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Amritvela with a roommate not wanting to inconvenience

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Guest followthelight

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

PROBLEM CONTEXT

I am living/ working in a country for a few months where there are no Sikhs, let alone a Gurudwara. I've tried contacting via FB etc, there is no sangat near me. My team is nice, we get along fine. 

I do not at all feel even the slightest temptation to drink alcohol, touch meat (vegertarian options without egg are so scarce here), have relationships with other travellers or remove my body hair (even though it is 50 degrees heat and everyone is wearing singlets and shorts going to the beach). I know this is all Guru Ji's help. 2 years ago I was drinking and vomiting in toilets, having sex with strangers, removing as much body hair as I could and thinking i was a 'spiritual person' I know I've been addicted to alcohol, cannabis, MDMA and the fact I have no desire now isn't something I am capable of- this is Guru Ji's working.

THE PROBLEM

I'm really starting to miss my Amritvela. I used to so freely wake up, shower, do simran and nitnem and not worry. now I have to worry about so many things with my roommate, especially as she sleeps so late. Even though I don't complain of her sleeping late (perhaps I should, tactfully?) she will say things like "I couldn't sleep because I heard your alarm so I've been up since very early." This makes me feel super guilty. 

Extra guilty because I'm so TIRED that I don't even remember hearing the alarm myself or turning it off... I DONT WAKE UP AT AMRITVELA. 

i end up waking up around 5.30-6am so amritvela is long-gone. 

Since my time being here, I've only once had the chance to do amritvela freely, and that is when everyone had gone out drinking/ clubbing for the night and came home late. 

When I do my nitnem I don't say it aloud because she is always in the room (and a different faith so i don't want to ever feel like I'm forcing or invading personal space). But man. I miss doing simran aloud- feeling my throat muscles saying Waheguru and closing my eyes so my ears could hear my body speak Waheguru. Be grateful to Waheguru for allowing my body, my lips to be blessed with the beauty of their Naam. The sweetness in my mouth, the warmth of the love but the cool breeze of peace settling in my head, sinking into my heart...anyway Imma get senti real quick lol. So please. I understand my current situation is resultant of karams from this life and previous. But I want help in improving my new karams that I'm (not) earning every moment. How do I wake up at Amritvela?

Need help with how to 

1. Ask to turn lights off earlier because I can't sleep until ALL lights are off (which doesn't happen till around 11pm)

2. Shower without feeling guilty about making noise and waking her up too early

3. Sing Gurbani aloud. I'm scared I'll get into a bad habit if I keep doing this and become lazy in the future. 

And any other advice you could offer would be highly appreciated 

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To OP, how long are you there for? It's not an ideal environment to be in, but the questions you've asked on here, maybe you could ask them instead. Explain about being a Sikh and what your daily routine is. The alarm going off is going to disturb anybody asleep if they don't normally get up at that time. Have the alarm on silent mode, but you won't get up then, as its already not working. Can you not get a room on your own? 

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On 8/3/2017 at 4:41 PM, Guest followthelight said:

2 years ago I was drinking and vomiting in toilets, having sex with strangers, removing as much body hair as I could and thinking i was a 'spiritual person' I know I've been addicted to alcohol, cannabis, MDMA and the fact I have no desire now isn't something I am capable of- this is Guru Ji's working.

If you're female, watch out for all this. Lots of alcohol isn't processed well by the female body and can have serious enduring effects in a relatively short time. Plus being off your head in public is a guaranteed way of attracting predators directly towards you - with all that entails....

As Simran345 suggested, try getting your own room if possible but don't slip back to old behaviours once no one is watching you. 

Edited by dallysingh101
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Guest followthelight
2 hours ago, simran345 said:

To OP, how long are you there for? It's not an ideal environment to be in, but the questions you've asked on here, maybe you could ask them instead. Explain about being a Sikh and what your daily routine is. The alarm going off is going to disturb anybody asleep if they don't normally get up at that time. Have the alarm on silent mode, but you won't get up then, as its already not working. Can you not get a room on your own? 

What's OP?

I wish I could have my own room haha, everything would be much easier. It's just expensive, considering I'm staying for another approx 2 months. Plus it feels like I'm avoiding the situation at hand? (Learning to put Sikhi first, learning to communicate ?) 

and dallysingh101 agreed... I just learnt that the hard/ longer way. #egoprobs 

 

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I was going to say, if you're having problems waking before 6, you should sleep at 8 or 9, and easily wake up 6-7 hours later, making it between 2 and 4.

But then you say your roommate doesn't turn the lights off till 11. I think that is highly unfair of her. If you wants to watch movies till 11, let her do so, on her iPad with earphones and the lights off. Most people prefer to watch movies in the dark, anyways.

Shower noise should only be a problem if she is an extremely light sleeper.

Assuming she drinks and eats meat, you might be able to say that you would never think to impose your religion on her, but equally, she should not seek to prevent you from practicing your own.

As for the speaking Gurbani out loud, I would say you shouldn't, as a reasonable accommodation to your roommate. But, you can listen to Gurbani on earphones while you're reading the text. There are Nitnem apps for that.

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Oh, one more point:

This should definitely prove all of you wrong who say, "Where does it say you can't marry a non-Sikh?"

It should be clear as day you can't really live in Sikh rehit when you live with a non-Sikh. You'd always be walking on eggshells, and be living two different lives, which is one thing for roommates, but not acceptable for husband and wife, otherwise, why get married in the first place?

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Guest Daas

First of all, that sangat will poison you, if not right now, later. Secondly about your AmritVela issue use a sleep calculator like www.SleepyTi.me. As for the rest I think other members have given good advice.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Like many of the people here, I do recommend that you get a new roommate; or if that's not possible, you tell her straight-up that you have to wake-up early for religious reasons, usually people will try to be accommodating or will flat out give you the other advice of getting a new roommate who can accommodate you. The solution to showers is just make it as quick as possible. If you can't do Gurbani out loud try to listen to Gurbani on a device and repeat what they are saying quietly.

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Guest Jacfsing2
5 hours ago, BhForce said:

Oh, one more point:

This should definitely prove all of you wrong who say, "Where does it say you can't marry a non-Sikh?"

It should be clear as day you can't really live in Sikh rehit when you live with a non-Sikh. You'd always be walking on eggshells, and be living two different lives, which is one thing for roommates, but not acceptable for husband and wife, otherwise, why get married in the first place?

I don't think comparing 2 people living each other to a married couple is either rational or beneficial. 

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't think comparing 2 people living each other to a married couple is either rational or beneficial. 

I think it's entirely rational and beneficial, brother.

But first, let me ask you if you think a Sikh can marry a non-Sikh, and we can go on from there. (I realize people can do anything they want--what I'm asking is if Guru Sahib wants us to do so.)

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Guest Followthelight
7 hours ago, BhForce said:

I was going to say, if you're having problems waking before 6, you should sleep at 8 or 9, and easily wake up 6-7 hours later, making it between 2 and 4.

But then you say your roommate doesn't turn the lights off till 11. I think that is highly unfair of her. If you wants to watch movies till 11, let her do so, on her iPad with earphones and the lights off. Most people prefer to watch movies in the dark, anyways.

Shower noise should only be a problem if she is an extremely light sleeper.

Assuming she drinks and eats meat, you might be able to say that you would never think to impose your religion on her, but equally, she should not seek to prevent you from practicing your own.

As for the speaking Gurbani out loud, I would say you shouldn't, as a reasonable accommodation to your roommate. But, you can listen to Gurbani on earphones while you're reading the text. There are Nitnem apps for that.

She's an EXTREMELY light sleeper and will comment on waking up even if I leave the room in the morning/ go to bathroom/ breathe saying I woke her up.

Last night I was more assertive and asked to have lights off by 10 and she grudgingly was like yeah sure. I usually sleep at 8. 

I wanna make it clear she is a nice and accomodating person. From her perspective it is super inconvienient having a room mate with such a different timetable. 

from this advice I feel I should get some courage and "deal with it" haha and talk to her. &##$ blimey that stuff scares me kithe fasgi 😭😂 

And I agree I have been reflecting heaps from this experience about what values I would want my future husband to be, makes sense why amritdhari should marry amritdhari 

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Guest Jacfsing2
1 hour ago, BhForce said:

I think it's entirely rational and beneficial, brother.

But first, let me ask you if you think a Sikh can marry a non-Sikh, and we can go on from there. (I realize people can do anything they want--what I'm asking is if Guru Sahib wants us to do so.)

I don't see what this has to do with the roommate issue, but no, I don't think it's recommended that Non-Sikhs marry Sikhs.

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On 03/08/2017 at 4:41 PM, Guest followthelight said:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

PROBLEM CONTEXT

I am living/ working in a country for a few months where there are no Sikhs, let alone a Gurudwara. I've tried contacting via FB etc, there is no sangat near me. My team is nice, we get along fine. 

I do not at all feel even the slightest temptation to drink alcohol, touch meat (vegertarian options without egg are so scarce here), have relationships with other travellers or remove my body hair (even though it is 50 degrees heat and everyone is wearing singlets and shorts going to the beach). I know this is all Guru Ji's help. 2 years ago I was drinking and vomiting in toilets, having sex with strangers, removing as much body hair as I could and thinking i was a 'spiritual person' I know I've been addicted to alcohol, cannabis, MDMA and the fact I have no desire now isn't something I am capable of- this is Guru Ji's working.

THE PROBLEM

I'm really starting to miss my Amritvela. I used to so freely wake up, shower, do simran and nitnem and not worry. now I have to worry about so many things with my roommate, especially as she sleeps so late. Even though I don't complain of her sleeping late (perhaps I should, tactfully?) she will say things like "I couldn't sleep because I heard your alarm so I've been up since very early." This makes me feel super guilty. 

Extra guilty because I'm so TIRED that I don't even remember hearing the alarm myself or turning it off... I DONT WAKE UP AT AMRITVELA. 

i end up waking up around 5.30-6am so amritvela is long-gone. 

Since my time being here, I've only once had the chance to do amritvela freely, and that is when everyone had gone out drinking/ clubbing for the night and came home late. 

When I do my nitnem I don't say it aloud because she is always in the room (and a different faith so i don't want to ever feel like I'm forcing or invading personal space). But man. I miss doing simran aloud- feeling my throat muscles saying Waheguru and closing my eyes so my ears could hear my body speak Waheguru. Be grateful to Waheguru for allowing my body, my lips to be blessed with the beauty of their Naam. The sweetness in my mouth, the warmth of the love but the cool breeze of peace settling in my head, sinking into my heart...anyway Imma get senti real quick lol. So please. I understand my current situation is resultant of karams from this life and previous. But I want help in improving my new karams that I'm (not) earning every moment. How do I wake up at Amritvela?

Need help with how to 

1. Ask to turn lights off earlier because I can't sleep until ALL lights are off (which doesn't happen till around 11pm)

2. Shower without feeling guilty about making noise and waking her up too early

3. Sing Gurbani aloud. I'm scared I'll get into a bad habit if I keep doing this and become lazy in the future. 

And any other advice you could offer would be highly appreciated 

It's a really interesting issue you have raised.. I think your instincts to not impose your practices upon another and cause them undue inconvenience is absolutely in keeping with Sikh traditions! I think just for this reason you should be very happy and recognise that this is the embodiment of satnam.. And you are truly keeping satnam at the centre of your heart.. Having this consciousness is more important than amrit vela ablutions becoming ritualistic. I commend you on your empathy.. I don't think you should feel any guilt whatsoever your being harsh on yourself! 

You obviously get a lot of peace from naam Jaap simran /nitnem  at amrit vela.. There probably are a number of practical ways to address your current predicament.. 

I think you can separate some of the issues out those which are related to your personal spiritual needs and those which are to do with sharing a common space with a room mate. 

1. I think it is perfectly reasonable and normal to ask your roommate to have lights out by at the latest 11pm. 

2. Getting up to shower at whichever time you need to is your prerogative and not really something your roommate should take issue with. Obviously you should,  as I'm sure you do already, be as quiet as possible and not unduly inconvenience your roommate. 

3. I think until you can change your circumstances you should definitely exhaust all possible ways to sleep earlier to help you wake earlier.. Maybe try eye mask and ear plugs or phones.. It's worth a shot? 

4. Try achieving one thing at a time.. Getting to sleep to wake up at the time you want and build up from there. 

5. Speak to your roommate about your thoughts you may find they are sympathetic and will try and be considerate 

Your heart is in the right place don't be too hard on yourself and your respect for your roommate is a microcosm of the Sikh macro approach to the wider world. However it is a fine line if your room mate is behaving inappropriately then there are wider issues to address. 

Clearly you have been blessed with 'gurprasad'! You are lucky! It's not supposed to be easy.. If the way to be a good gursikh was as simple as 'ritualistically'  waking up at amrit vela, doing nitnem etc taking amrit etc then it wouldn't really be khoj 

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On 03/08/2017 at 4:41 PM, Guest followthelight said:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

PROBLEM CONTEXT

I am living/ working in a country for a few months where there are no Sikhs, let alone a Gurudwara. I've tried contacting via FB etc, there is no sangat near me. My team is nice, we get along fine. 

I do not at all feel even the slightest temptation to drink alcohol, touch meat (vegertarian options without egg are so scarce here), have relationships with other travellers or remove my body hair (even though it is 50 degrees heat and everyone is wearing singlets and shorts going to the beach). I know this is all Guru Ji's help. 2 years ago I was drinking and vomiting in toilets, having sex with strangers, removing as much body hair as I could and thinking i was a 'spiritual person' I know I've been addicted to alcohol, cannabis, MDMA and the fact I have no desire now isn't something I am capable of- this is Guru Ji's working.

THE PROBLEM

I'm really starting to miss my Amritvela. I used to so freely wake up, shower, do simran and nitnem and not worry. now I have to worry about so many things with my roommate, especially as she sleeps so late. Even though I don't complain of her sleeping late (perhaps I should, tactfully?) she will say things like "I couldn't sleep because I heard your alarm so I've been up since very early." This makes me feel super guilty. 

Extra guilty because I'm so TIRED that I don't even remember hearing the alarm myself or turning it off... I DONT WAKE UP AT AMRITVELA. 

i end up waking up around 5.30-6am so amritvela is long-gone. 

Since my time being here, I've only once had the chance to do amritvela freely, and that is when everyone had gone out drinking/ clubbing for the night and came home late. 

When I do my nitnem I don't say it aloud because she is always in the room (and a different faith so i don't want to ever feel like I'm forcing or invading personal space). But man. I miss doing simran aloud- feeling my throat muscles saying Waheguru and closing my eyes so my ears could hear my body speak Waheguru. Be grateful to Waheguru for allowing my body, my lips to be blessed with the beauty of their Naam. The sweetness in my mouth, the warmth of the love but the cool breeze of peace settling in my head, sinking into my heart...anyway Imma get senti real quick lol. So please. I understand my current situation is resultant of karams from this life and previous. But I want help in improving my new karams that I'm (not) earning every moment. How do I wake up at Amritvela?

Need help with how to 

1. Ask to turn lights off earlier because I can't sleep until ALL lights are off (which doesn't happen till around 11pm)

2. Shower without feeling guilty about making noise and waking her up too early

3. Sing Gurbani aloud. I'm scared I'll get into a bad habit if I keep doing this and become lazy in the future. 

And any other advice you could offer would be highly appreciated 

ok ,

for a homeopathic seminar which lasted 2 weeks I had to roomshare with a white non-religious person, similar worries 

1. get an alarm on your watch which is  quiet or use vibrating silent alarm on phone

2. have your bathroom stuff sorted, preferably in the bathroom so you can make less noise in the room at morningtime.

3. sit on your made bed and do your nitnem quietly, maybe you could your Nitnem in the living room at that early time instead of the bedroom. (then you can sing gurbani)

4. why don't you get an eyemask to block out lights and earplugs if she is noisy

5. stop worrying , Rabb rakha

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Guest London jwaan

Don't worry about anything - luckily you have come to the right place.

All you need to do is invite over jagsaw Singh from this forum, who in sure would be delighted to visit you and would have absolutely no problem waving his kirpan about in your room acting like a tw*t, and if your roommate asks any questions he will just make loads of crap up that will be almost entirely nonsensical. 

Your roommate will then be nice as pie. You could take a crap in the middle of the floor and she would say nothing as she would be grateful you were not in the same stratosphere of behvkoofi as jagsaw....

Wjkk wjkf

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It was the culmination of a long drawn out plan to inflict such wounds on the Sikh psyche that the community would never again agitate for civil rights in the Indian union, and assimilate into the greater neo-Hindu political fold (Hindutva). Radical, in scope, 1984 has swiftly dethroned existing analyses of that apocalyptic November and portends change in the global perception of genocide.   1984, from the onset, does not exercise restraint. It is vivid in it’s recounting of the horrors which the Sikhs faced in the aftermath of Prime Minister Indra Gandhi’s assassination. Whereas the mass rapes of Sikh girls and women have often been downplayed in the works of Khushwant Singh and Nayer, Pav Singh elects to focus on how it was employed as a tool to humiliate Sikh males before they were doused in kerosene and set on fire. His almost calm narration of events is enough to render even the most staunch of readers chilled. 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Pav Singh systematically exposes this canard, again relying on official documentation, to evidence that at least forty-six unauthorized train stops were made which allowed assembled mobs to slay all Sikhs on board.   For Sikhs, the primacy of Pav Singh’s work hinges on three crucial factors: 1.) It effectively refutes the misnomer of riot. 2.) Whilst paying tribute to the few brave souls who risked life and limb to save Sikhs, it also depicts the callousness of politicians, police and neighbors who betrayed the Sikhs by rendering them defenseless in the face of bloodthirsty mobs. 3.) It refutes the theory of Delhi Riots. Detailed maps provide evidence of sanguinary pogroms executed in Gujrat, Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, Assam, West Bengal and Agartala.  Candid, impenitent and critical- Pav Singh’s 1984 is radical in it’s approach to the November pogroms. Though sections of the Indian media are criticizing Singh, his work should be judged with impartiality; India’s Guilty Secret not only recounts the atrocities inflicted on the Sikhs, but also exposes the political/social cohesion via which the events of November ’84 transpired. The theory of Nanak Jayanti, an alleged rumor which posits that the pogroms were intended for execution on the birth celebrations of Guru Nanak Dev Ji (founder of the Sikh faith) for maximum damage, is also analyzed by Singh. Victim statements are taken into account which depict the conditions outside Punjab in the aftermath of the ill-construed Operation Bluestar. Sikh businesses and residences were often transcribed with a S symbol in the lead-up to November; on the night of 31st October teams were employed to scour several cities in a mission to place this S on all Sikh locations. On the 1st of November the grim significance of this symbol would become transparent as mobs  marched on all such identified locations.  Nanak Jayanti, caught out by Gandhi’s demise, had been implemented earlier to teach the troublesome Sikhs a bloody lesson.    What of the judiciary and the aftermath? Singh, in a brief list, provides an exposition of all the failed commissions which attempted to tackle November ’84 but failed to provide even token justice for the victims. He ends on a poignant note; the survivors of ’84, forgotten by all, are shown as suffering from the trauma of the atrocities inflicted upon them. The state is continually failing in it’s mandate to provide them justice; the social discourse veils their trauma whereas the same ideology which preyed upon them is today gaining ground nationwide. Justice delayed is justice denied, justice denied is justice perverted.    https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2018/02/25/la-noche-triste/  
    • It seems some Indians see through Ms. Trudeau's act:  Maybe it's just salty right-wing Indians?  
    • Bhai Mokham Singh was the exception. Some Hindus are more kanjoos than others. Gujeratis are those type of Hindus. I heard a Hindu Punjabi Brahmin of all people tell a Gujerati how tight his people were. It was quite an.eye opening experience.  I think we as Sikhs don't look how non Sikhs see us.  I think that these Gujerati Hindus see us intellictually inferior,  big and dumb but cannot figure how come these Sikhs make such a great success of themselves if they are so dumb. They think to themselves , " What is it about the Sardar's religion that makes them this way." They see something in us that we don't and it scares them. We are hated by higher caste hindus because in the caste system they are the rentier castes.  They feed off the lower castes like a parasite does.  We as Sikhs by an large produce and create our own value and distribute it and create more prosperity all round.we operate outside the caste system, it does nothing for us, there is no need for it. We Sikhs have chardikala spirit and therefore we have more energy to take risks.  We don't over -think things like a lot of these highly intellectual Hindus who create paralysis by analysis, we just do. And when we create wealth out of it, it gets right up their nose. 
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