Prokharkoo84

Lessons to be learnt from the Khalistan Movement

122 posts in this topic

33 minutes ago, sitokaur said:

surely do not AND WILL NOT!

He supported khalistan. He also just said that in general, he meant it all for all Sikhs who were out and about protesting and doing naaray baazi. He wasn't saying kharkus aren't khalsay. Not too mention he said that in 85, when there was little kharku action and killings. There wasn't even anyone for him to have been lecturing! 

 

Khalsa has been killing since day 1, what do you mean they don't kill?

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

From what zaffarwal said Dr Sekhon killed some of his members who were showing opposition. After that, some other KLF guys went too Panjwar camp, which caused problems between the two groups. Other sources too say there was conflict between Singh's, but this is the most detailed account I know of. 

I've read Sakheera was also killed by kharkus, Manbir Singh Chaherus group. Don't know if true. Any insight?

Post 84, I believe the original cause of inter-fighting amongst kharkus was Khalistan or Greater Autonomy. Negotiate or No negotiation. Opinions shouldn't have been imposed by force. That pretty much set a very negative precedent. 

Iv never heard that about Sakheera, I do know that apparently him and Baba Manochahal had a run in and Baba M offered him out? Dont know if this is 100% true or not. Manjinder Singh Issi says they fought with josh not hosh and i think this pretty much sums the sangaarsh up, a lot of young hot headed lads armed with heavy fire in a setting where paranoia must have been galore due to the amount of touts etc. Does anyone know much about the foreign based 'Khalistanis' who turned out to be rats? I know there is a lot of speculation on Chauhan, Aulakh, Bains, the ISYF etc, anyone know more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

Edited by sitokaur
more thoughts to add
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, sitokaur said:

Khalsa kill ONLY IN DHARAM YUDH!

Why is this Hindu on a Sikh site!! Khalsa fight for righteousness! 

Who define Dharam yudh

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, sitokaur said:

Khalsa kill ONLY IN DHARAM YUDH!

What's Dharam Yudh for you? It only means righteous war, and as far as I see it the Khalistani Shaheeds were fighting for a righteous cause. Dharam Yudh has always existed from Sat Yug. What is better to let many innocent people die, or to stand-up for what is right?

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SITO KAUR CAN YOU PLEASE STOP POSTING ON THIS TOPIC AS YOUR BULL$HIT IS NOT NEEDED AND NOT WHAT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

SITO KAUR CAN YOU PLEASE STOP POSTING ON THIS TOPIC AS YOUR BULL$HIT IS NOT NEEDED AND NOT WHAT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT.

bro could you not speak a little more calmly ? Part of the path is not being quick to lose one's control of the 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/08/2017 at 3:51 AM, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

He supported khalistan. He also just said that in general, he meant it all for all Sikhs who were out and about protesting and doing naaray baazi. He wasn't saying kharkus aren't khalsay. Not too mention he said that in 85, when there was little kharku action and killings. There wasn't even anyone for him to have been lecturing! 

nt 

Khalsa has been killing since day 1, what do you mean they don't kill?

Bhai Jeevan Singh ji actually said jeh tanu Khalistan de lodd aa, pehle Khalsa bano... the standard of khalsa is so high , judging by the in-fighting, betrayals and amount of egobased retaliation you guys have mentioned there were many people who  forgot that level. If a Brahmgiani is giving advice to the kaum I would take it to be the truth of the situation

Edited by jkvlondon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With hindsight I think one of the biggest weaknesses of the movement was its economic vision. I think some younger people might forget (or might not know) that the lehar took place on the back of the (now infamous) green revolution. There was way too much dependence on the agricultural industry. Given the water issues even back then, it would've been more prudent to diversify the economy in Panjab at that point. I think even this dependence on agriculture is a legacy of colonialism, with a lot of the alternate industries that existed in M. Ranjit Singh's time (that may have developed into modern economies) being destroyed. I mean, Panjab was  a thriving weapons manufacturer previously. 

The oft-repeated crying that the 'gorment' doesn't invest in Panjab for these things is pathetic in my eyes. We all know that Gurdwara donations alone (which end up largely in SGPC hands) could more than cover this. 

Who would've thought that a few decades later, India would be at the forefront of space programs and technology, whilst Panjab is wracked with smack and narcotics issues.

I think another MASSIVE failure was the misconception (many of us had, including me) that the international community would give a toss about Sikh sovereignty/independence. We now know that the UN doesn't really care and is a toothless beast anyway. Brits did their thing of pretending to be neutral but in reality being far from. We didn't have anything to bargain with like others might (like oil and other natural resources), which might have impelled people to assist us (even if for selfish motives). 

Our perception of the wider world and international politics was unbelievably naive. 

Edited by dallysingh101
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

With hindsight I think one of the biggest weaknesses of the movement was its economic vision. I think some younger people might forget (or might not know) that the lehar took place on the back of the (now infamous) green revolution. There was way too much dependence on the agricultural industry. Given the water issues even back then, it would've been more prudent to diversify the economy in Panjab at that point. I think even this dependence on agriculture is a legacy of colonialism, with a lot of the alternate industries that existed in M. Ranjit Singh's time (that may have developed into modern economies) being destroyed. I mean, Panjab was  a thriving weapons manufacturer previously. 

The oft-repeated crying that the 'gorment' doesn't invest in Panjab for these things is pathetic in my eyes. We all know that Gurdwara donations alone (which end up largely in SGPC hands) could more than cover this. 

Who would've thought that a few decades later, India would be at the forefront of space programs and technology, whilst Panjab is wracked with smack and narcotics issues.

I think another MASSIVE failure was the misconception (many of us had, including me) that the international community would give a toss about Sikh sovereignty/independence. We now know that the UN doesn't really care and is a toothless beast anyway. Brits did their thing of pretending to be neutral but in reality being far from. We didn't have anything to bargain with like others might (like oil and other natural resources), which might have impelled people to assist us (even if for selfish motives). 

Our perception of the wider world and international politics was unbelievably naive. 

Can't Punjab build it's economy again once it's independent, even when America gained independence from Great Britain it was mostly agricultural, and now it's been devolped. Russia before it's civil war was very behind technology-wise, and in modern day it's one of only a few nuclear-armed nations. The entire world was once undeveloped, but when nations and people started building for themselves, they grew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Can't Punjab build it's economy again once it's independent, even when America gained independence from Great Britain it was mostly agricultural, and now it's been devolped. Russia before it's civil war was very behind technology-wise, and in modern day it's one of only a few nuclear-armed nations. The entire world was once undeveloped, but when nations and people started building for themselves, they grew.

Why wait for independence? Why can't they start doing it now? Why didn't Panjabi SIkhs start this years ago? 

There is a backwards conservatism when it comes to innovation out there, not to mention widespread petty jealousy. 

Edited by dallysingh101
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Why wait for independence? Why can't they start doing it now? Why didn't Panjabi SIkhs start this years ago? 

There is a backwards conservatism when it comes to innovation out there, not to mention widespread petty jealousy. 

You do realize that the other state industries get subsidized by the govt (eg, Himachal), so even if Punjab has the best industry it cannot compete with products from states which are subsidized. All I am saying is that everything is not equal in Hindu India

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, acsap said:

You do realize that the other state industries get subsidized by the govt (eg, Himachal), so even if Punjab has the best industry it cannot compete with products from states which are subsidized. All I am saying is that everything is not equal in Hindu India

I absolutely agree. But like I said, Panjab does generate plenty of money, and the SGPC, which is essentially a de facto government, has enough money (through the donations of Sikhs) to use this to modernise the region. We all know the centre doesn't like us, to expect them to actually help is bordering on insanity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lessons to be learn't let me see hmmm

1) Our brothers should prepare for the worst case scenario so they should arm themselves with heavy weapons to protest the Sikh faith, fellow sikhs and innocent civilians from harm.

2) Infiltrate the enemy before they infiltrate you. We only now realise the amount of infiltration that went on to derail the punjabi sabha movement all the way to the present khalistan movement.

3) The Sikh misls and Sikh raj of the past happened because India was not a miltiary and politically united country it was various different hindu and muslim kingdoms/ empires who plotted and schemed against each other causing power vaccums for Sikhs to gain strength and take over. In 1980s the Indian army, police and paramilitaries were huge in number over 1 million men. In 1980s to 90s Sikhs with at max about 5,000 armed fighters throughout india? impossible odds to win against. Sikhs only 2% of population.... lesson here is increase population by conversion drives and birth rate. Also Sikh pride and Sikh nationalism should come first and override any sense of indian nationalism, pakistani nationalism, american, canada, british nationalism.

4) Always have a well connected world power as a major ally. At the moment the best hope is China as usa is sucking up to india to encircle china. And pakistan will never help the Sikhs because its an islamo-facsist regime that wants indians Sikhs to be killed by their fellow Indians for their own political mileage. So only China if courted correctly can be mutually beneficial to help Sikhs gain freedom from India when the time comes again probably if India tries to do a war with china.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/08/2017 at 0:51 AM, Prokharkoo84 said:

Iv never heard that about Sakheera, I do know that apparently him and Baba Manochahal had a run in and Baba M offered him out? Dont know if this is 100% true or not. Manjinder Singh Issi says they fought with josh not hosh and i think this pretty much sums the sangaarsh up, a lot of young hot headed lads armed with heavy fire in a setting where paranoia must have been galore due to the amount of touts etc. Does anyone know much about the foreign based 'Khalistanis' who turned out to be rats? I know there is a lot of speculation on Chauhan, Aulakh, Bains, the ISYF etc, anyone know more?

What was their run in over? A lot of the ISYF guys are khalistan lifers bro, sure some were snakes, but a lot still haven't turned their backs on it. Bains idk, he was briefly giving Badal a chance but cut him out very quick. I'd say he went neutral, rather pro-govt. Chauhan, Sohan and all them, still trying to learn more about them. 

6 hours ago, acsap said:

You do realize that the other state industries get subsidized by the govt (eg, Himachal), so even if Punjab has the best industry it cannot compete with products from states which are subsidized. All I am saying is that everything is not equal in Hindu India

Very true. If they willed, they could set up Punjab, but why would they? I wouldn't be surprised if the fed govt already is waiting for agriculture to fail, and have a back up planned. They're too smart to remain dependant on Sikhs/Punjab. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

What was their run

4 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

What was their run in over? A lot of the ISYF guys are khalistan lifers bro, sure some were snakes, but a lot still haven't turned their backs on it. Bains idk, he was briefly giving Badal a chance but cut him out very quick. I'd say he went neutral, rather pro-govt. Chauhan, Sohan and all them, still trying to learn more about them. 

Not sure what Sakheera and Baba Manochahal's alleged run in was over, I am guessing the same kind of beef as the others? 

From what I know about the ISYF, started off with the right intentions, but there were a lot of splits and a massive mis-use of funds. There was a programme in Derby in 1987 I believe, in which thousands were donated and I am pretty sure this was a common occurrence. However, the Derby programme in particular is notorious for those funds being jacked. Also surprises me how 'leaders' of this time that are still around now are multi millionaires in the UK, while the cause they fronted and the families of those e.g. the Shaheed pravaars were left to rot. 

Chahan - From what I know, even in the early 70's possibly 1971, he was handing out literature on Khalistan in Trafalgar square in London and he took out a massive advert in the New York Times promoting Khalistan. I know there were links between him and Sant Ji, however to what level, I do not know. What I do know, is he went back to Punjab and joined up with Zaffarwal and created the 'Khalsa Raj' party whilst being a homepathic doctor I think.

Sohan - from everything I know, he was a rat through and through and I would say a large percentage of the blame for the movement crashing was down to him. I think he was a Sarkari guy prior to joining the movement and he is the one who created a new Panthic Committee, which contributed to the deadly mistake of the election boycott of 1992. I also think if memory serves me correct, Baba Manochahal was ready to kill him along with Rode and Darshan Ragi.

Bro you know much about Gurmit Singh Aulakh? I have seen his speeches, interviews etc, however always been told he was a dubious character?

Also do you know much about the current BKI leadership in Pakistan? From what I have heard, from the good as in they are still on it, to what Tara recently came out and said?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Very true. If they willed, they could set up Punjab, but why would they? I wouldn't be surprised if the fed govt already is waiting for agriculture to fail, and have a back up planned. They're too smart to remain dependant on Sikhs/Punjab. 

This is obviously on the books. Pretty soon (if not already) they wont need too much of an indigenous agricultural sector as they'll have enough enough money to fly or ship most of their food like a lot of western countries do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now