be, the radiance, the glory, the magnificent view of his feet.  How lucky are such Gursikhs who see his feet as they read Gurbani.  Even the most evil minded people fall before his feet and ask for the greatest blessing of all.  Bringing the mind to listen to his teachings in Gurbani.  Over and over beating the mind till it gives up and falls at Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji feet.  Such a difficult task done with Guru's grace is his glory alone.  All victory belongs to him.  No one else has a say in his doings.  Continuously singing his praise is the only job of the householder.  Beating the mind to recognize he is the only one who creates and acts is very difficult.  The mind wants to say it has a permanent existence in this illusion.  The mind does not realize Vaheguru is inside and out of the body.  Even after recognizing this truth the mind wants to proclaim guruship.  Believing it can reach the feet of Vaheguru.  Such foolish acts are done in vain.  Lost in the 3 gunas the mind begs for shells and loses sight of the jewel placed close to the shell.  Without the jewel Vaheguru can't be found.  His grace, peace of mind, love and praise is only received when the mind is placed before the feet of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and ready to follow every instruction.  Give the mind to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and let him rewrite the minds programming.  How can the mind recognize what it does not know about.  Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind its mistakes and bring it to accept it has no power.  Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind how to ask for and what to ask for and why.  All praise belongs to him.  His instructions are perfect and complete.  Only he can teach who is perfect as Vaheguru.  Others are only lost in their ego and babble on.  Vaho vaho Bani Nirankar hai

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pavitarsk    84
16 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru and Vaheguru as Shabad Guru/Gurbani teaches.  In your ignorance you compare Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to an idol.  Please stop reading half baked scholars verbal diarrhea as the truth.  Adi Granth Sahib ji was placed on Baba Buddha ji head as Sri Guru Arjun Dev did chaur sahib over Adi Granth Sahib ji.  Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji slept on the floor and Adi Granth took the bed.  Such are the teachings of my Guru.  Please don't take my Guru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji Bani out of context.  Read the full pankti and Guru Sahib says don't see any difference between Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji and Vaheguru....paraphrase.  Related Shabads from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and Dasam Bani on who is the Guru have to be taken to figure out the puzzle.  Gursikhs, Gurmukhs, Sants, Brahmgyanis, Bhagats, Sikhs who writing are in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji all agree Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the Guru and Vaheguru (nirankar).  

I was just talking to someone about the shakti of Gurbani and saying only those can speak of Gurbani who have experienced the power and natural attraction.  How a Sikh can hear clearly Gurbani coming from another Gursikhs mouth even though his lips are not moving.  How both naturally draw to each other and enjoy each other presence in Vaheguru praise. Such are the blessed moments enjoyed.  Such amazing feeling comes over the mind that can't be measured or explained.  Vaheguru praise is so great.  His miracles are so wonderful, his actions are so beautiful.  We as mere ants can only beg to see his feet.  How sweet his feet must be, the radiance, the glory, the magnificent view of his feet.  How lucky are such Gursikhs who see his feet as they read Gurbani.  Even the most evil minded people fall before his feet and ask for the greatest blessing of all.  Bringing the mind to listen to his teachings in Gurbani.  Over and over beating the mind till it gives up and falls at Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji feet.  Such a difficult task done with Guru's grace is his glory alone.  All victory belongs to him.  No one else has a say in his doings.  Continuously singing his praise is the only job of the householder.  Beating the mind to recognize he is the only one who creates and acts is very difficult.  The mind wants to say it has a permanent existence in this illusion.  The mind does not realize Vaheguru is inside and out of the body.  Even after recognizing this truth the mind wants to proclaim guruship.  Believing it can reach the feet of Vaheguru.  Such foolish acts are done in vain.  Lost in the 3 gunas the mind begs for shells and loses sight of the jewel placed close to the shell.  Without the jewel Vaheguru can't be found.  His grace, peace of mind, love and praise is only received when the mind is placed before the feet of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and ready to follow every instruction.  Give the mind to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and let him rewrite the minds programming.  How can the mind recognize what it does not know about.  Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind its mistakes and bring it to accept it has no power.  Only the perfect instructor can teach the mind how to ask for and what to ask for and why.  All praise belongs to him.  His instructions are perfect and complete.  Only he can teach who is perfect as Vaheguru.  Others are only lost in their ego and babble on.  Vaho vaho Bani Nirankar hai

Well explained!

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Jacfsing2    1,845
7 hours ago, JSinghnz said:

Real Sikhs have no caste.

Read into context. This @jaspindjy believes in caste, and I was addressing his casteist behavior.

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Premi5    53
1 hour ago, JUSTAJATT said:

 

WHY DID ALL GURUS MARRY IN SAME CASTE OR SAME FAMILY TRADE??? 

 

A good question, answer to which I have no idea. 

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JSinghnz    925
1 hour ago, JUSTAJATT said:

Harm is ONLY done if you differentiate between castes. Castes are tribal trades. Nothing wrong with that is there??

It's society and ego that has created the problem. If one caste just looked at the other caste as tribal trade without differentiating or any prejudice, then there would simply be CAST and not CASTE-ISM.

If i'm a jatt and look at my naighbour the lohar  on the left or the panday wala kumar on the right and accept them as equal brothers and see their caste as their  trade and livelihood, then how am i being prejudice? I can address the lohar or kumar by their trades without showing any casteism, just like you address a teacher as master shaib, professor sahib, police officer as thanedaar sahib etc.. 

Problem is society and especially indian culture that started the divide and classifications. It's like clever masked slavery which the indians made it into.The swedes and other cultures had sam kind of tribal trades that had asscoiated tribal names, but they never dictated or formed some class system.

You call yourself some historian, but your understanding of this tribal concept is as poor as any typical desi. You just have some inferiority complex due to some past experience with jatts which makes you so anti-jatt.

I want you to answer me below question and also explain if the tribal trade came first OR some pompous brahmin dictated caste system. Then, if caste system was created by some sh#ts on a pedesatal, then should we get rid of tribal trade labels and surnames because of it?

WHY DID ALL GURUS MARRY IN SAME CASTE OR SAME FAMILY TRADE??? 

 

Only shameless non Sikhs can dare question the Gurus.

Had the Gurus not been there these retards would still be living a life of downtrodden Muslim slaves.

Edited by JSinghnz
Grammar
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Kira    1,219
5 hours ago, Premi5 said:

A good question, answer to which I have no idea. 

That's easily answered. The proposals came to them, they weren't actively seeking them. That same style of question is used by anti-Sikh elements to say woman are inferior in Sikhism as there were no "woman" Gurus, Why there are no female writers in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, why Guru Sahib took avtar in so called "khatri" caste and so on and so forth. 

Marriage proposals were constantly coming into their house, They simply picked the one who was destined to take Avtar as Guru Sahib's Mehal. Only the blind see the caste, As Batichar Natek makes it clear there are always forces at work on why certain divine beings come into certain families.

ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਾਤ ਅਰ ਪਤ ॥  makes it abundant all Sikhs have no caste, sure call them whatever you want with respect to their occupation, but adding their so called Caste into it is an oxymoron of the highest degree, almost akin to blasphemy and completely against Guru Gobind Singh Ji's words. But the so called Punjabi Caste System is based entirely in the Hindu one, So if you have any respect for Guru Gobind Singh Ji then follow his words. 

Edited by Kira
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