Guest Singhgh

Gurbani on meat

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I know eating meat and eggs is wrong. In fact no one in the family does and never has. I know gurbani says it is wrong, but I cant find proof anywhere. Can I get help fron sangat to answer those who say guru granth sahib doesnt say eating meat and eggs is not allowed

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Not sure what Gurbani says about eating animal products but if one can live a healthy life without eating meat, eggs or dairy then why not? 

PS: watch What the Health and Earthlings. Massive eye openers!!

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You're free to eat Jhatka meat only as our Sikh ancestors did so, however if you do then you should be practising proper shaster vidya and leading an active life . Guru Granth Sahib Ji says the meat eaters and the vegetarians etc are all hypocrites, eating for pleasure is wrong, eating to keep yourself going is fine. Life resides in everything, saying Vegetarianism is more ethical than Meat Eating is pretty wrong as both contain thousands of alive microbiol and there were documented cases of plants screaming in pain when you pluck them (they have pain receptors). However do be warned that eating meat has an affect on one's spirituality, due to the meat being protein rich and the nutrients that make it up, it can affect your state of mind, thus making it difficult to meditate and such. 

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3 hours ago, Kira said:

You're free to eat Jhatka meat only as our Sikh ancestors did so, however if you do then you should be practising proper shaster vidya and leading an active life 

My god!!...It shocks me how misonformed the people are today. Killing ANY ANIMAL with INDRIES is WRONG WRONG WRONG..... ALL THESE NUHANGS TALK A LOAD OF CODSWALLOP..  RUBBISH

3 hours ago, Kira said:

Guru Granth Sahib Ji says the meat eaters and the vegetarians etc are all hypocrites, eating for pleasure is wrong, eating to keep yourself going is fine.

Make your mind up bucks fizz!... you seem as confused as the person asking question..

Guru Granth Sahib DOES NOT SAY THIS.

THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD QUOTE is from Guru Nanak ji's visit to Kurukshetra. The Fools who wrangle over flesh, the maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai. 

The foolish meat eating sikhs obviously don't knwo anything about meditation. FACT-The one's who meditate and have got Naam>can hear SHABAD>> KNOW FOR SURE THAT KILLING ANY JANWAR WITH GYAN AND KARAM INDRIES IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. Breaking your pineapples, fruits and veg from plants is NOT killing species with INDRIES.

 

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE PEOPLE.

3 hours ago, Kira said:

However do be warned that eating meat has an affect on one's spirituality, due to the meat being protein rich and the nutrients that make it up, it can affect your state of mind, thus making it difficult to meditate and such. 

YES DUDE, you got this partly right, BUT ANYTHING THAT IS TAMOGESIC, OR FROM TAMOGUN MAYA WILL HAVE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SPIRITUALITY..WHY DO YOU THINK THAT GARLIC ISN'T USED IN GURDWARA??

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Only certain jathebandiya promote chatka.

Listen to what guru granth sahib ji say. Ghat ghat rav raheya sabh thayi pooran purakh bidhata. God is in every single heart.

Now i see that as animals have hearts also.

Eh rasna tu anras raach rahi... maharaj says our rasna tongue wants more taste. But later on in the shabad we are told that we will forget all tastes when we turn to maharaj.

Jo sabh meh ek khudai keht ho to kio murgi mare. Why kill birds when gods in everyone? 

Kabeer bhaang maashuli sura paan jo jo prani khahe. You waste everything by having fish etc.

There are many examples in gurbani. Gurbani does not say jhatka an animal and eat it. Panj pyare also list meat as a sin. Panj pyare are a form of maharaj when we take amrit. So lets listen to them. Theres many threads about meat.

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I think eating plants and animals are completely diffrrent. 1 has soul while other does not. We could be eating the flesh of somone we know who passed away.(if they get into reincincarnationo

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You obviously haven't studied Gurbani and Sikh history as there are many ecamples against meat

Sri Raga- Dukh na deh kiseh jee.  Pat syu apneh ghar jayengha 

Don't give pain to living creatures and you will go to heaven with respect 

Edited by singh598
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Farid says rukhee sukhee kaheh keh tanda panee peo

 

Eat simple basic food and drink water, don't look at quality elegant foods

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The Gurus realize that food affects our mind as well as intoxicants

Meat will make you more animalistic making your body enlarge and increasing sex sleep and anger

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Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh, ji

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish(ਮਾਛੁਲੀ) and wine -
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

Gurbani from a brahmgyani. Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh

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On 2017-08-06 at 5:00 PM, JS79 said:

Only certain jathebandiya promote chatka.

Listen to what guru granth sahib ji say. Ghat ghat rav raheya sabh thayi pooran purakh bidhata. God is in every single heart.

Now i see that as animals have hearts also.

Eh rasna tu anras raach rahi... maharaj says our rasna tongue wants more taste. But later on in the shabad we are told that we will forget all tastes when we turn to maharaj.

Jo sabh meh ek khudai keht ho to kio murgi mare. Why kill birds when gods in everyone? 

Kabeer bhaang maashuli sura paan jo jo prani khahe. You waste everything by having fish etc.

There are many examples in gurbani. Gurbani does not say jhatka an animal and eat it. Panj pyare also list meat as a sin. Panj pyare are a form of maharaj when we take amrit. So lets listen to them. Theres many threads about meat.

Panj Pyaras told us when we took Amrit that meat is personal choice and that Gurbani says he is a hypocrite who thinks refraining from meat makes him holy or closer to God. "Who is to say what is meat and what is green vegetables, and what leads to sin?" It goes on to call those who avoid meat as a means to attain God are hypocrites.  "those who avoid eating meat devour men at night" and there is comparison to sugar cane and the pain it goes through when it is crushed for our taste.

Fact: plants feel pain and try to avoid it. Fact: no matter how hard you try to eat only vegetables, you will inevitably eat thousands of insects in your lifetime which live in those vegetables and can't be seen. There is countless life in water in form of microbes. And Gurbani even discusses this as well. Avoiding life when eating is impossible. 

And those who are biggest voices against meat for Sikhs will still say milk is ok. But dairy industry kills millions of baby cows that milk was meant for. Usually the males. Because except for a very few which are used for breeding rest are useless for the industry and a burden financially. They usually end up as veal. So to say meat is wrong but dairy is ok also makes one a hypocrite. 

The reason halal and kosher are huge sin is the inherent suffering of keeping an animal fully conscious while in pain from the wound, and slowly bleeding it to death. A quick kill as jatka is humane. The animal loses consciousness and dies instantly when spinal cord is severed. 

So if you eat meat it is your personal choice. Its not against Rehet Maryada and not against Gurbani. (The few verses which mention fish and hell need to be taken in context as metaphors. Otherwise we have contradiction in Gurbani which can't happen.) but if you choose to eat meat, make sure the animal has not suffered for your taste. 

All in all our diet should be simple and for sustenance only. If you require meat for protein and strength then make sure non animal suffers for it and even then keep to a minimum maybe once a week and rest eat veg. But as for being 'against sikhi' no it's not. 

 

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On 2017-08-06 at 11:47 PM, Preeet said:

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh, ji

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish(ਮਾਛੁਲੀ) and wine -
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

Gurbani from a brahmgyani. Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh

This has to be taken in context. It's not talking about food as in sustenence but instead of useless rituals. Single tuks can't be taken out of context of the shabad and used standalone to push ones point. It's not talking about meat eating. 

Its known some Brahmins especially of Bengali background used used to consume fish. In fact they never considered It as non veg. However they did refrain from onion and garlic (for different reason). The fish they did eat, always came as part of a ritual. (Not any more but historically). This is the big clue. Marijuana and alcohol we also know were consumed as parts of rituals. Very next part makes it clear no matter what fasts or rituals or pilgrimages they (Brahmins) perform they will go to hell (for a Sikh hell is separation from Akal Purakh). So it's saying simply that these things (useless rituals) performed for hopes of spiritual advancement won't bring these Brahmins closer to God. 

This tuk I see all the time misused to say meat is not allowed. It needs to be understood in historical and metaphorical context. 

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On 8/8/2017 at 7:43 AM, Guest Tejinder Singh said:

Panj Pyaras told us when we took Amrit that meat is personal choice and that Gurbani says he is a hypocrite who thinks refraining from meat makes him holy or closer to God. "Who is to say what is meat and what is green vegetables, and what leads to sin?" It goes on to call those who avoid meat as a means to attain God are hypocrites.  "those who avoid eating meat devour men at night" and there is comparison to sugar cane and the pain it goes through when it is crushed for our taste.

Fact: plants feel pain and try to avoid it. Fact: no matter how hard you try to eat only vegetables, you will inevitably eat thousands of insects in your lifetime which live in those vegetables and can't be seen. There is countless life in water in form of microbes. And Gurbani even discusses this as well. Avoiding life when eating is impossible. 

And those who are biggest voices against meat for Sikhs will still say milk is ok. But dairy industry kills millions of baby cows that milk was meant for. Usually the males. Because except for a very few which are used for breeding rest are useless for the industry and a burden financially. They usually end up as veal. So to say meat is wrong but dairy is ok also makes one a hypocrite. 

The reason halal and kosher are huge sin is the inherent suffering of keeping an animal fully conscious while in pain from the wound, and slowly bleeding it to death. A quick kill as jatka is humane. The animal loses consciousness and dies instantly when spinal cord is severed. 

So if you eat meat it is your personal choice. Its not against Rehet Maryada and not against Gurbani. (The few verses which mention fish and hell need to be taken in context as metaphors. Otherwise we have contradiction in Gurbani which can't happen.) but if you choose to eat meat, make sure the animal has not suffered for your taste. 

All in all our diet should be simple and for sustenance only. If you require meat for protein and strength then make sure non animal suffers for it and even then keep to a minimum maybe once a week and rest eat veg. But as for being 'against sikhi' no it's not. 

 

Clearly we have taken amrit from diff places then! 

I wonder what the 4th bujjer kurahat is according to your type of amrit. 

Inevitably eating an insect is a bhul. Its an accident. It can be forgiven. Theres a diff in eating a cucumber and chopping off a dogs head and eating it. 

Edited by JS79
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On 06/08/2017 at 8:45 AM, Guest REAL SIKH said:

My god!!...It shocks me how misonformed the people are today. Killing ANY ANIMAL with INDRIES is WRONG WRONG WRONG..... ALL THESE NUHANGS TALK A LOAD OF CODSWALLOP..  RUBBISH

Make your mind up bucks fizz!... you seem as confused as the person asking question..

Guru Granth Sahib DOES NOT SAY THIS.

THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD QUOTE is from Guru Nanak ji's visit to Kurukshetra. The Fools who wrangle over flesh, the maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai. 

The foolish meat eating sikhs obviously don't knwo anything about meditation. FACT-The one's who meditate and have got Naam>can hear SHABAD>> KNOW FOR SURE THAT KILLING ANY JANWAR WITH GYAN AND KARAM INDRIES IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. Breaking your pineapples, fruits and veg from plants is NOT killing species with INDRIES.

 

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE PEOPLE.

YES DUDE, you got this partly right, BUT ANYTHING THAT IS TAMOGESIC, OR FROM TAMOGUN MAYA WILL HAVE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON SPIRITUALITY..WHY DO YOU THINK THAT GARLIC ISN'T USED IN GURDWARA??

Read Suraj Prakash Granth you numbskull, there's massive amounts of evidence of Sikhs eating meat in the past, right from Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, But I see, those Sikhs clearly didn't understand Sikhi, the true teaching of Sikhi started around 10 years ago . I'm not the one confused here, Plants and vegetation also feel pain, that's a scientific fact. They're also life so eating them is the same as eating an animal. The quote you posted proves my point to the dot, the fact you didn't bother reading the next portions is proof of that. 

ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥ ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ 
 

That entire solok is about Pandits that preached Vegetarianism as they said it was spiritually superior and that meat eaters were evil beings, Guru Sahib openly calls them hypocrites. Sound familiar? I should hope so.

 

Interesting how you insulted an entire group of Sikhs purely based on the fact they eat meat, really you're seriously showing us how much in line your thinking is with the Pandits from back then. I wonder how you would fair saying that to their face? not very well would you?

Edited by Kira
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3 hours ago, Kira said:

Read Suraj Prakash Granth you numbskull?

Suraj parkash is not all correct.

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Plants may feel pain but dont have souls like animals. We could be eating our relatives or someone elses relatives fron the past life or present life

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11 hours ago, Guest Singh said:

Plants may feel pain but dont have souls like animals. We could be eating our relatives or someone elses relatives fron the past life or present life

Actually, not just plants and trees but also rocks, mountains and everything! Don't need to say more, just read. 

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ 
Ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī mėhlā 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ 
Ka▫ī janam bẖa▫e kīt paṯangā.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ 
कई जनम गज मीन कुरंगा ॥
Ka▫ī janam gaj mīn kurangā.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ 
Ka▫ī janam pankẖī sarap ho▫i▫o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥
Ka▫ī janam haivar barikẖ jo▫i▫o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ 
Mil jagḏīs milan kī barī▫ā.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ 
Cẖirankāl ih ḏeh sanjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ 
Ka▫ī janam sail gir kari▫ā.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ 
Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥.
Ka▫ī janam sākẖ kar upā▫i▫ā.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jon bẖarmā▫i▫ā. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ 
Sāḏẖsang bẖa▫i▫o janam parāpaṯ.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ 
Kar sevā bẖaj har har gurmaṯ.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ 
Ŧi▫āg mān jẖūṯẖ abẖimān.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥
Jīvaṯ marėh ḏargėh parvān. ||3||
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ 
Jo kicẖẖ ho▫ā so ṯujẖ ṯe hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.

ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ 
Avar na ḏūjā karṇai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ 
Ŧā milī▫ai jā laihi milā▫e.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥
Kaho Nānak har har guṇ gā▫e. ||4||3||72||
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

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12 hours ago, Guest Singh said:

Plants may feel pain but dont have souls like animals. We could be eating our relatives or someone elses relatives fron the past life or present life

Yes they do have souls, God resides within them as well. IF something is alive, it has a soul.

13 hours ago, JS79 said:

Suraj parkash is not all correct.

of course you would say that. 

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

Yes they do have souls, God resides within them as well. IF something is alive, it has a soul.

of course you would say that. 

Js79 is a beetch !

Edited by Destruction

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

Yes they do have souls, God resides within them as well. IF something is alive, it has a soul.

of course you would say that. 

And of course you would believe anything that gives you approval to eat meat. Suraj parkash is not dhur ki bani therefore it can have mistakes and milaavat. 

2 minutes ago, Destruction said:

Js79 is a beetch !

When people have no logic or people skills they just become hot headed and foul mouthed like you. You dont have the ability to listen to views. You have absolutely no intelligent input. 

Wash your mouth destruction. 

I bet you are now going to come up with some new sakhi as to why we should swear as sikhs and use any example on the planet to justify it like 'Dhumma swears and hes our god so we as his pets must follow in his footsteps and teach his wisdom on swearing'.

 

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6 minutes ago, JS79 said:

And of course you would believe anything that gives you approval to eat meat. Suraj parkash is not dhur ki bani therefore it can have mistakes and milaavat. 

 

I'm a vegetarian so cry all you want that I eat meat. I posted Gurbani that said hypocrisy is what's wrong, The fact that you're throwing history out the books is a sheer testament to how far you'll go to simply re-write things you don't like. I bet Suraj Prakash Granth is alright to do Sakhis from but once it disagrees with you then its suddenly all false. What a joke. The fact that Sikhs consuming meat is mentioned all throughout it is a sign it was written by Kavi Ji and not any form of foreign influence. Kavi Ji spent 40 years researching and compiling it. Feel free to post other historical records of where Sikhs are told "nah don't eat meat" 

 

You already threw Dasam Bani out the window, Why would Kavi Ji's work be any different.

Edited by Kira

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1 minute ago, Kira said:

I'm a vegetarian so cry all you want that I eat meat. I posted Gurbani that said hypocrisy is what's wrong, The fact that you're throwing history out the books is a sheer testament to how far you'll go to simply re-write things you don't like. I bet Suraj Prakash Granth is alright to do Sakhis from but once it disagrees with you then its suddenly all false. What a joke. The fact that Sikhs consuming meat is mentioned all throughout it is a sign it was written by Kavi Ji and not any form of foreign influence. Kavi Ji spent 40 years researching and compiling it. Feel free to post other historical records of where Sikhs are told "nah don't eat meat" 

No. If it disagrees with gurbani i will condemn it. Simple. 

Errr i think destructions the one crying ji. 

 

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8 minutes ago, JS79 said:

No. If it disagrees with gurbani i will condemn it. Simple. 

Errr i think destructions the one crying ji. 

 

It doesn't disagree with Gurbani, you haven't even read the Granth yet you're throwing shade at a Historian twice the Sikh you and I are. Guru Sahib spoke against hypocrisy but all you've done is shown you're just as hypocritical as the meat eaters you condemn. 

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35 minutes ago, Kira said:

It doesn't disagree with Gurbani, you haven't even read the Granth yet you're throwing shade at a Historian twice the Sikh you and I are. Guru Sahib spoke against hypocrisy but all you've done is shown you're just as hypocritical as the meat eaters you condemn. 

So we should believe suraj parkash word for word?

For eg take the story about guru ji doing sewa for 12 years. And suraj parkash says (and taksalis believe) that after 12 yrs guru ji had keere in their sees because of the 12 saropas.. How can we as gurujis sikhs ever believe this. Nobody says we cant question or ask such stories. 

Added:

Okay. There was me trying to be civil. And polite.

I have explained my view on dasam granth. Ill explain further. I do not do 3 banis. I read chandi di // i read jaap sahib  etc and fully believe its maharajs bani. 

I have stated i do not believe ALL of dasam granth as it is  not all maharajs bani. Okay? 

Go on call me a missionary rss athiest muslim hindu jewish devil etc. 

Yawwwwwwn

 

Edited by JS79
Added because he added
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46 minutes ago, JS79 said:

So we should believe suraj parkash word for word?

For eg take the story about guru ji doing sewa for 12 years. And suraj parkash says (and taksalis believe) that after 12 yrs guru ji had keere in their sees because of the 12 saropas.. How can we as gurujis sikhs ever believe this. Nobody says we cant question or ask such stories. 

Added:

Okay. There was me trying to be civil. And polite.

I have explained my view on dasam granth. Ill explain further. I do not do 3 banis. I read chandi di // i read jaap sahib  etc and fully believe its maharajs bani. 

I have stated i do not believe ALL of dasam granth as it is  not all maharajs bani. Okay? 

Go on call me a missionary rss athiest muslim hindu jewish devil etc. 

Yawwwwwwn

 

Please post the the story directly from Suraj Prakash Granth pls, the Granth is about 50,000 stanzas in length. MIracles were known to take place near Guru Sahib, all the time in fact. Will you now say that Baba Deep Singh Ji didn't fight without a head? that's all just fiction? 

Feel free to continue doing Nindya of it all, you consider yourself above Mata Sundri and Bhai Mani Singh Ji, both of whom were more intimate with Guru Sahib than you can ever hope to be, they complied the Granth so feel free to call them wrong. The fact that you doubt things that don't go up to your standard is all the answer anyone needs regarding your own character. 

 

Please provide records from Sikh history books predating Suraj Prakash Granth. History was meticulously kept in tact by Sikhs, this shouldn't be a hard job for you.

Edited by Kira

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