Why Sikhs cant be exonerated for rise of Ram Rahims in and around Punjab

[singhbj singh]

It's because they brazenly violated their own caste-less doctrine.

 

Who all are these followers of Ram Rahim swamping highways and streets of Haryana and Punjab?

Who all are these men, women and children ready to confront the State in case their leader, accused of serious criminal charges, is convicted on Friday?

How could someone who has made a spectacle of himself in his own films and someone who shows up in psychedelic outfits command such a support base?

Well, most of his disciples are Dalits.

http://www.dailyo.in/lite/politics/sikhs-gurmeet-ram-rahim-dera-sacha-sauda/story/1/19157.html

[dallysingh101]

51 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

It's because they brazenly violated their own caste-less doctrine.

 

Who all are these followers of Ram Rahim swamping highways and streets of Haryana and Punjab?

Who all are these men, women and children ready to confront the State in case their leader, accused of serious criminal charges, is convicted on Friday?

How could someone who has made a spectacle of himself in his own films and someone who shows up in psychedelic outfits command such a support base?

Well, most of his disciples are Dalits.

http://www.dailyo.in/lite/politics/sikhs-gurmeet-ram-rahim-dera-sacha-sauda/story/1/19157.html

Talking to certain Sikhs about casteism within the panth seems futile these days. Certain people's obsession with their caste identity seems to trump any logical argument about the harm it does. 

[singhbj singh]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Talking to certain Sikhs about casteism within the panth seems futile these days. Certain people's obsession with their caste identity seems to trump any logical argument about the harm it does. 

Funny thing is Gurmeet Ram Rahim is Jat, of the Sidhu sub-caste & Dalits revere him.

 

 

[Balkaar]

We Sikhs are #1 enemies of Sikhi today. We do more to harm our own faith than any Hindu or Musalman. 

[Tejvir]

22 hours ago, Balkaar said:

We Sikhs are #1 enemies of Sikhi today. We do more to harm our own faith than any Hindu or Musalman. 

That's why Dalits are following ram Rahim, they see his preaching of 'insaan'iate inclusive and not exclusive which I'm sorry to say is happening in Sikhi via caste based guru ghars.

I need to learn what Guru Sahib teaches in his writings in order to explain that it is not exclusive but for all humanity.

[singhbj singh]

What explains the huge popularity of deras in Punjab? Pramod Kumar , a social scientist, seeks to decode the reasons behind their rise & growth

What are the social roots of the deras?

The deras are poor cousins of institutionalised religions. They primarily represent the disadvantaged subaltern and the lower middle class. Their followers are people who subsist on the margins both in terms of economy and the caste system. There is no caste discrimination in deras.

What has caused the spread of deras?

The followers of the deras feel largely excluded from institutions such as village panchayats, district administrations, police and courts.
Their daily experiences range from denial of identity and dignity and coercive extraction of labour. They have far greater faith in the dera than in the political class or judiciary. They feel the dera is morally superior to these institutions.

For instance, many women like deras because they preach against consumption of alcohol and drug abuse which leads to lessening of domestic violence. The deras are a sub-culture; they create a new social capital which the followers appropriate. People also start marrying within the deras. Over the years, deras have accumulated land and property through state patronage, donations and business, enabling them to subsidise the impoverished, give them cereals and provide access to health facilities. Wherever the government and the political class fail, the deras step in and deliver. Followers believe deras have brought them the achhe din the state couldn't. The political class always tries to use their support base to their advantage in polls, while self-proclaimed godmen exploit the complete allegiance of followers to put pressure on the law.

What explains the popularity of the Dera Sacha Sauda chief?

He has reinvented the dera culture in a new market-driven economy. He wears flamboyant costumes and ornate jewellery, acts in films and makes money from them. He also knows how to use the electronic and social media.

Would you say that deras are a form protest against other religions?

Institutional religions have been intolerant of lower castes and have pushed them towards deras, which are a confluence of castes and religions. Why is Punjab such a fertile ground for deras? In Punjab, religious oral tradition is very strong. People don't interact as much with the text as listen to religious discourses (pravachans). In this cultural backdrop, gurus who can deliver sermons become popular. Punjab is known for its liberal religious tradition. Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj — different religions and sects found a place here. When people do not get to practice religion the way they want, they move to other choices.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/gurmeet-ram-rahim-reinvented-dera-culture/articleshow/60228418.cms

[Guest Jacfsing2]

On 8/24/2017 at 3:24 PM, Balkaar said:

We Sikhs are #1 enemies of Sikhi today. We do more to harm our own faith than any Hindu or Musalman. 

I do agree, that the greatest enemy are those who pretend to be Sikhs, but aren't really Sikhs. Sometimes people are too loyal to pre-Sikh loyalties, that the name of Vaheguru is an afterthought.

[Premi5]

We Sikhs need to wake up, but it will take many generations for the caste thing to be marginalised

[dallysingh101]

On 8/26/2017 at 5:28 PM, Premi5 said:

We Sikhs need to wake up, but it will take many generations for the caste thing to be marginalised

Wake up. It isn't even going in the right direction. Take a look at most modern 'Panjabi' films and a lot of the songs (by this I mean those released in last few years). They are heavily caste based. 

Maybe we should face facts and hold our hands up at the truth? Is this problem is entirely of our own making. 

[Balkaar]

On 8/26/2017 at 10:32 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

I do agree, that the greatest enemy are those who pretend to be Sikhs, but aren't really Sikhs. Sometimes people are too loyal to pre-Sikh loyalties, that the name of Vaheguru is an afterthought.

We shouldn't try to ration the blame here. Every one of us is guilty, all the fake Sikhs for continuing to breath life into the monstrosities of caste and sexism, and the rest of us 'real' Sikhs for doing nothing at all to stop them. We can only move forward as a people if we all acknowledge our personal complicity in the vandalism of our nation.