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Amritvela with a roommate not wanting to inconvenience

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Guest singh

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh.

I wish I had the same pyaas as you. You can go outside and do your nitnem, preferably at a local park. The only problem is the shower which if you think your roommate will have a problem then maybe get an 24/7 gym pass and go use the shower there. The only thing you gotta do is to wake up! 

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11 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't see what this has to do with the roommate issue, but no, I don't think it's recommended that Non-Sikhs marry Sikhs.

 

OK, why should Sikhs not marry non-Sikhs? Yes, I know that you can say that it's a command of Guru Sahib, but the next question is what does that accomplish? E.g., there's a command to wear a kirpan, but then the next question is why? And we give the answer as self-defense. So why not marry non-Sikhs?

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Guest Jacfsing2
Just now, BhForce said:

OK, why should Sikhs not marry non-Sikhs? Yes, I know that you can say that it's a command of Guru Sahib, but the next question is what does that accomplish? E.g., there's a command to wear a kirpan, but then the next question is why? And we give the answer as self-defense. So why not marry non-Sikhs?

I don't believe this applies to the roommate issue, but I believe the reason a Non-Sikh shouldn't marry a Sikh is due to lifestyles being completely different, and Sikhs are the best. 

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2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't believe this applies to the roommate issue, but I believe the reason a Non-Sikh shouldn't marry a Sikh is due to lifestyles being completely different, and Sikhs are the best. 

Right, which is what I said. What are we arguing about again?

My point was that if you can't live with a non-Sikh roommate for a couple of months and still keep your Sikh rehit, then how can you possibly live with a non-Sikh husband or wife for decades? Not to mention that the lack of agreement that you have regarding just your own lifestyles is multiplied when you have children, and then argue about what lifestyle they should lead. Do Japji Sahib and the rest of Nitnem in the morning? A 1-hour process. Or just a 30-second Christian Lord's Prayer?

18 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't think comparing 2 people living each other to a married couple is either rational or beneficial. 

OK, the rational benefit to comparing roommates to married couples is to illustrate the need for a Sikh marriage partner, which I think I just did above, with help from you.

Finally, I don't know if by "compare" you mean only "illustrate the similarities", but Google and Oxford define compare to mean "note the similarity or dissimilarity".

P.S. If anyone thinks Sikhs can or should marry out, speak now or forever hold your peace.

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Guest Jacfsing2
1 minute ago, BhForce said:

Right, which is what I said. What are we arguing about again?

 

 

We are arguing because you believe comparing a roommate is to a spouse is reasonable, while I still don't.

2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

 

My point was that if you can't live with a non-Sikh roommate for a couple of months and still keep your Sikh rehit, then how can you possibly live with a non-Sikh husband or wife for decades? 

I'd say most people can live as a same-gender, different worldviews lifestyle, a spouse; however is very different from a roommate, people tend to be different for roommates and the way they treat spouses. Whereas I believe that people of incompatible lifestyles can't marry, I don't believe the same for roommates. All in all, there will be situations where it will be near impossible to find Amritdhari roommates.

7 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Not to mention that the lack of agreement that you have regarding just your own lifestyles is multiplied when you have children, and then argue about what lifestyle they should lead.

Usually if I would need a roommate, I'd honestly recommend same-gender, whereas for a spouse that should always be opposite gender, again comparing 2 unlike things. Also I don't really recommend people have sexual relations with roommates, whereas a spouse it's almost expected. Since you think the 2 are comparable, do you really think a spouse is just someone who happens to live with you?

11 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Do Japji Sahib and the rest of Nitnem in the morning? A 1-hour process. Or just a 30-second Christian Lord's Prayer?

If I had a Non-Sikh roommate and he wanted to pray to a monkey it wouldn't bother me at all, as long as I get to worship Vaheguru freely, but again for a spouse it's completely different.

14 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, the rational benefit to comparing roommates to married couples is to illustrate the need for a Sikh marriage partner, which I think I just did above, with help from you.

I don't think it's a rational comparison at all to be honest. 

16 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Finally, I don't know if by "compare" you mean only "illustrate the similarities", but Google and Oxford define compare to mean "note the similarity or dissimilarity".

With all due respect, the only similarity I got was between a spouse and roommate is they live with each other.

18 minutes ago, BhForce said:

P.S. If anyone thinks Sikhs can or should marry out, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Not something I'll debate, but if someone else does debate this topic, I'll be on your side.:waheguru:.

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On 04/08/2017 at 1:10 PM, Guest followthelight said:

What's OP?

Means original poster. 

 

23 hours ago, Guest Followthelight said:

blimey that stuff scares me kithe fasgi 😭😂 

Lol

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15 hours ago, BhForce said:

.S. If anyone thinks Sikhs can or should marry out, speak now or forever hold your peace.

I think Sikhs can marry whoever they like 

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Guest followthelight
On 05/08/2017 at 7:09 AM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

It's a really interesting issue you have raised.. I think your instincts to not impose your practices upon another and cause them undue inconvenience is absolutely in keeping with Sikh traditions! I think just for this reason you should be very happy and recognise that this is the embodiment of satnam.. And you are truly keeping satnam at the centre of your heart.. Having this consciousness is more important than amrit vela ablutions becoming ritualistic. I commend you on your empathy.. I don't think you should feel any guilt whatsoever your being harsh on yourself! 

You obviously get a lot of peace from naam Jaap simran /nitnem  at amrit vela.. There probably are a number of practical ways to address your current predicament.. 

I think you can separate some of the issues out those which are related to your personal spiritual needs and those which are to do with sharing a common space with a room mate. 

1. I think it is perfectly reasonable and normal to ask your roommate to have lights out by at the latest 11pm. 

2. Getting up to shower at whichever time you need to is your prerogative and not really something your roommate should take issue with. Obviously you should,  as I'm sure you do already, be as quiet as possible and not unduly inconvenience your roommate. 

3. I think until you can change your circumstances you should definitely exhaust all possible ways to sleep earlier to help you wake earlier.. Maybe try eye mask and ear plugs or phones.. It's worth a shot? 

4. Try achieving one thing at a time.. Getting to sleep to wake up at the time you want and build up from there. 

5. Speak to your roommate about your thoughts you may find they are sympathetic and will try and be considerate 

Your heart is in the right place don't be too hard on yourself and your respect for your roommate is a microcosm of the Sikh macro approach to the wider world. However it is a fine line if your room mate is behaving inappropriately then there are wider issues to address. 

Clearly you have been blessed with 'gurprasad'! You are lucky! It's not supposed to be easy.. If the way to be a good gursikh was as simple as 'ritualistically'  waking up at amrit vela, doing nitnem etc taking amrit etc then it wouldn't really be khoj 

OUTCOME

Thankyou , jkvlondon and guest singh and others for all your practical tips. 

Can't believe I didn't think about an eye mask, have been looking out for one since. I've been using an alarm on a watch; works so well!! 

24/7 Gym for shower is such a smart idea! but the earliest one here is 5am

We had a conversation and agreed to have lights out by 10pm. 

I'll be taking this opportunity to extend my Amritvela to earlier than usual, so that she is in deeper sleep when I am up (Thankyou Guru Ji for this opportunity )

It's been working for past few days, I feel much better now.

I've also been saying no to some social outings so I can have the room to myself and sing Waheguru aloud... Guru Ji hears all prayers and shows us the way

Thankyou Sangat Ji, I love you all <3 

 

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Guest TS GUEST

If I were you I would try and just find and isolated space away from that peticular roommate. your main worry is that she is not disturbed. perhaps at night leave the door just open enough for you to be able to get out. 

as for waking up. are you I a rhythm yet? if not would it be easier for you to stay awake to midnight then to armit vehli and sleep around 1:30am and just sleep in longer. 

as for the showers I guess you have to just be quiet ir find another bathroom in the building to shower in. or idk maybe shower afterwards idk

any safe place in which you dont disturb your roommate or other people in the community would be ideal. if there is a spare room, public foyer, backyard to where your staying?. if the weather is warm even a walk to a safe public place in, near or around where you are. im sure there is somewhere you could go where there is silence..

also is your roommate someone you will know for alongtime after this trip. if not you should just telk her you need to get up cause of religious purposes cause you dont need to explain yourself to every single person in your life. and if you will no her for along time after this trip then you will always have time to become friends and explain to her afterwards.

dont be too hard on yourself. guru ji knows and understands what your going through.

i wish i could helo more or suggest more but tbh there are alot of different ways you could make this work. just need to find one ayy. sorry about my rushed grammer im kinda studying for a maths test I have tomorrow that I so gonna fail in

 

PS: to all those people talking abg marriage, &lt;banned word filter activated&gt; has that got to do with anything in this issue hahaha. argue about it somewhere else. and only leave relevant helpful replys for this person plz

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On Sunday, August 06, 2017 at 2:40 AM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I think Sikhs can marry whoever they like 

Out of curiousity,  are you one of those ppl that believe sikh means learner, so sikhs have no rules or rehits or restriction and only an obligation to go out and learn. Just learn it could be mathematics, poetry, learn pagean rituals, learn life cycle of beetles, just go learn?

Because from ur posts it seems like u believe sikh just means being a nice person.  

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12 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Out of curiousity,  are you one of those ppl that believe sikh means learner, so sikhs have no rules or rehits or restriction and only an obligation to go out and learn. Just learn it could be mathematics, poetry, learn pagean rituals, learn life cycle of beetles, just go learn?

Because from ur posts it seems like u believe sikh just means being a nice person.  

 

That's a very curious question..

I have never thought there was any other interpretation or transliteration of to the term 'sikh' other than being a student? 

What do you think the term Sikh means if not student? 

 

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20 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Out of curiousity,  are you one of those ppl that believe sikh means learner, so sikhs have no rules or rehits or restriction and only an obligation to go out and learn. Just learn it could be mathematics, poetry, learn pagean rituals, learn life cycle of beetles, just go learn?

Because from ur posts it seems like u believe sikh just means being a nice person.  

As a 'Sikh' for me I believe I have no 'obligation'  to anyone, nor do I need to follow any rules because someone has told me to.. I know for sure that whilst my 'guru' tells me I should avoid  kaam, krodh, lobh, ahankar, Moh,  they are things within me to conquer.. I am under  no obligation to follow any social construct or 'rules' as you say that are given to me by others. By being a student /learner and seeker of truth these things will fall away. Moreover I would naturally learn to see Sat, daya, nimrata, santokh, and pyaar as being virtuous.. I'm really quite confused as to the nature of your question 

 

Edited by Sukhvirk1976
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Guest Followthelight
5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

As a 'Sikh' for me I believe I have no 'obligation'  to anyone, nor do I need to follow any rules because someone has told me to.. I know for sure that whilst my 'guru' tells me I should avoid  kaam, krodh, lobh, ahankar, Mohammed,  they are things within me to conquer.. I am under  no obligation to follow any social construct or 'rules' as you say that are given to me by others. By being a student /learner and seeker of truth these things will fall away. Moreover I would naturally learn to see Sat, daya, nimrata, santokh, and pyaar as being virtuous.. I'm really quite confused as to the nature of your question 

 

many think Sikh means student as in learner but really means student as in disciple. Two very different connotations. And the meaning we give behind this will impact our Sikhi. When I thought of myself as a learner I was easier on myself in a sense. When I see myself as a disciple I see myself as always trying to leave my ways (manmat) and abide by GuruJis ways (gurmat). Idk. When I only thought of myself as a learner it was more like walking in a field of daisies, appreciating but not fully committing ? Thoughts

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On days you cannot read paat, why not get some headphones and listen to paat instead? That will not disturb your roommate.

I have different playlists setup for myself on Youtube and Music players depending on which shift I am going to at work, or for other circumstances. If you have time, this will give you an opportunity to listen nitnem in proper raag, Baru Sahib Anahad Bani Jatha currently have some nitnem banis sung in raag tanti saaj gurmat sangeet on Youtube.

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On 08/08/2017 at 10:32 AM, Guest Followthelight said:

many think Sikh means student as in learner but really means student as in disciple. Two very different connotations. And the meaning we give behind this will impact our Sikhi. When I thought of myself as a learner I was easier on myself in a sense. When I see myself as a disciple I see myself as always trying to leave my ways (manmat) and abide by GuruJis ways (gurmat). Idk. When I only thought of myself as a learner it was more like walking in a field of daisies, appreciating but not fully committing ? Thoughts

I agree it means disciple.. But it can mean a disciple of knowledge in its widest sense. 

I've always thought it curious that in mool mantar the shabad is gurprasad and not guru prasad ie. Through the grace of knowledge 

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