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Prokharkoo84

Lessons to be learnt from the Khalistan Movement

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Sant Harchand Singh Longowal dictator of the dharma yudh morcha was killed by Sikh extremist for signing a deal with Rajiv Gandhi.

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26 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

Sant Harchand Singh Longowal dictator of the dharma yudh morcha was killed by Sikh extremist for signing a deal with Rajiv Gandhi.

Longowal was killed for selling himself to Rajiv Gandhi. He turned his back on the Anandpur Resolution and made a deal with Gandhi. Longowal was a traitor to the quom and was killed by Sikh youth, not extremists. How would you feel if your Thiyah or Chacha promised you the world whilst your Dad was alive, and when your Dad left this earth sold out on you and your family? Dont think you would be happy.

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Vaarchiree as far as I know never got executed. Nor was there anyone around to do so.

Zaffarwal issues with Manochahal. He's a smart man, he knows where they got played against each other. He has never again opposed Manochahal from what I know. Baba Manochahal was THE ultimate Singh.

Bittu, I refuse to make judgements, too controversial. But, please expand on your point regarding Bhai Deepa, I've known people from his pind, other associates too, but never heard a bad word. What are you referring too bro?

 

Sukhdev Singh Babbar, I've tried asking Babbars, since Singh was living lavish in Patiala, but they refuse to speak. Not saying he was a snake, Im hoping it was part of the disguise.

 

You're right about a lot though bro.

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42 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

Sant Harchand Singh Longowal dictator of the dharma yudh morcha was killed by Sikh extremist for signing a deal with Rajiv Gandhi.

He had it coming. Him, ramuwalia etc all took govt protection, sat there eating Sholay putaray while Singh's died. During June 1984. 

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Guys like Mann, Bittu, Zaffarwal, I hope they just realized there was no point in fighting with the AK anymore. Guys like Virsa Valtoha however I believe like 100's of others sold out, to some extent. 

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9 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Vaarchiree as far as I know never got executed. Nor was there anyone around to do so.

Zaffarwal issues with Manochahal. He's a smart man, he knows where they got played against each other. He has never again opposed Manochahal from what I know. Baba Manochahal was THE ultimate Singh.

Bittu, I refuse to make judgements, too controversial. But, please expand on your point regarding Bhai Deepa, I've known people from his pind, other associates too, but never heard a bad word. What are you referring too bro?

 

Sukhdev Singh Babbar, I've tried asking Babbars, since Singh was living lavish in Patiala, but they refuse to speak. Not saying he was a snake, Im hoping it was part of the disguise.

 

You're right about a lot though bro.

Regarding Sukhdev Singh Babbar, I agree it was part of the disguise as he kept operations moving from within Punjab until 92, which in itself was hard. I believe he married one of the Nabey waliyah bibiyah during this time, which tbh I dont know the full story about so hard to judge. Either way, once again his Kurbani is massive too. Do you know why or what differences he had with Talwinder Singh Babbar? I have even heard that Talwinder Singh was not part of the AKJ?

 

Bittu - I agree to hard to make a call, he was the brains behind a lot of moves and I am sure he wasnt a tout. But under the pressure these lot were under, combined with their young age and influence of people of Dr Sohan Sio, mistakes could have easily been made.

Vaincheree - I had a feeling he probably got away with it, doubt there was anyone left to get a badla on him. There are a lot of people in Sikhi saroop in Punjab even today with the blood of a lot of Singhs on their hands. My pind taxi driver always says - you either lost everything during the Sangaarsh or you made it all (referring to the touts).

Gurdeep Singh Deepa Heran - Highly rated by the majority like you said bro, I was making reference to things like him being popular with the ladies. Like I said earlier, not all Kharkoos were Gursikh, the guy was a young man who gave his all to a cause. Regardless of whether this was true about the girlfriends or not, the guy was a proper soldier and gave everything. I beleive he was killed a few days prior to leaving for Canada?

Quote of the day - Baba Manochahal was THE ultimate Singh - 10000%!!!

 

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On 05/08/2017 at 7:31 PM, HarfunMaula said:

A few points come to mind.

  1. The 'social reformist' (samaj sudhaar) activities carried out by the Kharkoos were unnecessary and gave adverse effects to their objective of attaining a sovereign state. These include:
    * forcing women (including news anchors) to wear dupattas
    * threatening and murdering artists (even if they were vulgar like Chamkila)
    * banning the sale of alcohol, tobacco and meat, attacking liquor vendors, barbers, butchers, ...
    * disallowing music at weddings
    * banning saris, cosmetics for women, ...

    Just like any other action it did have positive sides too, the simple marriage ceremonies came with a ban on dowries but enforcing a 'moral code' is not the Sikh way and it alienated not only the non Sikhs but also the 'moderate' Sikhs. 
  2. There was an immense amount of infighting among the kharkoos due to various reasons, including theological, personal and territorial disputes. The DDT and AKJ had at times taken to violent ways to enforce their viewpoints during the movement. Sikhs need to learn to put personal differences away and unite against a common enemy as was shown historically by the Misls.
  3. The intentional targeting of Hindus and families of police officials. While a lot of killings of Hindus were done by the govt under false flag operations to malign the Kharkoo movement, one cannot deny that several Sikhs were deliberately targeting Hindus and the families of police officials. Collateral damage is likely during guerilla warfare but these kind of acts are against our Sikh ideology, no matter what the circumstances are. 

 

 

1. It was a time of danger for all sikhs , and those going in groom's parties were more likely to be stopped and harassed by police even disappeared. My Mama ji(army)  was married during this era and I remember wedding parties were minimal , two cars . it was a stressful time waiting  for them to come back . There was music and traditional dancing inside the homes at that time there wasn't all this kanjarpana at weddings , no marriage palaces, dancers, very few singers (this was a not even a trend).

Women wore dupattas with their suits still , what is wrong with covering your head as a female , sikh guys do it's called a turban? You need to understand your heritage, it is NOT our heritage to behave like western tramps . self-respect is something.

Kharkoos didn't ban make-up and saris , stop making up stuff , they may have suggested that sikh bibian should wear simple and tan dhakan vale khaparde...remember this is coming during the years of 'shudi karan ' operations . Any fool can criticise without thinking about the realities of life back then.

Sikhs don't enforce a moral code ...err really what do you think that Guru Pita ji spent his time giving us, and told us to remind our forgetful bretheren? 

These so called enforcements were purely the rehit and codes that Guru ji had given us -  sikhs should not go in large parties to weddings but only in as large a group that the girl's family can afford to look after comfortably so as to not exploit them. To never ask for daaj. To not celebrate khushi with meat and alcohol, or profane/lewd songs.

Really if non-sikhs didn't appreciate the no daaj rules obviously they were out to fleece the girl's family. I have not heard of any sikh/kharkoo interfere with weddings of non-sikhs maybe you can furnish with something to back up claims.

2. back up your claim against both groups...

3. If police officials could kidnap and rape family members of kharkoos like Goldie's sister on her wedding day, fair play they shouldn't be surprised at the retaliation on themselves , which innocents (family member meaning girls, children wives, parents) have kharkoo attack for definite ?

Kharkoos did deliver justice for the people who couldn't trust the police at all , and people were wary of riling them for no cause e.g. harassment on buses which could be handled by the girl discreetly was.(own experience) . I know what happened to rapists , 2 guys got sorted in my nanake whilst I was there.

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8 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

Guys like Mann, Bittu, Zaffarwal, I hope they just realized there was no point in fighting with the AK anymore. Guys like Virsa Valtoha however I believe like 100's of others sold out, to some extent. 

Valtoha - i was watching an interview of his on Youtube, whilst yeah could say he sold out, he still semms to have that pyar for Sant Ji. He is another one that its easy for us to cuss sat in our homes in the UK Canada etc, but he did a lot in his jawani aswell. 

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19 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I am not saying sikhs were not killed, but we can't deny butchering of hindus 

yep the real estimate is about 200-300 hindu for the whole period from 1980 until 2000 (taken from official records) unlike the oft-quoted 35,000 by BJP and hinduvta bunch.

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17 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

Regarding Sukhdev Singh Babbar, I agree it was part of the disguise as he kept operations moving from within Punjab until 92, which in itself was hard. I believe he married one of the Nabey waliyah bibiyah during this time, which tbh I dont know the full story about so hard to judge. Either way, once again his Kurbani is massive too. Do you know why or what differences he had with Talwinder Singh Babbar? I have even heard that Talwinder Singh was not part of the AKJ?

 

Bittu - I agree to hard to make a call, he was the brains behind a lot of moves and I am sure he wasnt a tout. But under the pressure these lot were under, combined with their young age and influence of people of Dr Sohan Sio, mistakes could have easily been made.

Vaincheree - I had a feeling he probably got away with it, doubt there was anyone left to get a badla on him. There are a lot of people in Sikhi saroop in Punjab even today with the blood of a lot of Singhs on their hands. My pind taxi driver always says - you either lost everything during the Sangaarsh or you made it all (referring to the touts).

Gurdeep Singh Deepa Heran - Highly rated by the majority like you said bro, I was making reference to things like him being popular with the ladies. Like I said earlier, not all Kharkoos were Gursikh, the guy was a young man who gave his all to a cause. Regardless of whether this was true about the girlfriends or not, the guy was a proper soldier and gave everything. I beleive he was killed a few days prior to leaving for Canada?

Quote of the day - Baba Manochahal was THE ultimate Singh - 10000%!!!

 

I don't think Parmar was ever part of AKJ. I think mostly they beefed because one was primarily overseas, while other was on front lines. Ego kicks in. People deny it, but I'm VERY sure Sukhdev Babbar and Sant Ji had conflict too. 

Vaarchiree is most likely still out there in the same pind.

I wouldn't ever oppose Deepa over him being popular with ladies, not saying you're doing that, respect is respect. He was Doab da sher.

10 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

Valtoha - i was watching an interview of his on Youtube, whilst yeah could say he sold out, he still semms to have that pyar for Sant Ji. He is another one that its easy for us to cuss sat in our homes in the UK Canada etc, but he did a lot in his jawani aswell. 

You're right bro, he still shows love, I just feel like something is off though. 

 

 

As forJKV sisters posts, I disagree with 99.9%, it's all biased and emotion driven. They did everything you deny. Speak to those who lived through it. Reform only works through will, not force. 

 

There is no way on earth only 200-300 Hindus died in those 2 decades.

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon
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On 8/6/2017 at 0:33 PM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Sometimes I wonder if we as a community are in the mess today that we're in because of killing of innocent hindus in 80's 

Like you know the stories of khadkoos bringing out hindus from buses and killing them .And hindu murders elsewhere in punjab back then. 

Whose side you even on? 

1 hour ago, Dsinghdp said:

Sant Harchand Singh Longowal dictator of the dharma yudh morcha was killed by Sikh extremist for signing a deal with Rajiv Gandhi.

He turned against the singhs. They aint extremists. They did what he deserved. 

As to khalistan, realistically i feel it wouldnt work. Not in todays circumstances anyway. Look at the panth, who actually thinks we are capable of having civil conversations and talk with daleel and be understanding when it comes to panthic matters? I dont feel we are ready. As a panth. I cannot see it happening. Khalistan wont bring unity. 

Khoon ka badla, jkvlondon isnt wrong. Are we not all somewhat emotionally driven? Yes i agree we cant force people, but singhs didnt exactly force. You had to adhere to the rules. Thats all. 

How will everyone willingly reform? People will follow rules set by good panthic leadership. If we give people a choice, most likely they will still want to continue with alcohol etc. They are not willingly going to say 'lets ban alcohol'. 

Again, i just dont see it working. Solution is we need parchar. We all become khalse first.

 

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12 minutes ago, JS79 said:

.

Khoon ka badla, jkvlondon isnt wrong. Are we not all somewhat emotionally driven? Yes i agree we cant force people, but singhs didnt exactly force. You had to adhere to the rules. Thats all. 

 

Ajeet is likely a blinded Punjab born Sikh or Hindu.

And people will go by rehat If there is good parchar, not force. Sant Ji didn't force a single soul and God knows how many people turned to Sikhi. He event kept non keshdhari/amritdhari with him, and NEVER forced them to full Gursikh. He knew what'd eventually win over them.

Its unfortunate, but the Singhs did do a lot forceful <banned word filter activated> with the local populace. 

 

 

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon
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1 hour ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I don't think Parmar was ever part of AKJ. I think mostly they beefed because one was primarily overseas, while other was on front lines. Ego kicks in. People deny it, but I'm VERY sure Sukhdev Babbar and Sant Ji had conflict too. 

Vaarchiree is most likely still out there in the same pind.

I wouldn't ever oppose Deepa over him being popular with ladies, not saying you're doing that, respect is respect. He was Doab da sher.

You're right bro, he still shows love, I just feel like something is off though. 

 

I wouldnt ever disrespect any of the Kharkoos, no matter what their personal lifestyle was like. None of us are angels and its easy to pick faults in the lads who gave everything, particularly 20 odd years later. 

 

I agree that ego would have been an issue, its like putting 5 lads together now and there is also gona be confilict, regardless of how spirtual each claims to be. 

 It is funny you say something seems off with Valtoha, I get that impression aswell but still gotta rate the dude in his hey day. 

 

Bro do you know much about Harjinder Singh Para's shaheedi?

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27 minutes ago, Prokharkoo84 said:

I wouldnt ever disrespect any of the Kharkoos, no matter what their personal lifestyle was like. None of us are angels and its easy to pick faults in the lads who gave everything, particularly 20 odd years later. 

 

I agree that ego would have been an issue, its like putting 5 lads together now and there is also gona be confilict, regardless of how spirtual each claims to be. 

 It is funny you say something seems off with Valtoha, I get that impression aswell but still gotta rate the dude in his hey day. 

 

Bro do you know much about Harjinder Singh Para's shaheedi?

I agree too, Virsa Singh was frontline in his days. Perhaps we are just paranoid.

 

And, no, nothing bro. I don't think he was set up at all.

Parmar Singh is real controversial too, people say he was an agent etc. But, I've met and seen his kids, the local Khalistan community loves them. If he was an agent, I believe they'd be outcasted by them. Other factors too I wont mention.

 

Not sure if I have said this, but after speaking with people who followed and lived side by side with the movement. Mann Saab was the one who started the flow of the weapons to Singh's at darbar sahib. While he worked as a high ranking cop.

Edited by KhoonKaBadlaKhoon

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3 hours ago, Dsinghdp said:

Sant Harchand Singh Longowal dictator of the dharma yudh morcha was killed by Sikh extremist for signing a deal with Rajiv Gandhi.

Not a single thing from that deal (deal between Rajiv and Longowal) was implemented, so tell me how was this deal good for Sikhs. 

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