Singhballer

What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma achieved with Badal?

16 posts in this topic

20 hours ago, Singhballer said:

Many of the occurrences and facts I have presented above are not caused or created by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma. However, in being the leader of Dami Dami Taksal and the Sant Samaj, and having such warm and close relations with the Badal family, the SGPC, and Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), he has achieved very little in rectifying or ameliorating any of those issues in any meaningful way.

This is an extremely well-researched post. I do agree with many of your points about the wrongdoings of the SGPC. Even just one of them (like obliterating archaeological relics) would be an indictment of the SGPC. It is very painful to read about them doing this.

At the same time, I feel that your charge against Baba Harnam Singh is basically that he is not Guru Gobind Singh ji, and that he has not solved all the problems of the Sikh Panth, and led us into a glorious future. Now, while I am not a follower of Baba Harnam Singh, I would like to state that he is simply a human, and expecting him to solve all the problems of the Panth is a very, very high bar. As a dispirited Sikh, my expectations are much lower than yours, and as such, I'm willing to accept just a few accomplishments.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone serves the CM be it taksal, Sgpc,police, sant samaj nihangs akaal takhat the media the gangsters the drug smugglers the courts the lawyers AND THE CM FOLLOWS INSTRUCTIONS FROM CENTRAL 

This is the evil plan to make money and destroy Punjab and it's hereditary Sikhs

Edited by singh598

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BhForce said:

This is an extremely well-researched post. I do agree with many of your points about the wrongdoings of the SGPC. Even just one of them (like obliterating archaeological relics) would be an indictment of the SGPC. It is very painful to read about them doing this.

At the same time, I feel that your charge against Baba Harnam Singh is basically that he is not Guru Gobind Singh ji, and that he has not solved all the problems of the Sikh Panth, and led us into a glorious future. Now, while I am not a follower of Baba Harnam Singh, I would like to state that he is simply a human, and expecting him to solve all the problems of the Panth is a very, very high bar. As a dispirited Sikh, my expectations are much lower than yours, and as such, I'm willing to accept just a few accomplishments.

My original post may need more clarity in how I present my ideas; I was not trying to put across the point that Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma must fit the mold of a leader who solves all the Panth's problems and leads us to a future of prosperity and growth. Those are lofty expectations. I do not believe that's the standard Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma should be held to.

I was merely trying to question: are the "accomplishments" of Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma significant or are they miniscule and non-impactful for the Panth's future, especially in comparison to the immense challenges and issues we face. 

People will argue that Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has used his leadership position in Dam Dami Taksal and the Sant Samaj, as well as, his support of and relationship with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), to make important progress in issues of the Panth. I don't believe he has. I don't believe he has made any significant progress in addressing any of those larger problems of the Panth even whilst having his strong political affiliations.

My intention was to point out that:

  1. The most dire and severe issues of the Panth have not been addressed in any compelling fashion by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma over the last decade, at a time when he has cultivated powerful connections with Punjab's political overlords. 
  2. He is not an individual who possesses necessary skills and character traits, such as long-sightedness, integrity, strategic planning/thinking, principles, conviction, etc., to be a useful, productive, valuable, and helpful leader that can earnestly contribute to the Panth's progression. 
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BhForce said:

This is an extremely well-researched post. I do agree with many of your points about the wrongdoings of the SGPC. Even just one of them (like obliterating archaeological relics) would be an indictment of the SGPC. It is very painful to read about them doing this.

At the same time, I feel that your charge against Baba Harnam Singh is basically that he is not Guru Gobind Singh ji, and that he has not solved all the problems of the Sikh Panth, and led us into a glorious future. Now, while I am not a follower of Baba Harnam Singh, I would like to state that he is simply a human, and expecting him to solve all the problems of the Panth is a very, very high bar. As a dispirited Sikh, my expectations are much lower than yours, and as such, I'm willing to accept just a few accomplishments.

Dhumma calls himself the head of DamDami Taksal.  He's a fraud and never will be head.  Taksal Jathedar's main duty is to teach Gurbani pronunciation, meaning and increase Gurmat parchar.  Dhumma has not even done one of the above duties of Taksal.  Bhai Gurdev Singh ji Kuanke would have been the next Jathedar of Taksal if it would have been anyone.  Bhai Sahib increased Gurmat parchar by taking villagers out of the rut they were in. Why has manmat parchar increased (missionaries) since Baba Thakur Singh ji left this earth because the fake jathedar of Taksal was to busy massaging Badal.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

I disagree that Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has achieved many things by siding with Parkash Badal and his Dal. 

What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma accomplished in the affairs of the SGPC, Punjab's Government, or Sikh sovereignty since he's headed Dam Dami Taksal Mehta, headed the Sant Samaj, and nurtured such a warm relationship with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal) at large? 

I see a few things that may be seen as accomplishments by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma

  1. The 1984 memorial complex being created
  2. The removal of the Nanakshahi calendar
  3. Getting approval for Taksal's kathavachaks to do parchar from Manji Sahib
  4. A "Martyr's Gallery" at the 1984 memorial

 

5. Helping get rid of Delhi's Malechh committee of Sarna and co, and restarting katha there including katha of Sri Dasme Granth Sahib.

 

The above accomplishments are a great acheivement if you were to consider what the situation would be like had this not been done.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

On a panthic level, can any of the above be termed as any significant achievement or contribution for our nation by a person who heads one of the oldest Sikh schools, an organization of Sants/Vidhvaans, and has relations with influential political leaders? They can not; these are paltry victories in the face of immense issues of our community. 

The biggest issues of the Panth (including but not limited to):

  1. The decline of Sikhi in Punjab
    1. Due to things like: Proliferation of drugs, lack of parchaar and spiritual sustenance, government suppression of Sikh movements
  2. Lack of justice and healing from 1984 and following genocide
    1. Tens of thousands Sikhs killed, tortured, detained, made political prisoners, and continued mass impunity for perpetrators 
  3. Corruption at the Akal Thakht, SGPC, and Sikh institutions 

 

All these things were in place when Sant Jarnail Singh and Baba Thakur Singh were alive. While more Sikhs were religious definitely it is wrong to put these regressions at Baba Harnam Singh personal responsibility.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

Focussing on the SGPC, has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done much of anything to elicit worthwhile change in all the shortcomings, mismanagement, corruption, and overall foolishness of the SGPC?

 

The original plan was to support Badal which meant that Badal had to commit 40 SGPC seats to Sant Samaj. These 40 Sant Samaj nominees won their seats but the congress party took the elections to court where there was a stay of power so the previous SGPC continued as was. The case took 6 years to reach a verdict. If these Sikhs had been able to take their place in SGPC there would most likely have been a great change.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

Lack of Justice and Healing from 1984 and following genocide, What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done with his influence on the Badal family and SGPC in that area?

  • Thousands of Punjab police officers involved in our genocide have roamed with impunity. Badal Dal, while promising over many elections, particularly in the 1990s to punish all the guilty has done the complete opposite. They have sheltered, protected, rewarded, and saluted those same officers, and not just the big boys like Sumedh Saini, Izhar Alam, etc.. Did Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma do anything to use his political influence on the Badals to have impartial investigations, charges, and eventual punish meted down for the guilty?
  • Some may know that the Shiromani Akali Dal used to have a "Shiromani Akali Dal Human Right Wing"; Jaswant Singh Khalra was the General Secretary of it. Why do you think that wing has gone into oblivion? Khalra and others working in that wing investigated and uncovered the crimes of the government. The Badals don't want such crimes to see the light of day and have as such instituted policy not to support human right endeavours in the political party of the Sikhs or the SGPC. Has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done anything to get the SGPC or Akali Dal to mobilise their resources toward hiring investigators, former police officers, former judges, or lawyers to research, investigate, and expose to the world, and begin legal proceedings for all those crimes that were committed against the Sikhs?
  • Jathedar Gurdev Singh Kaunke was tortured and murdered by Jagraon Police. A report was conducted by the Punjab government but was never released. Badal promised to release it if it came into power. He never did. What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done to get that report released? Especially since this particul victim was of such high regard from Dam Dami Taksal.

 

I agree with you here. Baba Harnam Singh could have and should have done more to move badals hand against the ravan sena. However the problem here was that Badal did not want to pursue these cases himself as it would have made more people aware of the crimes of the ravan sena.

With Kaunke's case, I beleive it was given to the CBI of india to investigate. Not sure, but Harnam Singh should definitely have kept this issue alive.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

Corruption at the Akal Thakht, SGPC, and Sikh institutions"

  • The Akal Thakht and SGPC has been controlled by the political overlords, whether it was Tohra or Talwandi exerting their influence, or the Badals in the modern day. The "leaders" of our nation in the form of Thakht Jathedars are chosen by the Badals to be "yes men", support the status-quo, and be wielded for political gain. The SGPC president is chosen in this exact way too. What has Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma done to change these political interferences and institute a system by with the nation chooses its leaders? What actions has he taken to ensure leadership at these levels works for the betterment of the community instead of the political betterment of the Badal family? 
  • While everyone makes much fuss over the Indian government destroying and stealing our priceless historical artifacts in 1984, the destruction that the SGPC has either directly or indirectly caused to our heritage is spectacular. Dozens if not hundreds of buildings razed or allowed to crumble. The possessions and artifacts of our Guru's and prominent Sikhs decay and turn to dust; this is living history going to waste forever to be inaccessible to our future generations. 

 

It is unfair to blame Harnam Singh for these. He had a plan to chnage the SGPC but it was foiled. PLus this was always there when Sant jarnail Singh was there, but no-one blamed him for corruption even though at times he was close to Akali Dal leadership because of the morcha.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

Finally, while he has been President of the Sant Samaj for a great length of time, the other Vidhvaans of the organization have become disillusioned with his leadership or lack-there-of. Mahapurakhs like Baba Lakhbir Singh Ratwara Sahib, Baba Hari Singh Randhawe wale, Baba Amir Singh Jawaddi Taksal wale, Baba Seva Singh Rampur Khere wale all have left or distanced themselves from the Sant Samaj due to its wayward leadership and direction. - https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/02/03/93-sant-samaj-leaders-part-ways-baba-harnam-singh-dhumma/

 

The Sant Samaj originally came together for the SGPC elections which unfotunately they were unable to see through to the end. After this various leaders as such who really had no desire to involve themsleves in any politics left.

 

On 11/08/2017 at 2:43 AM, Singhballer said:

Many of the occurrences and facts I have presented above are not caused or created by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma. However, in being the leader of Dami Dami Taksal and the Sant Samaj, and having such warm and close relations with the Badal family, the SGPC, and Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), he has achieved very little in rectifying or ameliorating any of those issues in any meaningful way. It is treachery and deception with the Panth for Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma to have aligned, supported, and collaborated with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal); and to think, I haven't even mentioned Badal's and the Shiromani Akali Dal's collusion and cooperation in the June 1984 attack and subsequent smothering of the resistance movement. 

 

Those warm relations were there for a purpose. As i have said many times here, in the life and death struggles of the Dal Panth, even they made political/military alliances with the moghals. I wouldn't criticize those Sikhs because they beleived they were acting in the interests of the Panth by siding with an enemy that had committed pogroms against them many times and killed thousands and thousands of Sikhs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/08/2017 at 0:15 AM, InderjitS said:

These sum up the Dhumma or  as I like to call him - Gimli (but only in looks) from LOTR :p, he has helped bring DD Taksal to it's knees. 

 

Image result for harnam singh dhumma, badal

 

Fair enough this photo makes him gimli. But thats a small price to pay if some turaiya avastha Sikhs want to call him gimli, for me. This is one of those results. This would not have been possible without "gimli", but i would rather have "gimli" and other taksalis doing katha than dhunda and jachak.

 

59909dbaacee3_harnamsinghkathabanglasahib.jpg.c98e49687d5fe49867c245ae3e042e1a.jpg

 

59909dcab0a3c_gurpreetsinghcalifbanglasahib.jpg.a032c11526a400338d78822659386fd8.jpg

 

59909dddc6261_bantasingh3.jpg.ca17ec9a922eaf534d556d2d9c69d908.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dhumma was planted as the jathedar of Taksal by Badal.  This is one of the reasons Taksal does not accept him as the jathedar.  Dhumma was planted as jathedar because he would go with Badal orders.  Dhumma is the dog of badal.  Hence he is sitting on the ground with his two front paws gripping badal arm for his masters attention.  

Never has any Taksal jathedar given away his and Khalsa Panth izzat to achieve any sort of goal.  Whenever a Taksal Jathedar's was asked to give away izzat, he always refused.  Only planted Jathedar's like dhumma give away their izzat and Khalsa Panth izzat.  

Edited by Akalifauj
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Dhumma was planted as the jathedar of Taksal by Badal.

 

Why would badal give Ram Singh recognition as head of the taksal if he had planted Harnam Singh as the head?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, chatanga said:

5. Helping get rid of Delhi's Malechh committee of Sarna and co, and restarting katha there including katha of Sri Dasme Granth Sahib.

The above accomplishments are a great acheivement if you were to consider what the situation would be like had this not been done.

Bring in Sarna or Badal, their ineptitude toward the betterment of the Panth is the same. 

Getting a memorial or gallery made is not all that valuable in the face of big problems we're facing. 

Getting the Nanakshahi calendar removed and installing panthic leaning Kathavachaks in Delhi and Amritsar:

  • The Nanakshahi calendar was removed without any proper consultation, discussion, debate, or agreement in the Panth. Its lunacy to push the change through without taking into account the opinions of the Panth. Thus, all those who have been convinced of the merits of the Nanakshahi calendar have animosity toward Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma and the Sant Samaj for doing it. Even if the Bikrami calendar is the best choice, or maybe a 3rd alternative calendar being better, but to make the decision unilaterally shows that Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has no meaningful desire to build connections, bridges and unity in the Panth. He follows the same classic Indian strongman move of implementing your full whim and will when you have power while not caring for the affects on others. 
  • Getting Panthic kathavachaks back into Delhi and Amritsar is Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's and others' response to the preaching of left-leaning kathavachacks is fine and dandy, but how does it bring unity? If they were shouting, now we're just shouting back. While presenting your own ideas and interpretations in a sound and ration way without enmity is fine, and I encourage it, Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma and the Sant Samaj has failed to address the actual problem and close the gaping opinionated divide. Again, its the strongman move, we have clout in political circles so let's use it to push our agenda without being principled and trying to foster cooperation and consolidation in the Panth.This shows Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's lack of strategic acumen, he is unable to properly diagnose the problem and come up with a strategy to tackle it while bringing Sikhs together. 
  • Whether its our calendar, maryada, or history/philosophy, no one can unilaterally decide what it correct and what isn't. The Guru gave us the Guru Granth-Guru Panth system, which is a tradition long dead and not up for re-installment by the political overlords. Until such time that the entire Panth can assemble Sarbat Khalsa, create a plan to debate and discuss these issues, and come to a conclusion and consensus, these issues will only fester and grow worse. Shouting back and forth at each other will not unite the Panth on these issues, no matter how true and correct one side might be in the debate. 
    • If Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma was truly a visionary, he would see that trying to work within Badal's political setup is futile. You're getting cents on the dollar. Peanuts. The revolutionary change to ideas centuries old is what is needed. Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma knows of our history ten times better than any of us yet fails to see that the only time multiple factions of the Panth were truly largely united was when the Sarbat Khalsa system was in place and operating. 
    • Baba Hari Singh Randhawe Wale have said in Katha before that these politicians don't have the Panth's betterment in mind. They say one thing, do another thing. He recounted the many times he approached the former President of the SGPC, Gurcharan Singh Tohra, to resolve the maryada issue and have one Panthic maryada implemented. Tohra would always say they'd take it into consideration and will do something to get the discussions started but never did over all those years of Baba Hari Singh asking. Why not? Unity of the Panth does not align with the values and interests of the political class and they have proven that over the past four decades. Again, it shows lack of clarity in thought and critical thinking on Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma to not be able to see his plan of action is ultimately folly. 

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

All these things were in place when Sant Jarnail Singh and Baba Thakur Singh were alive. While more Sikhs were religious definitely it is wrong to put these regressions at Baba Harnam Singh personal responsibility.

It is unfair to blame Harnam Singh for these. He had a plan to chnage the SGPC but it was foiled. PLus this was always there when Sant jarnail Singh was there, but no-one blamed him for corruption even though at times he was close to Akali Dal leadership because of the morcha.

I do not blame Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma for causation, I said the following in my original post:

"Many of the occurrences and facts I have presented above are not caused or created by Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma. However, in being the leader of Dami Dami Taksal and the Sant Samaj, and having such warm and close relations with the Badal family, the SGPC, and Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), he has achieved very little in rectifying or ameliorating any of those issues in any meaningful way. It is treachery and deception with the Panth for Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma to have aligned, supported, and collaborated with the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal)"

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

The original plan was to support Badal which meant that Badal had to commit 40 SGPC seats to Sant Samaj. These 40 Sant Samaj nominees won their seats but the congress party took the elections to court where there was a stay of power so the previous SGPC continued as was. The case took 6 years to reach a verdict. If these Sikhs had been able to take their place in SGPC there would most likely have been a great change.

Only 30 seats were allocated to Sant Samaj, out of a grand total of 170! I do not believe there would be any more change than there is now, they would have held 17.64% of the seats of a majority. This was not a coalition where Badal needs the Sant Samaj's votes to pass anything, and as such they hold no leverage over Badal. 

Do you have any documents or information that gives you a clear picture of what changes Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma and the Sant Samaj were going to bring about and what they're action plan looked like after winning those 30 seats? And did said plan look plausible? 

The SGPC was put in limbo by the case but has been run by its de-facto leaders since then, the Badals, and all its operation are still ongoing with them at the helm. The Sant Samaj and Badal still have the same supporting relationship, even more so now than in 2011, and thus I believe the political power the Sant Samaj has now is what they would receive even if the new SGPC house had gone into operation. 

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

I agree with you here. Baba Harnam Singh could have and should have done more to move badals hand against the ravan sena. However the problem here was that Badal did not want to pursue these cases himself as it would have made more people aware of the crimes of the ravan sena.

With Kaunke's case, I beleive it was given to the CBI of india to investigate. Not sure, but Harnam Singh should definitely have kept this issue alive.

Who do you refer to by "ravan sena"? 

It would have made people aware of the crimes of the Punjab government, which he orchestrated in part, and aided, abetted, and sheltered from justice the thousands of officers and government officials that were responsible for our genocide. Badal has blood on his hands too, not just CM Beant Singh. You may not be aware, but false encounters in Punjab started under Parkash Badal in the 1970s when he had the Punjab police extra-judicially killing leftist activists and 'comrades'. 

I can't find a source at the moment but from what I remember, the CBI submitted their report to the Punjab government and the Punjab government under Badal never released the report. 

But here's something that shows you the counterfeit an insincere concern for the Panthi's issues:

-https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.religion.sikhism/UJ96Dtk4neQ

While Badal asked for an investigation when he wasn't in power this was what he said when he got in power on Kaunke's case.

"Parkash Singh Badal, now the Chief Minister of Punjab, condemned this action. He was briefly detained for his statement. Yet he has fused to refer this terrible incident for investigation by India's Central bureau of Investigation (CBI) on the flimsy pretext that it would demoralize the murderous, out-of-control Punjab police."

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

It is unfair to blame Harnam Singh for these. He had a plan to chnage the SGPC but it was foiled. PLus this was always there when Sant jarnail Singh was there, but no-one blamed him for corruption even though at times he was close to Akali Dal leadership because of the morcha.

See excerpt from my original post above. 

Sant Jarnail Singh started his own morcha. The Akali Dal wanted to align their morcha with his. They mutually did that for the adoption of the Anandpur Sahib Resolution. Sant Jarnail Singh did not support the Shiromani Akali Dal in SGPC election, he supported candidates who stood against them. He did not voice his support for the party or its candidates any election, only collaborated to keep the Panth on one platform for the Dharam Yudh Morcha. 

He neither trusted, confided, or made himself vulnerable to the Akali politicians. He took his own course and created and arms-length partnership for the morcha. This is a very different political strategy to Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's of throwing full support behind the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal) and cozying up to the political elite. 

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

The Sant Samaj originally came together for the SGPC elections which unfotunately they were unable to see through to the end. After this various leaders as such who really had no desire to involve themsleves in any politics left.

The Sant Samaj was in operation long before the 2011 SGPC elections. The Sant Samaj actually fought the 2004 elections under the Panthic Morcha against SAD (Badal). http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110810/punjab.htm#10

Those leaders did not leave because they had no desire to involve themselves in politics anymore. That is a fictitious assertion.

  • These leaders had contested the 2004 elections too and stayed united after their loss then. What changed? 
  • These leaders left not in 2011 or the following years but in 2016/2017. Why then? That's when the beadbi incidents were happening the the hapless Punjab government and SGPC, both under Badal, did next to nothing constructive to solve the situation and instead used violence against protesters and killed Sikhs. Even after these facts when the many Sant Samaj members were justifiably angry with Badal and wanting to mobilise against him, it was the forever devoted Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma that came out with unwavering support for Badal and his party for the next elections. 
  • This was also following the pardon to the Sirsa pakhandi by the Akal Thakht by orders of the Badal family and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal)'s subsequent support from the Sirsa pakhandi
  • https://sikhsiyasat.net/2017/02/03/93-sant-samaj-leaders-part-ways-baba-harnam-singh-dhumma/ - Read the article, the 93 leaders "have distanced themselved from Baba Harnam Singh's announcement to support the Badals"
  • Its Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's feeble leadership that has fractured the Sant Samaj

 

19 hours ago, chatanga said:

Those warm relations were there for a purpose. As i have said many times here, in the life and death struggles of the Dal Panth, even they made political/military alliances with the moghals. I wouldn't criticize those Sikhs because they beleived they were acting in the interests of the Panth by siding with an enemy that had committed pogroms against them many times and killed thousands and thousands of Sikhs.

  • Those Sikhs who took Nawabis from the Mughals established their autonomous control and helped to grow the Panth and its interests. Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's strategy gives the Panth no autonomy, no control, and he has not pushed forward the Panth's interests in any worthwhile long-lasting way. 
Edited by Singhballer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good post, I'm neither pro or anti Dhumma. It's clear he isn't Sant Jarnail Singh, it's clear he is being controlled by politicians but he has used that for his and I guess the Quoms advantage with the good he has helped bring. I don't agree with the hit on Dhadriawale or how someone who is Gursikh let alone the Mukhi of the Taksal could sit next to azar alam. But I think all us need to realise that in Punjab sadly politics comes before religion, whilst religion is used as a political front. In regards to state of Punjab as a whole, we need all jathebandiyah to make proactive steps. Funny how we all Sat in UK Europe Canada and USA point at the wrongs in Punjab, look at the state of apneh here, nasheh, lack of Keshdhari jawaans  alcohol, girls going with gori kaleh suleh etc whilst the jathebandiyah seem to busy fighting amongst themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like i said i am neither pro or anti dhumma, but he aint the only one laying claim to the Taksaal. What have the others achieved... i.e. Ram Singh? Ajnala? UK Dharam Yudh Jatha?

Out of those I know Ajnala has been there for the beadbi cases and against pakhandi babeh etc, Ram Singh I dont know much about and UK Dharam Yudh Jatha apart from making videos and cussing others, I havent seen anything proactive be done in either the UK or ground level Punjab.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • What was their run in over? A lot of the ISYF guys are khalistan lifers bro, sure some were snakes, but a lot still haven't turned their backs on it. Bains idk, he was briefly giving Badal a chance but cut him out very quick. I'd say he went neutral, rather pro-govt. Chauhan, Sohan and all them, still trying to learn more about them.  Very true. If they willed, they could set up Punjab, but why would they? I wouldn't be surprised if the fed govt already is waiting for agriculture to fail, and have a back up planned. They're too smart to remain dependant on Sikhs/Punjab. 
    • It sounds like you have issues with your situation that are being played out vicariously through your daughter.. The issue seems to be one between you and your relationship with your husband.. I think in this situation and to make sense of it,  it is worth disregarding the fact you are both amritdhari. You start by saying he is a angry man, and that you to get angry.. You also say that your daughter gets a lot of love.. It sounds very much like you feel that you have no control over your environment and are a passive player.. And hence the one thing you do have immutable influence over ie. Your daughter has become the battle ground...  Fundamentally it sounds like you're husband is not fulfilling his duties by raising his hand to your dastar he has committed a heinous act of violence..  You don't actually say anything bad about your mother in law so whilst she is not reprimanding your husband may be she is indirectly trying to express her love via your daughter.  You have no reason to feel guilty about your actions sounds like you are frustrated and upset and that needs to be addressed.. You need to speak to people around you not just your husband but may be your mother in law.. And share with her your feelings of powerlessness..  You may already have done some of these things but reading between the lines of what you have written fundamentally it seems like you are unhappy with your husbands behaviour..  Please forgive me if I have misunderstood  Good luck sister  SSA 
    • If you ask me, it's a declaration of war for someone to be pulling a Dastar, I wouldn't ever even tell Non-Sikhs to take off their religious objects; however, an Amritdhari telling another Amritdhari not to wear Dastar is what I'd consider an impossible situation. If you agree with the husband's actions, (which you said previously you don't), then I'd understand where you are coming from.   You seem to have some idealised worldview where every old person is some Mahapurukh, reality-check that's not the case at all, you may be blessed to have a Mahapurukh family, or you may not, the key is each individual case is different, if I heard that any of my female relatives were being insulted openly by some of their in-laws, I'd recommend the same. I haven't insulted any line of any shabad or your interpretation of the Shabad; however, you have to read the entire Shabad to grasp the full-meaning. But even what you are referring to is qualities of ancestors, not the ancestors themselves. Never claimed that. . They were Sikh sakhis, Modern Hinduism was only made when the Indo-Aryans and the Dravidians conquered the Adivasi population. Sikhi has existed since beginning of time. For the sake of keeping the topic at hand relevant, and since I respect you enough not to argue on something like this, I won't discuss more on whether the Sakhis are Hindu or Sikh. Ajamal was a Sikh, and the purpose of the Sakhi is to tell future Sikhs not to be going to prostitutes like Ganika. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji even prevented from whom if I remember correctly Bhai Joga Singh from going to prostitutes. (If this wrong, you have every right to correct me). Never did and Hopefully with his grace, never will. 
    • Well, if it's impossible, sure. But note that the the impossibility stems from krodh (anger) and haumai (ego) all around. Yet the same anger and ego that makes it impossible for a nuclear family to live with dadi also makes it impossible for husband and wife to live together, and then when the wife splits off, for the children to live with the mother and they will want to be legally emancipated because it's "impossbile". What we end up with is simply the same thing as the 21st century Leftist West: Do whatever you want to do. Which is another name for manmat: Doing what your mann wants. Seriously, bro? The tuk is Guru Sahib's, not mine. You are effectively questioning Gurbani. In any case, the point is not necessarily dadi recounting "we used to idol-worship Shiva back in the day", but all manner of things that your ancestors did: Some examples: how we cultivated the jungle region of Pakistan, the pain of partition, how people used to live simply, how we lost our business due to inability to pay back a loan and we had to struggle for 2 decades to get back on our feet,  how your grandfather's brother was born genetically deformed and how he had to help him all his life, how the servant was so poor she could not marry her daughter so we helped her out, etc, etc. Bro, dharam is not the same thing as getting up and doing Japji Sahib and wearing 5 kakkars (though that's required for us indeed). Dharam is not something that didn't exist before Guru Nanak Dev ji, and just came into existence when Guru Sahib was born, or started parchar. Dharam is something greater, and older. Read this tuk: ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਖੀ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਪਿਆਰ ॥ Listen to the stories of the devotees, O my mind, and meditate with love. Now a question for you: Do you think the sakhis that Guru sahib says to listen to are "Sikh" sakhis or "Hindu" sakhis. Don't look ahead and cheat!!       ---- Answer: "Hindu" sakhis:   ਬਸੰਤੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਦੁਤੁਕੀਆ Basant, Fifth Mohalla, First House, Du-Tukee: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਖੀ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਪਿਆਰ ॥ Listen to the stories of the devotees, O my mind, and meditate with love. ਅਜਾਮਲੁ ਉਧਰਿਆ ਕਹਿ ਏਕ ਬਾਰ ॥ Ajaamal uttered the Lord's Name once, and was saved. ਬਾਲਮੀਕੈ ਹੋਆ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ॥ Baalmeek found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ਧ੍ਰੂ ਕਉ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਸੰਗ ॥੧॥ The Lord definitely met Dhroo. ||1|| ਤੇਰਿਆ ਸੰਤਾ ਜਾਚਉ ਚਰਨ ਰੇਨ ॥ I beg for the dust of the feet of Your Saints. ਲੇ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਾਵਉ ਕਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਦੇਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Please bless me with Your Mercy, Lord, that I may apply it to my forehead. ||1||Pause|| ਗਨਿਕਾ ਉਧਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਕਹੈ ਤੋਤ ॥ Ganika the prostitute was saved, when her parrot uttered the Lord's Name. ਗਜਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਓ ਮੋਖ ॥ The elephant meditated on the Lord, and was saved. ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਸੁਦਾਮੇ ਦਾਲਦੁ ਭੰਜ ॥ He delivered the poor Brahmin Sudama out of poverty. ਰੇ ਮਨ ਤੂ ਭੀ ਭਜੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ॥੨॥ O my mind, you too must meditate and vibrate on the Lord of the Universe. ||2|| ਬਧਿਕੁ ਉਧਾਰਿਓ ਖਮਿ ਪ੍ਰਹਾਰ ॥ Even the hunter who shot an arrow at Krishna was saved. ਕੁਬਿਜਾ ਉਧਰੀ ਅੰਗੁਸਟ ਧਾਰ ॥ Kubija the hunchback was saved, when God placed His Feet on her thumb. ਬਿਦਰੁ ਉਧਾਰਿਓ ਦਾਸਤ ਭਾਇ ॥ Bidar was saved by his attitude of humility. ਰੇ ਮਨ ਤੂ ਭੀ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੩॥ O my mind, you too must meditate on the Lord. ||3|| ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਰਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਪੈਜ ਆਪ ॥ The Lord Himself saved the honor of Prahlaad. ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਛੀਨਤ ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਰਖੀ ਲਾਜ ॥ Even when she was being disrobed in court, Dropatee's honor was preserved. ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਅੰਤ ਬਾਰ ॥ Those who have served the Lord, even at the very last instant of their lives, are saved. ਰੇ ਮਨ ਸੇਵਿ ਤੂ ਪਰਹਿ ਪਾਰ ॥੪॥ O my mind, serve Him, and you shall be carried across to the other side. ||4|| ਧੰਨੈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਬਾਲ ਬੁਧਿ ॥ Dhanna served the Lord, with the innocence of a child. ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਭਈ ਸਿਧਿ ॥ Meeting with the Guru, Trilochan attained the perfection of the Siddhas. ਬੇਣੀ ਕਉ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਓ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ॥ The Guru blessed Baynee with His Divine Illumination. ਰੇ ਮਨ ਤੂ ਭੀ ਹੋਹਿ ਦਾਸੁ ॥੫॥ O my mind, you too must be the Lord's slave. ||5|| ਜੈਦੇਵ ਤਿਆਗਿਓ ਅਹੰਮੇਵ ॥ Jai Dayv gave up his egotism. ਨਾਈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ਸੈਨੁ ਸੇਵ ॥ Sain the barber was saved through his selfless service. ਮਨੁ ਡੀਗਿ ਨ ਡੋਲੈ ਕਹੂੰ ਜਾਇ ॥ Do not let your mind waver or wander; do not let it go anywhere. ਮਨ ਤੂ ਭੀ ਤਰਸਹਿ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੬॥ O my mind, you too shall cross over; seek the Sanctuary of God. ||6||\ ਜਿਹ ਅਨੁਗ੍ਰਹੁ ਠਾਕੁਰਿ ਕੀਓ ਆਪਿ ॥ O my Lord and Master, You have shown Your Mercy to them. ਸੇ ਤੈਂ ਲੀਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਰਾਖਿ ॥ You saved those devotees. ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਗੁਣੁ ਅਵਗਣੁ ਨ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਓ ਕੋਇ ॥ You do not take their merits and demerits into account. ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਮਨੁ ਲਗਾ ਸੇਵ ॥੭॥ Seeing these ways of Yours, I have dedicated my mind to Your service. ||7|| ਕਬੀਰਿ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਏਕ ਰੰਗ ॥ Kabeer meditated on the One Lord with love. ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਬਸਹਿ ਸੰਗਿ ॥ Naam Dayv lived with the Dear Lord. ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਧਿਆਏ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਨੂਪ ॥ Ravi Daas meditated on God, the Incomparably Beautiful. ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥ Guru Nanak Dayv is the Embodiment of the Lord of the Universe. ||8||1||   ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮਃ ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੧੯੨    Was Ajamal a "Hindu" or a "Sikh"? Why did Guru Sahib tell us to remember his sakhI? Please answer these two questions. Don't doubt Guru Sahib. He is Satguru, we are followers. Note for Hinduphobes: If you read the entire shabad, Guru Arjan Dev ji lists all the "Hindu" personalities that we should remember, but at the very end says Guru Nanak Dev ji is the very form of God. Meaning that the Avatars (Ram Chander, Krishan Bhagvan, etc.) had some level of powers from God, but they were not God. Not so for Guru Nanak Dev ji.
    • anyone watch these 2 documentaries that were made? if so whats your thoughts?