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[pavitarsk]

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[JS79]

Taha bekunth jeh keertan tera.... whereever we do kirtan that is heaven. 

Raaj na chaho mukat na chaho.... i dont need power nor mukti.

84 lakh joons are birtiya of the mind. We people get these characteristics by animalistic actions. The only hell and heaven is what we experience presently. 

There is no dharamraja. Maharaj uses dharamraj as an example because it would help ppl understand. Like chittar gupt, are chittar gupt bigger than maharaj? Why would maharaj need dharamraj and chittar gupt when maharaj is sarab biapak and all knowing. Again and again gurbani uses examples. I can see disagreement here already. 
 

[Akalifauj]

On 08/08/2017 at 10:46 AM, scali said:

It seem like you are the type who keeps getting reincarnated again and again as a fanatic Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Jew and make the same claim everytime that your path is right one. Maybe you have a need to judge or be judged so I guess may take the scenic hell route where entites can't wait to spit their venom back at you like you do on this fourm.

Staying with Sukhmani Sahib, close to the beginning Guru Sahib says:

 

pRB kY ismrin griB n bsY ]

pRBU dw ismrn krn nwl (jIv) jnm ivc nhIN AwauNdw,

Remembering God, one does not have to enter into the womb again.

I looked up prof. Sahib singhs punjabi interpretation and he wrote one does not come into a life(jeev) form by birth.  There is no metaphor or allegory here according to prof. Sahib singh.  And I agree.  Other punjabi interpretation agree as well.  

 

But let's ignore them and say for a second there is a metaphor in here.  Say the womb is being described as mother earth as in japji sahib.  Does this negate or as the brother above says make it an illusion.

 

Remembering God, one does not have to enter into mother earth again.

 

This has done the opposite.  It has reinforced atma(soul)  don't comes back on mother earth by remembering God.  If they don't remember God then souls come back through mother earth.  How do souls come back to earth by mother earth? This sounds ridiculous as I am writing it but missionaries will push this view on gullible sangat.  What does mother earth consist of? The 5 elements.  What is the mother who has a womb made of? The 5 elements.  So we are back to the original interpretation given by prof. Sahib singh.

 

But let's say I'm very hard headed, a brick wall bounces off my head like a rubber ball.  Lets say the womb in the line is a manmat state of mind.  

 

Remembering God, one does not come into a manmat state of mind again.

 

In the above I have completely eliminate the meaning behind womb and completely eliminated the word womb out in the line? I have completely changed what was written in Gurbani. Can I do this? No because Guru Sahib is delivering a message of how not to enter the womb again by remembering God. I cannot change Gurbani to get rid of concepts I don't like. Neither is a manmat state of mind like the womb.  In the womb Vaheguru protects you even though the fire(maya) is also in the womb.  In a manmat state of mind their is no protection.  A person is engrossed by body and mind into manmat.    Therefore manmat state cannot be replaced by womb.  Only way the above interpretation can be accepted is if a person accepts the real meaning(Prof. Sahib singhs interpretation) along with this one.  This would be acceptable because Gurbani in other shabads says a person can escape manmat by remembering God.  The below is a correct interpretation:

 

Remembering God, one does not come into a life(jeev) form by birth.

 

This is correct because it captures the function of what the womb does and represents. Prof. Sahib singhs has interpreted the line perfectly.  It captures the message Guru Sahib is providing the reader and listener with.  

 

 

[Guest]

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[harsharan000]

On 15/8/2017 at 10:40 PM, OneBeing said:

That is true, but it'll take lifetimes for a great sinners sins to be washed away and forgiven.

Sorry to contradict you OneBeing, but brother Monatosingh is quite right above.

Just as it does not matter  if you have one bundle of dry grass or a room filled with it, in any case, just one spark is enough to burn any amount of dry grass. In a similar way Wahihguru´s kirpa is enough to wash all one´s sins.

If He wants, He can clean each and every soul from all thier dirt, just with His one wish, in a second so to say.

Let´s go the other way, and still one will reach the same conclusion. If it could take Him several lifetimes to wash one´s sins, then what guarantee is there that we will not engage anymore in "karam", for human beings are weak by nature....

Brother do not compare Him to any other being, be it man, devtay , gods, or godesses, He is all powerful, and His power is none other, than His bakshish and  His pyaar.

When a dirty cloth is given to a washerman, he will wash it clean at once, rather than saying, I wil wash it a bit everyday.

So is Sachay Patshah, submit yourself to His Hukum, and He will wash you that much, and make you so pure pavter,that you will not be born anymore, moreover, He will merge you in Him.

Such is His beant wadeayee.

Any doubt still left OneBeing, regarding His power? Or about His omnisciense?

God bless you.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

 

[Guest]

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[harsharan000]

On 15/8/2017 at 10:40 PM, OneBeing said:

That is true, but it'll take lifetimes for a great sinners sins to be washed away and fogiven.

 

ਕੋਟਿ ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰੇ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਾਰ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਰੇ ॥

Kott Pathith Oudhhaarae Khin Mehi Karathae Baar N Laagai Rae ||

The Creator emancipates millions of sinners in an instant, without a moment's delay.

 

*Above is a Sat Bachan of Dhan Dhan Satguru Arjun Dev Maharaj, where He clearly  states, that it takes not more than a moment to Wahiguru, in washing the sins of not one sinner, but even millions of them and all together, thus emancipating them.

The key here is to please Wahiguru through love and bhakti, and submit oneself fearlessly to His Mauj, that´s it, nothing more needed.

Rest is all His kirpa.

No amount of any efforts of ours can ever  clear our sins, we only need a spark of His Daya Meher to clear all our uncountable sins/karmas, that also not in several births as many may think, but in an instant, just as Guru Jee tells us above.

Sat Sree Akal.

[Guest]

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