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Is being gay wrong in sikhi

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41 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Why do you think they are unintelligent idiots in relation to the topic at hand then? 

If you need to ask that question then you really need to take a good looking around. Look at this topic and the posts and then look at the rampant display of anti-gay harassment that goes on if anyone even attempts to come out.  

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1 hour ago, JUSTAJATT said:

you need to just go and top yourself, because your a human of the lowest order.. Don't tell me to go and F@@k myself, because i'll smack your bony a$$ to the floor and leave you crying. 

Good luck and fitteh teri dingaling deh,   Dirty man is you because I couldn;t even turm my back to you if we in same room u son of a b@tch

+1 I didn't notice this earlier, but we shouldn't be soft on issues like this. Even though Homosexuality is a threat to the great Sikh teachings, do we really need to treat them that way. Homosexuals by nature hate the Panth as you can see from @AjeetSinghPunjabi irresponsible behavoir. But the way I see it you aren't really much more respectful.

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33 minutes ago, Kira said:

If you need to ask that question then you really need to take a good looking around. Look at this topic and the posts and then look at the rampant display of anti-gay harassment that goes on if anyone even attempts to come out.  

They should understand what community they come from, what faith they come from, as well as what world they come from. Those being gays shouldn't be coming-out of the closet as all, it will only cause distress to their parents and their loved ones. What good can come out of confessing to such a thing?

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Geezer, there ain't no need for this kind of talk. 

sorry dude, i had to use that tone in reply to the filth he wrote towards me in an earlierr post that you probably missed.

His earlier post was>>>>>>>>>>>>

4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

JUSTAJATTKHAN , you cracked me up at Adam and Eve. 

Honestly, if you wanna pretend to be follower of an abrahamic cult, go the whole hog and convert to islam . 

Then you have a complete license to hate/kill gays. If you're lucky , you can travel to ISIS and toss gays from building tops. 

You pretend to "know-all" . How do you know its only male and female in god's creation ? Where would you put khusre (not gays)  then ? what about asexuals and hermaphrodites ? many species of the world don't even have a gender or can switch genders as per circumstances . 

You're just a prick who has neither understanding of gurbani nor basic etiquette. 

You're the same guy who has food stuck in his bushy mustache and lassi , and then does "burraah" after he's done eating .:rofl Dirty man 

and then he rants>>

4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

So, in your opinion what should gays do ? practice celibacy all their life. You think its easy ?

I am sure your grandparents said same crrap about your generation the same way you say about millenials ! 

Just because homos make u uncomfortable is no reason to deny them their rights or dignity . Go f**k urself dude. 

Its with every generation gap. nothing new 

you see what you probably skimmed past?????

I mean this kind of guy needs a proper beating. I've repeatedly told him that sikhi is about being GOD-orientated, however, he just wants to justify and blend his twisted sexual orientation>>>>>and frankly, I've had enuff of this rubbish and am not standing for no more. 

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

If you need to ask that question then you really need to take a good looking around. Look at this topic and the posts and then look at the rampant display of anti-gay harassment that goes on if anyone even attempts to come out.  

Unless we express our repulsion towards this rebarbative trend it will never get nipped in the bud, particularly in the sikh community. They think it is very trendy or westernized to become gay. If they are not gay they are not westernized enough. Lots of these young men find western men very attractive because they watch them in porns. They blindly imitate every single trend that originates from the west even if it does not agree with their culture or religion or family background.  They watch too much pornography together with immoral bollywood trash. They have lost their values which have basis in sikhi. They prefer gand above everything opposite of gand. Moreover, how can anyone expect these men to like women when their culture prefers to have boys all the time  Giving birth to girls is considered an evil sin. They grow up watching their sisters are not treated nicely just because they are girls. How can anyone in their right minds expect these boys to grow up and have a liking for girls when they have grown up learning how to hate them by their parents or relatives?

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

So should we expect gays in our society to continue in that vein? I know some apnay (who are married with kids) are undercover gandus too - or at least don't mind indulging when an opportunity arises. That's despite the 'respectable' family facade. 

Should it be a case of 'pursue your own proclivities in your own time', in the meanwhile carry on with the facade like you are a respectable heterosexual member of society?

They probably married because of pressure from their <banned word filter activated> parents who were probably gundus, preferring boys over girls, themselves. Why do they have to get married if they know they are homosexuals. Two men can't produce a family naturally, what's the point of getting married if they are gay? They should not get married at all because even if they adopt children as a married couple what kind of example will they be setting to those children? How will they tell friends they have two men as parents and don't know which one is a mummy or their daddy? They will be preparing a next generation of gays by normalising their gayness and gay marriage with their example. They will be playing mummies and daddies and confusing their adopted children. People need to come out in the open and tell everyone they are gay and never get married.

For sex, they should lead celibate lives. If you come from a family background where girls were always seen as a unnecessary burden, ignored, neglected or put down because they of their gender all the time then no one can expect boys to grow up and have a high esteem for women. They will turn to their own gender for gratification and company.

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Looks like homophobes who are full of hatred and ignorance are bigger threat than gays lol.

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Here are some Facts

1. There is nothing against being gay as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

2. Waheguru loves all of us, but not equally. 

3. Those that remember and chant His name get to sit closer to Him. 

4. The three pillars of Sikhi are naam japna, kirat karni, vand shakna i.e. NECESSARY for growth. 

5. The Lavaan are non-gender specific

Now here are some facts mixed with my opinion

Heterosexual couples can reproduce. This can count towards seva. One of the greatest seva one can do is bringing another soul into the path of Truth, of Gursikhi. Homosexual couples cannot reproduce. Both homosexual and heterosexual can adopt. 

 Whether you adopt or give birth to a family; if at the end of the day, your child is deluded in Maya, then you have failed your duty as a parent, and the Sikh duty/ seva to further our PANTH. 

Those 'sikh' weddings with people having an anand karaj and drinking the same night and then having kids which are 'agnostic' or 'sikh-but-don't-read-any-gurbani' aren't doing the panth much favours either. 

If there was a Gursikh homosexual couple that woke up every morning to remember Waheguru, adopted children and (tried to their best) to instil these teachings, do seva, further the panthic.... I hope I am not being blasphemous here, but the workings of the family seem much the same to a heterosexual Gursikh couple, only difference is the method in which they show physical love towards each other. 

 

It is hard to define what is Kaam; what is too little, too much?

It's easier to think of e.g. anger. Avoid it, but at the right time, use it. Same with greed, attachment, ego. There are instances in life we have to use these for our advantage. But it's such a fine line (like a silver hair). For that, I can only try to understand myself, I am in no place to dictate for others. 

Can't exactly say if it's only sex 1/ week then it's aight but any more than that it's kaam lol. For some that 1/ week may be super lustful. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, JUSTAJATT said:

sorry dude, i had to use that tone in reply to the filth he wrote towards me in an earlierr post that you probably missed.

His earlier post was>>>>>>>>>>>>

and then he rants>>

you see what you probably skimmed past?????

I mean this kind of guy needs a proper beating. I've repeatedly told him that sikhi is about being GOD-orientated, however, he just wants to justify and blend his twisted sexual orientation>>>>>and frankly, I've had enuff of this rubbish and am not standing for no more. 

Because he is looking for  someone on this forum who might give him one. He is advertising himself for wanna be gays. He also knows there are many undercover gundus on this forum and he ain't the only one, so he is playing innocent.

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On 06/08/2017 at 11:31 AM, JUSTAJATT said:

Being gay is NOT about sikhi.

Being Gay has NOTHING to do with Sikhi,,>>so why does the op keep bringing it in and asking for sympathy??

 

you gotta stop tampering and diluting sikhi to fit your own twisted agenda.  

 

SIKHI IS ABOUT YOUR ORIENTATION TOWARDS GOD.

IT IS NOT ABOUT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION,,, SO JUST PACK IT IN AND STOP BRINGING UP THE SAME FILTH AGAIN AND AGAIN.

 

BTW. Being Gay should NOT be allowed in society..>>full stop.

We have messed up the world and it's play by being leneient and accepting all these divides. the divides just divide further and can never merge towards ONE. so in the light of spirituality>> you are walking AWAY from what is sacred and divine the more you divide.

today we shall accept gay people as norm,,, then gay marriage, then gay anand karaj,. then it will go to paedophiles and other fetish fangs saying that they have a medical problem,, they're born that way,,, we being unfair and predjudice,,blah blah>>>blaaah.. then the paedos will want sympathy and wanna be accepted as norm just like all the pufters currently are.... you guys are just killing and destroying the play of God.

SHAME ON YOU ALL

Douche 

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On 06/08/2017 at 1:01 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

people didn't always talk openly about sex back then, in fact, only until the British came did Sikhs have western perspective of sex. In the past nobody debated it like you are doing now.

Erm... How do you know this to be true? India is the land karma sutra many would say that it was victorian puritanism that led to the discussion of sex to become proscribed 

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Don't think we realise how many gay/bisexual Sikh turban wearing men there are. I know if a few jatt tarkhan even khatri turban gay Sikhs who are obviously not out but do this undercover. Then there's that feminine namdhari gay. There are loads and I bet they feel they are stuck with no voice as their family will disown them and lose their friends. Quite tragic 

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17 hours ago, Destruction said:

Don't think we realise how many gay/bisexual Sikh turban wearing men there are. I know if a few jatt tarkhan even khatri turban gay Sikhs who are obviously not out but do this undercover. Then there's that feminine namdhari gay. There are loads and I bet they feel they are stuck with no voice as their family will disown them and lose their friends. Quite tragic 

Yup, there's lots of gay guys in Punjabi culture , just like any other culture.

I can bet my head on the fact that even in darbar of Guru Gobind Singh ji , there must have been atleast a few gays. But they wouldn't be seen as "gay" , rather as "single-for-life man in service of guru" or something along those lines. 

There must have been gays in companies of all 10 gurus.

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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On 08/08/2017 at 10:31 AM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Douche 

True , he is ! 

I have purposely not answered his rant. He thinks he's some kind of "know it all", giving me citations of "yin-yang" , "north-south"  etc but the fool doesn't understand human sexuality is not in white and black. 

Waheguru is infinite , then so must his creation be. Look through the telescope or through microscope, and there's no end to his wonders, no matter whichever way you look at it. 

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On 07/08/2017 at 0:17 AM, dallysingh101 said:

I think we're all a bit confused at the pace of things these days. 

You got blokes who are blokes one day, and then 'women' the next. The gender thing has become so fluid, and so darn quickly too. Some of us who remember a time when such things didn't happen (which wasn't long ago at all), still get a bit shocked. 

The greatest point is that all manner of things are being normalised without any discussion and then we are left to 'catch up' so to speak. And anyone who is shocked at anything is deemed regressive. It's social engineering at its finest.

 

Goes on to prove even more how unread you're on this topic.

Nothing happened overnight or even in 10-20-30 yrs. 

The word "uranian" (which means third-gender) was coined back in the 1825 by Karl Heinrich Ulrichs who used to study homosexuality. Then later we also had sigmund frued who had his own theories on why some people are gay. I am sure philosophers, psychologists , doctors and psychiatrist have studied homosexual behavior even way way before that, albeit undocumented.

Then we had nazis in 1940s torturing gay men by stripping them naked and leaving them outside in snow cold during winter. Nazi soldiers loved torturing to death gay men by putting a bucket on their head, stripping them and unleashing wild german shephards on them, who bit into them until they died a painful and humiliating death. Then we were put into gas chambers en-masse , just like jews. All sorts of medical experiments were done on homos because we were considered just like rats that can be tested upon. But we weren't considered human enough to be even mentioned as "victims of genocide in germany" by the german govt who didn't recognize homosexual genocide until 90s. 

Then we had the whole stonewall incident in 1969 in US . TBH, the stonewall riot was a tipping point against police brutality when the queens put up their hands and said "enough of it", enough of intimidation, sexual assaults, rapes, murders, not just by civilians but by police too.

When gay men started dying due to unknown virus (later known as HIV) in the 80s , no docs cared, after all society was being cleared of "dirty homosexuals". It was only when straight people started getting infected and dying, we got seriousness from US govt and medical authorities.

Then the gays had to struggle a lot in the 70s , 80s and 90s , risking their lives, for sake of getting rights legally. It wasn't until 2003 that their decades-old self-less efforts paid back when US supreme court decriminalized homosexuality. 

It took them another decade to lobby the democrats to support gay rights and marriage.

If gays today are cutting wedding cakes and marrying, its not happened overnight. And my people were certainly not given that on a silver platter. We had to go against the tide and fight really hard to get what we secured so far because Waheguru was with us  , and still we have a long long way to go. 

Now compare that to straight men who has always has his rights given to him on a golden platter and put on pedestal just coz he's a d**k between his legs and feels desirous for women .

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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Truth is (when I think about it) is that I haven't got an issue with homosexuality, transgenderism etc. etc.  To me it's like moorings and standards of another culture (which they have full prerogative to set), but when these other cultures norms are now being encouraged within our own society - directly as the result of outside influence - I think it is perfectly right (and not to mention smart) to put the brakes on things and have a very careful think about things from our own panth's perspective. 

Nope totally wrong yet again ! 

Being gay is not about this culture or that culture. Gays cut across all cultures, races , nationalities and religions. Assume 1% of any population is gay . You think there were no gays in vaisakhi of 1699, or in darbar of Guru Gobind Singhji sometimes, or a gay or lesbian ever met Guru Nanak ? But in sikhi all these things are inconsequential. 

As Hillary Clinton so beautifully quoted 

"Gay people are born and belong to every society in the world. They are all ages, all races, all faiths. They are doctors and teachers, farmers and bankers, soldiers and athletes. And whether we know it, or whether we acknowledge it, they are our family, our friends, and our neighbors.
Being gay is not a western invention. It is a human reality"

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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On 06/08/2017 at 7:21 PM, JUSTAJATT said:

just get the hell outa here you poofta

God damned lgbt,>>they've even knicked God's holy rainbow to represent themselves..  

My jatt factor has nothing to do with your sex-fetish. you might as well stick your dingaling in  a dog and you probably already do the way>> you try to justify men-women having anal.

If you were stood right here and said that to me>>> i'd slap your boney A$$$ to the floor. How dare you tell me and my kaurs that it's okay doing anal.  .. You spent your whole life watching porn like all u pervs from india do.

 

LOL ! :rofl 

 

On 06/08/2017 at 10:59 PM, Kira said:

This is why South Asian communities as a whole are the most unintelligent idiots I've come across in this modern day, saying this while I am one. No wonder so many youth turn their backs on Sikhi.

I think sikhi is an amazing religion full or rich philosophy and history, a complete lifestyle that one has to completely dedicate itself to before one can expect anything. But unfortunately we as sikh community are quite passive in propagating it to non-sikhs.

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1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

 

1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I think sikhi is an amazing religion full or rich philosophy and history, a complete lifestyle that one has to completely dedicate itself to before one can expect anything. But unfortunately we as sikh community are quite passive in propagating it to non-sikhs.

The even more unfortunate thing is that we ourselves are not too keen in finding out, studying and practising our own religion. It is like we are ashamed of our heritage and our customs. We don't like our own culture and are aiming to blend into the western way of life. 

Look at the clothes we are aiming to speak, our language, our ideas, our foods, our lifestyles..... one honest question ... are they desi or western inspired? Finally look at the names of most of our youngsters... are they traditional? What books do we read? What are our goals in life? what language do we study? What have we been teaching our children in the past year? What films do we watch? 

What do we discuss with out friends? How many elders do we approach to ask them about their lifestyle and their views and the type of life they lead before the invention of our great computer age?

If we ourselves had half the faith in our own religion, then we would already be having a good knowledge of it, and would not be ashamed of talking about it, discussing about it, finding out more and finally practising it. We would be more enthusiastic and not full of doubts at every stage - asking questions if what we are doing is right or not. 

 

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5 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

There must have been gays in companies of all 10 gurus.

The oldest example of where I can get an example of what happens to gays is in the Bible. I do not intend it to be offensive or discriminatory, however it is just for the purpose of knowledge. The following link describes what God actually wants. 

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19

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1 hour ago, sikhni777 said:

The even more unfortunate thing is that we ourselves are not too keen in finding out, studying and practising our own religion. It is like we are ashamed of our heritage and our customs. We don't like our own culture and are aiming to blend into the western way of life. 

Look at the clothes we are aiming to speak, our language, our ideas, our foods, our lifestyles..... one honest question ... are they desi or western inspired? Finally look at the names of most of our youngsters... are they traditional? What books do we read? What are our goals in life? what language do we study? What have we been teaching our children in the past year? What films do we watch? 

What do we discuss with out friends? How many elders do we approach to ask them about their lifestyle and their views and the type of life they lead before the invention of our great computer age?

If we ourselves had half the faith in our own religion, then we would already be having a good knowledge of it, and would not be ashamed of talking about it, discussing about it, finding out more and finally practising it. We would be more enthusiastic and not full of doubts at every stage - asking questions if what we are doing is right or not. 

These are all brilliant questions and statements we should be analysing.

As a people, truly what and who are we? What do we practically and realistically offer the world aside from some well-meaning platitudes that rarely escape the territory of promise and idealism? Are we simply a nomadic group of immigrants who will move to wherever there's an opportunity to make as much money as possible? Why are we incapable of enacting true change for the land from where most of us originate? Do we engage with the world and the people around on us? Do we truly think and function on a level that goes beyond the daily superficial grind? 

We demand and expect the best yet we are terrified of deviating from the norm to achieve those ends. Change does not come from following formula. It requires the creation of waves. Yet we only seem to rebel in a direction that spells self-destruction (and most of such rebelliousness is an imitation of other groups and cultures); rarely, if ever, are our rebellious acts virtuous and beneficial to our people as a whole.

We lack originality in thought, in act, and in spirit. There is a deep and innate desire within us to be led; some of us gravitate towards so-called religious figures to give us the answers we are too lazy and ineffectual to seek ourselves, whilst others among us take our cues from the vast sea of degenerate popular culture or other people in our families and social groups, or a combination of the two. 

When have any of us ever spoken to a fellow Sikh or Punjabi, and gone away with a sense of serene satisfaction knowing that you've just partaken in an sensible, far-reaching, and generally wise exchange? Not pretentious or dare I say even intelligent, but something serene and wise. It's just all complete shallowness and an absolute lack of insight. Even most of the religious and spiritual individuals play at fulfilling those roles, for the benefit of a watching public and peers, rather than living that goodness without the desire for recognition and reward. 

Are we dead from within? Or are we still in the process of decay?

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4 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

The oldest example of where I can get an example of what happens to gays is in the Bible. I do not intend it to be offensive or discriminatory, however it is just for the purpose of knowledge. The following link describes what God actually wants. 

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19

Nah a followers of Mian Mir Ji was gay, If I remember right there was a Sufi Pir who was gay, he met Guru Arjun Dev Ji (cant verify this as I read this a while back) but i'll look it up.

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