Guest followthelight

Amritvela with a roommate not wanting to inconvenience

116 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Out of curiousity,  are you one of those ppl that believe sikh means learner, so sikhs have no rules or rehits or restriction and only an obligation to go out and learn. Just learn it could be mathematics, poetry, learn pagean rituals, learn life cycle of beetles, just go learn?

Because from ur posts it seems like u believe sikh just means being a nice person.  

 

That's a very curious question..

I have never thought there was any other interpretation or transliteration of to the term 'sikh' other than being a student? 

What do you think the term Sikh means if not student? 

 

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20 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Out of curiousity,  are you one of those ppl that believe sikh means learner, so sikhs have no rules or rehits or restriction and only an obligation to go out and learn. Just learn it could be mathematics, poetry, learn pagean rituals, learn life cycle of beetles, just go learn?

Because from ur posts it seems like u believe sikh just means being a nice person.  

As a 'Sikh' for me I believe I have no 'obligation'  to anyone, nor do I need to follow any rules because someone has told me to.. I know for sure that whilst my 'guru' tells me I should avoid  kaam, krodh, lobh, ahankar, Moh,  they are things within me to conquer.. I am under  no obligation to follow any social construct or 'rules' as you say that are given to me by others. By being a student /learner and seeker of truth these things will fall away. Moreover I would naturally learn to see Sat, daya, nimrata, santokh, and pyaar as being virtuous.. I'm really quite confused as to the nature of your question 

 

Edited by Sukhvirk1976
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5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

As a 'Sikh' for me I believe I have no 'obligation'  to anyone, nor do I need to follow any rules because someone has told me to.. I know for sure that whilst my 'guru' tells me I should avoid  kaam, krodh, lobh, ahankar, Mohammed,  they are things within me to conquer.. I am under  no obligation to follow any social construct or 'rules' as you say that are given to me by others. By being a student /learner and seeker of truth these things will fall away. Moreover I would naturally learn to see Sat, daya, nimrata, santokh, and pyaar as being virtuous.. I'm really quite confused as to the nature of your question 

 

many think Sikh means student as in learner but really means student as in disciple. Two very different connotations. And the meaning we give behind this will impact our Sikhi. When I thought of myself as a learner I was easier on myself in a sense. When I see myself as a disciple I see myself as always trying to leave my ways (manmat) and abide by GuruJis ways (gurmat). Idk. When I only thought of myself as a learner it was more like walking in a field of daisies, appreciating but not fully committing ? Thoughts

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On days you cannot read paat, why not get some headphones and listen to paat instead? That will not disturb your roommate.

I have different playlists setup for myself on Youtube and Music players depending on which shift I am going to at work, or for other circumstances. If you have time, this will give you an opportunity to listen nitnem in proper raag, Baru Sahib Anahad Bani Jatha currently have some nitnem banis sung in raag tanti saaj gurmat sangeet on Youtube.

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On 08/08/2017 at 10:32 AM, Guest Followthelight said:

many think Sikh means student as in learner but really means student as in disciple. Two very different connotations. And the meaning we give behind this will impact our Sikhi. When I thought of myself as a learner I was easier on myself in a sense. When I see myself as a disciple I see myself as always trying to leave my ways (manmat) and abide by GuruJis ways (gurmat). Idk. When I only thought of myself as a learner it was more like walking in a field of daisies, appreciating but not fully committing ? Thoughts

I agree it means disciple.. But it can mean a disciple of knowledge in its widest sense. 

I've always thought it curious that in mool mantar the shabad is gurprasad and not guru prasad ie. Through the grace of knowledge 

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20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I agree it means disciple.. But it can mean a disciple of knowledge in its widest sense. 

I've always thought it curious that in mool mantar the shabad is gurprasad and not guru prasad ie. Through the grace of knowledge 

Through the Grace of the Guru is the correct translation not knowledge. That spelling for Guru was common back then and is used thousands of times in Gurbani.

 

Edited by Kira
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5 minutes ago, Kira said:

Through the Grace of the Guru is the correct translation not knowledge. That spelling for Guru was common back then and is used thousands of times in Gurbani.

 

I'm not convinced by that.. The term guru was widely used and the Guru's were very careful one may say pedantic in articulating themselves 'shudh'. At the very least it is ambiguous covering and including both interpretations? 

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4 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I'm not convinced by that.. The term guru was widely used and the Guru's were very careful one may say pedantic in articulating themselves 'shudh'. At the very least it is ambiguous covering and including both interpretations? 

ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਣਾਗਤਿ ਤੋਰੀ ॥੪॥੨੬॥
 

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਹਾਟੈ ॥ 
 

These are just 2 examples. The word Guru is less frequently used, read the Granth not just the Mool mantar, and read it directly from Gurmukhi. 

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26 minutes ago, Kira said:

ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਣਾਗਤਿ ਤੋਰੀ ॥੪॥੨੬॥
 

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖੁ ਬਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਹਾਟੈ ॥ 
 

These are just 2 examples. The word Guru is less frequently used, read the Granth not just the Mool mantar, and read it directly from Gurmukhi. 

I totally agree with you but I don't think the terms are used interchangeably rather by design? 

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Changed my mind. 

 

Edited by simran345

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Thanks for that.! I think I'm approaching the term from a deeper philosophical position which is inclusive of the interpretation given her.. I think one of the most amazing things about Gurbani is the non-dogmatic nature of it.. 

It's very interesting and I will revisit this video by Nanak naam who I think are excellent in the work they do.. I find I'm much more comfortable with there work than BoS 

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20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I totally agree with you but I don't think the terms are used interchangeably rather by design? 

The Punjabi Language is alot more different than it was in the past Gur (without the Dolenkar or an onkar) is alot more formal while with it, it speaks a-lot more intimately. The codswallop that it means knowledge is completely counter to its actual arth.

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7 minutes ago, Kira said:

The Punjabi Language is alot more different than it was in the past Gur (without the Dolenkar or an onkar) is alot more formal while with it, it speaks a-lot more intimately. The codswallop that it means knowledge is completely counter to its actual arth.

I'm not sure. My own analysis has taken me away from the translation that it means just teacher/master but rather source of knowledge. I agree it is elusive but then so much in bani is.. I suppose necessarily so else it would be easy! 

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3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I'm not sure. My own analysis has taken me away from the translation that it means just teacher/master but rather source of knowledge. I agree it is elusive but then so much in bani is.. I suppose necessarily so else it would be easy! 

Your own analysis is wrong then. Nearly all Brahmgyanis, prachariks and linguistics have all translated it to be "by the Grace of the Guru" Gurbani itself has defined the word. So either you're right or Gurbani is wrong.  Gurbani is extremely straightforward in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the language in it is beautiful but simple. Just read it in Gurmukhi. 

Edited by Kira
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4 minutes ago, Kira said:

Your own analysis is wrong then. Nearly all Brahmgyanis, prachariks and linguistics have all translated it to be "by the Grace of the Guru" Gurbani itself has defined the word. So either you're right or Gurbani is wrong.  Gurbani is extremely straightforward in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the language in it is beautiful but simple. Just read it in Gurmukhi. 

I think personal khoj is very important. It is a must for me to dig deep to research and appreciate all sources of knowledge and exegesis and discount any doubts.. I believe guru ji demands this of me.. 

If you have accepted that interpretation then good for you. You may well be right but I'll need to arrive at that position myself. Even if everyone in the world told me that I was wrong until my own intellect resolved it I would be a coward and a sheep to just agree unless I truly believed it 

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2 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I think personal khoj is very important. It is a must for me to dig deep to research and appreciate all sources of knowledge and exegesis and discount any doubts.. I believe guru ji demands this of me.. 

If you have accepted that interpretation then good for you. You may well be right but I'll need to arrive at that position myself. Even if everyone in the world told me that I was wrong until my own intellect resolved it I would be a coward and a sheep to just agree unless I truly believed it 

That's a tad hypocricital. You want to do Personal research but you haven't bothered learning the actual Gurmukhi script? you claim to want to learn but cant be arsed learning from actual experts in the field. Guru Sahib demands Sikhs to follow his teachings to a dot, not go around changing the meanings and manipulating the rehit (not aimed at you).

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11 minutes ago, Kira said:

Gurbani is extremely straightforward in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the language in it is beautiful but simple. Just read it in Gurmukhi

I find Gurbani far from straight forward.. Rather it's poetic nature adds a level of ambiguity unique forcing the reader to look further. Add to that the improvisational characteristics of gurmat sangeet and the nature of truth becomes far more easy to grasp 

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3 minutes ago, Kira said:

That's a tad hypocricital. You want to do Personal research but you haven't bothered learning the actual Gurmukhi script? you claim to want to learn but cant be arsed learning from actual experts in the field. Guru Sahib demands Sikhs to follow his teachings to a dot, not go around changing the meanings and manipulating the rehit (not aimed at you).

I think we should just leave it there 

Edited by Sukhvirk1976

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On ‎03‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 4:41 PM, Guest followthelight said:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

PROBLEM CONTEXT

I am living/ working in a country for a few months where there are no Sikhs, let alone a Gurudwara. I've tried contacting via FB etc, there is no sangat near me. My team is nice, we get along fine. 

I do not at all feel even the slightest temptation to drink alcohol, touch meat (vegertarian options without egg are so scarce here), have relationships with other travellers or remove my body hair (even though it is 50 degrees heat and everyone is wearing singlets and shorts going to the beach). I know this is all Guru Ji's help. 2 years ago I was drinking and vomiting in toilets, having sex with strangers, removing as much body hair as I could and thinking i was a 'spiritual person' I know I've been addicted to alcohol, cannabis, MDMA and the fact I have no desire now isn't something I am capable of- this is Guru Ji's working.

THE PROBLEM

I'm really starting to miss my Amritvela. I used to so freely wake up, shower, do simran and nitnem and not worry. now I have to worry about so many things with my roommate, especially as she sleeps so late. Even though I don't complain of her sleeping late (perhaps I should, tactfully?) she will say things like "I couldn't sleep because I heard your alarm so I've been up since very early." This makes me feel super guilty. 

Extra guilty because I'm so TIRED that I don't even remember hearing the alarm myself or turning it off... I DONT WAKE UP AT AMRITVELA. 

i end up waking up around 5.30-6am so amritvela is long-gone. 

Since my time being here, I've only once had the chance to do amritvela freely, and that is when everyone had gone out drinking/ clubbing for the night and came home late. 

When I do my nitnem I don't say it aloud because she is always in the room (and a different faith so i don't want to ever feel like I'm forcing or invading personal space). But man. I miss doing simran aloud- feeling my throat muscles saying Waheguru and closing my eyes so my ears could hear my body speak Waheguru. Be grateful to Waheguru for allowing my body, my lips to be blessed with the beauty of their Naam. The sweetness in my mouth, the warmth of the love but the cool breeze of peace settling in my head, sinking into my heart...anyway Imma get senti real quick lol. So please. I understand my current situation is resultant of karams from this life and previous. But I want help in improving my new karams that I'm (not) earning every moment. How do I wake up at Amritvela?

Need help with how to 

1. Ask to turn lights off earlier because I can't sleep until ALL lights are off (which doesn't happen till around 11pm)

2. Shower without feeling guilty about making noise and waking her up too early

3. Sing Gurbani aloud. I'm scared I'll get into a bad habit if I keep doing this and become lazy in the future. 

And any other advice you could offer would be highly appreciated 

DO wake up Amritvela do not worry about others. They'll moan for a day or 2 but they'll get over it.

ONLY do Simran loud if no one's present. So far you got kirpa Maharajah will d more kirpa.

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On 10/08/2017 at 8:50 PM, Kira said:

That's a tad hypocricital. You want to do Personal research but you haven't bothered learning the actual Gurmukhi script? you claim to want to learn but cant be arsed learning from actual experts in the field. Guru Sahib demands Sikhs to follow his teachings to a dot, not go around changing the meanings and manipulating the rehit (not aimed at you).

I think it's also worth pointing out that the Sikh rehit maryada as officially published is itself a political document and therefore manipulated

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34 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I think it's also worth pointing out that the Sikh rehit maryada as officially published is itself a political document and therefore manipulated

I said Rehit not SRM. Rehit referring to the Code of Conduct laid out by Guru Sahib and not the ones changed by SGPC.

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

I said Rehit not SRM. Rehit referring to the Code of Conduct laid out by Guru Sahib and not the ones changed by SGPC.

Fair enough. My bad.

So then what were you referring to when you meant rehit.. What do you refer to and use as a measure? You mentioned people manipulating and changing meaning of rehit.. I'm genuinely curious as I find researching source documents very rewarding. 

SSA

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Fair enough. My bad.

So then what were you referring to when you meant rehit.. What do you refer to and use as a measure? You mentioned people manipulating and changing meaning of rehit.. I'm genuinely curious as I find researching source documents very rewarding. 

SSA

maybe spend less time there and more time going back to the basics.Learn Gurmukhi first and then go after them.

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48 minutes ago, Kira said:

maybe spend less time there and more time going back to the basics.Learn Gurmukhi first and then go after them.

I'm always learning Gurmukhi my friend like everything there's always more to learn.. 

But going back to what you said do you actually have a reference point or was that something ethereal? 

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50 minutes ago, Kira said:

maybe spend less time there and more time going back to the basics.Learn Gurmukhi first and then go after them.

I'm not sure what you meant about spending 'less time there'? 

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