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Gurbani on meat


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Guest Tejinder Singh
On 2017-08-06 at 11:47 PM, Preeet said:

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh, ji

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish(ਮਾਛੁਲੀ) and wine -
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

Gurbani from a brahmgyani. Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh

This has to be taken in context. It's not talking about food as in sustenence but instead of useless rituals. Single tuks can't be taken out of context of the shabad and used standalone to push ones point. It's not talking about meat eating. 

Its known some Brahmins especially of Bengali background used used to consume fish. In fact they never considered It as non veg. However they did refrain from onion and garlic (for different reason). The fish they did eat, always came as part of a ritual. (Not any more but historically). This is the big clue. Marijuana and alcohol we also know were consumed as parts of rituals. Very next part makes it clear no matter what fasts or rituals or pilgrimages they (Brahmins) perform they will go to hell (for a Sikh hell is separation from Akal Purakh). So it's saying simply that these things (useless rituals) performed for hopes of spiritual advancement won't bring these Brahmins closer to God. 

This tuk I see all the time misused to say meat is not allowed. It needs to be understood in historical and metaphorical context. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 7:43 AM, Guest Tejinder Singh said:

Panj Pyaras told us when we took Amrit that meat is personal choice and that Gurbani says he is a hypocrite who thinks refraining from meat makes him holy or closer to God. "Who is to say what is meat and what is green vegetables, and what leads to sin?" It goes on to call those who avoid meat as a means to attain God are hypocrites.  "those who avoid eating meat devour men at night" and there is comparison to sugar cane and the pain it goes through when it is crushed for our taste.

Fact: plants feel pain and try to avoid it. Fact: no matter how hard you try to eat only vegetables, you will inevitably eat thousands of insects in your lifetime which live in those vegetables and can't be seen. There is countless life in water in form of microbes. And Gurbani even discusses this as well. Avoiding life when eating is impossible. 

And those who are biggest voices against meat for Sikhs will still say milk is ok. But dairy industry kills millions of baby cows that milk was meant for. Usually the males. Because except for a very few which are used for breeding rest are useless for the industry and a burden financially. They usually end up as veal. So to say meat is wrong but dairy is ok also makes one a hypocrite. 

The reason halal and kosher are huge sin is the inherent suffering of keeping an animal fully conscious while in pain from the wound, and slowly bleeding it to death. A quick kill as jatka is humane. The animal loses consciousness and dies instantly when spinal cord is severed. 

So if you eat meat it is your personal choice. Its not against Rehet Maryada and not against Gurbani. (The few verses which mention fish and hell need to be taken in context as metaphors. Otherwise we have contradiction in Gurbani which can't happen.) but if you choose to eat meat, make sure the animal has not suffered for your taste. 

All in all our diet should be simple and for sustenance only. If you require meat for protein and strength then make sure non animal suffers for it and even then keep to a minimum maybe once a week and rest eat veg. But as for being 'against sikhi' no it's not. 

 

Clearly we have taken amrit from diff places then! 

I wonder what the 4th bujjer kurahat is according to your type of amrit. 

Inevitably eating an insect is a bhul. Its an accident. It can be forgiven. Theres a diff in eating a cucumber and chopping off a dogs head and eating it. 

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On 06/08/2017 at 8:45 AM, Guest REAL SIKH said:

My god!!...It shocks me how misonformed the people are today. Killing ANY ANIMAL with INDRIES is WRONG WRONG WRONG..... ALL THESE NUHANGS TALK A LOAD OF CODSWALLOP..  RUBBISH

Make your mind up bucks fizz!... you seem as confused as the person asking question..

Guru Granth Sahib DOES NOT SAY THIS.

THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD QUOTE is from Guru Nanak ji's visit to Kurukshetra. The Fools who wrangle over flesh, the maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai. 

The foolish meat eating sikhs obviously don't knwo anything about meditation. FACT-The one's who meditate and have got Naam>can hear SHABAD>> KNOW FOR SURE THAT KILLING ANY JANWAR WITH GYAN AND KARAM INDRIES IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. Breaking your pineapples, fruits and veg from plants is NOT killing species with INDRIES.

 

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE PEOPLE.

YES DUDE, you got this partly right, BUT ANYTHING THAT IS TAMOGESIC, OR FROM TAMOGUN MAYA WILL HAVE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SPIRITUALITY..WHY DO YOU THINK THAT GARLIC ISN'T USED IN GURDWARA??

Read Suraj Prakash Granth you numbskull, there's massive amounts of evidence of Sikhs eating meat in the past, right from Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, But I see, those Sikhs clearly didn't understand Sikhi, the true teaching of Sikhi started around 10 years ago . I'm not the one confused here, Plants and vegetation also feel pain, that's a scientific fact. They're also life so eating them is the same as eating an animal. The quote you posted proves my point to the dot, the fact you didn't bother reading the next portions is proof of that. 

ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥ ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ 
 

That entire solok is about Pandits that preached Vegetarianism as they said it was spiritually superior and that meat eaters were evil beings, Guru Sahib openly calls them hypocrites. Sound familiar? I should hope so.

 

Interesting how you insulted an entire group of Sikhs purely based on the fact they eat meat, really you're seriously showing us how much in line your thinking is with the Pandits from back then. I wonder how you would fair saying that to their face? not very well would you?

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11 hours ago, Guest Singh said:

Plants may feel pain but dont have souls like animals. We could be eating our relatives or someone elses relatives fron the past life or present life

Actually, not just plants and trees but also rocks, mountains and everything! Don't need to say more, just read. 

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ 
Ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī mėhlā 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ 
Ka▫ī janam bẖa▫e kīt paṯangā.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ 
कई जनम गज मीन कुरंगा ॥
Ka▫ī janam gaj mīn kurangā.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ 
Ka▫ī janam pankẖī sarap ho▫i▫o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
Ka▫ī janam haivar barikẖ jo▫i▫o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ 
Mil jagḏīs milan kī barī▫ā.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ 
Cẖirankāl ih ḏeh sanjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ 
Ka▫ī janam sail gir kari▫ā.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ 
Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥.
Ka▫ī janam sākẖ kar upā▫i▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jon bẖarmā▫i▫ā. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ 
Sāḏẖsang bẖa▫i▫o janam parāpaṯ.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ 
Kar sevā bẖaj har har gurmaṯ.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ 
Ŧi▫āg mān jẖūṯẖ abẖimān.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥
Jīvaṯ marėh ḏargėh parvān. ||3||
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ 
Jo kicẖẖ ho▫ā so ṯujẖ ṯe hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.

ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ 
Avar na ḏūjā karṇai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ 
Ŧā milī▫ai jā laihi milā▫e.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥
Kaho Nānak har har guṇ gā▫e. ||4||3||72||
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

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12 hours ago, Guest Singh said:

Plants may feel pain but dont have souls like animals. We could be eating our relatives or someone elses relatives fron the past life or present life

Yes they do have souls, God resides within them as well. IF something is alive, it has a soul.

13 hours ago, JS79 said:

Suraj parkash is not all correct.

of course you would say that. 

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