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It is extremely painful to write your own brother’s obituary but it is the only form of expression I have

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Sukhvirk1976    197
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

considering he blocked me after I told him to leave sikhs alone to their beliefs  last year, doesn't surprise me at all, he almost suggests that Bhai Sahib's enthusiasm for sikhi was a mistake and made his first marriage fail, created unhappiness in the family...sad really.

I don't think he ever had any issues with his enthusiasm but rather the approach 

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Ranjeet01    1,144
2 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I'm very capable of reading between the lines and deconstructing text.. But there is reading btw the lines and fanciful leaps of imagination. And I think the accusations made against the writer fall in to the latter. 

I'd be happy to revise my opinion if someone demonstrates how they form those assumptions from that article 

It comes from seeing the way the brothers have interacted over the years  on social media as well as mainstream media.

You build up quite an idea of what the dynamic is between the brothers as well as from plenty of personal life experience. 

My suspicion was that Jagraj was clearly the alpha male in their family and the more popular one who got all the girls. 

Sunny admits that in his post therefore he confirmed my suspicion. 

When you hear Jagraj speak, look how charismatic he was. Compare Sunny in his speech, no contest. It is clear that more girls would be attracted to him. 

I can imagine that there was a lot of sibling rivalry between the two. It is quite common for siblings (particular two brothers with a small age gap) to argue and fight.

With the intermarriage issue, Jagraj was blocked from Sunny's facebook page but it did not stop Sunny from going on Jagraj's page and starting an argument. Jagraj told him to stop because he was making a mockery of their family. 

You'd think that Jagraj was the elder brother because he was clearly the more mature one.

This is from my observations over the last few years.

 

 

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jkvlondon    3,498
1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I don't think he ever had any issues with his enthusiasm but rather the approach 

jagraj never made any bones about his brother's choices , it doesn't go the other way this self-advertising atheist was very vocal against sikhs who were making an effort towards helping sikhi spread through sewa and parchaar. He even criticised sikhs for speaking against grooming trying to diminish the girls suffering which we came to words about on  a personal level. why is it every non-sikh thinks they have a stake in defining how sikhs should believe and be ? 

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StarStriker    1,009

I always remember on scummy hundals fb page, at the height of the sham marriage fiasco's, how he distinctively calling his own brother, jagraj, a fundamentalist...pathetic! 

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jkvlondon    3,498
28 minutes ago, StarStriker said:

I always remember on scummy hundals fb page, at the height of the sham marriage fiasco's, how he distinctively calling his own brother, jagraj, a fundamentalist...pathetic! 

best leave him to his karma , let's not carry his tokara of paap on our heads by repeating his bad actions and bad mouthing him .

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Sukhvirk1976    197
2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It comes from seeing the way the brothers have interacted over the years  on social media as well as mainstream media.

You build up quite an idea of what the dynamic is between the brothers as well as from plenty of personal life experience. 

My suspicion was that Jagraj was clearly the alpha male in their family and the more popular one who got all the girls. 

Sunny admits that in his post therefore he confirmed my suspicion. 

When you hear Jagraj speak, look how charismatic he was. Compare Sunny in his speech, no contest. It is clear that more girls would be attracted to him. 

I can imagine that there was a lot of sibling rivalry between the two. It is quite common for siblings (particular two brothers with a small age gap) to argue and fight.

With the intermarriage issue, Jagraj was blocked from Sunny's facebook page but it did not stop Sunny from going on Jagraj's page and starting an argument. Jagraj told him to stop because he was making a mockery of their family. 

You'd think that Jagraj was the elder brother because he was clearly the more mature one.

This is from my observations over the last few years.

 

 

He quite clearly acknowledges in his article that jugraj was charismatic and 'cooler' than him... I saw nothing malicious in that expression other than quite a honest appraisal of their relationship.. He also acknowledged that they had differences and what the basis of those differences were.. Furthermore he acknowledged and commends what his brother achieved even though he ideologically disagreed with the 'methods' or the goals of the project.. 

How do you know that he blocked jugraj? Do you have evidence of that, I actually find that quite hard to believe. as ethically as a journalist sunny is very good, I may disagree with many of his opinions and may find that I don't agree with them but that has more to do with his analysis of facts and not to do with any perceived inherent bias.. 

I personally have lots of respect for jugraj Singh and his passion and love for guru sahib however I definitely disagree with many of the views he promoted and took issue with many things professed in some of his videos as well as the political nature of the everything 13 project.. I was blocked by basic of sikhi a number of times for asking questions.. I understand what they were trying to do but had serious reservations about the way they were doing it and still do.. However I don't question that they believe they are acting with  the best of intentions.. It's just that good intentions are enough always. 

In addition I also believe that as Sikhs, we have a duty to criticise and to be critical is a part of khoj.. Guru arjun Dev Ji demanded it of us! People see the word 'critical' as something negative but it is not.. To be critical is to ask and raise questions, highlight contradictions, find fault in logic.. Not to undermine someone but to go deeper and deeper until there are no more questions and you have the truth.. 

Being critical is not the same as what many people here do when they slander and dismiss people.. Critical analysis is substantiated and specific... It is fundamental to Sikhism and our Gurus saw it as necessary part of khoj.. 

Nindya is not critical analysis. 

 

BTW I really appreciate your response...  it is this very type of dialogue that we should be able to engage in.. We don't have to agree with each other all the time but if we talk about how we have formed our opinions and what they are based on we atleast create the environment for participants to look at different perspectives, their is lots you have shared with me to consider and reevaluate my own thoughts and opinions and see whether the logic behind them is flawed or still stand true. 

SAT SRI AKAL! 

 

 

Edited by Sukhvirk1976
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Sukhvirk1976    197
2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

jagraj never made any bones about his brother's choices , it doesn't go the other way this self-advertising atheist was very vocal against sikhs who were making an effort towards helping sikhi spread through sewa and parchaar. He even criticised sikhs for speaking against grooming trying to diminish the girls suffering which we came to words about on  a personal level. why is it every non-sikh thinks they have a stake in defining how sikhs should believe and be ? 

How do you define non-sikh? 

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Ranjeet01    1,144
1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

He quite clearly acknowledges in his article that jugraj was charismatic and 'cooler' than him... I saw nothing malicious in that expression other than quite a honest appraisal of their relationship.. He also acknowledged that they had differences and what the basis of those differences were.. Furthermore he acknowledged and commends what his brother achieved even though he ideologically disagreed with the 'methods' or the goals of the project.. 

How do you know that he blocked jugraj? Do you have evidence of that, I actually find that quite hard to believe. as ethically as a journalist sunny is very good, I may disagree with many of his opinions and may find that I don't agree with them but that has more to do with his analysis of facts and not to do with any perceived inherent bias.. 

I personally have lots of respect for jugraj Singh and his passion and love for guru sahib however I definitely disagree with many of the views he promoted and took issue with many things professed in some of his videos as well as the political nature of the everything 13 project.. I was blocked by basic of sikhi a number of times for asking questions.. I understand what they were trying to do but had serious reservations about the way they were doing it and still do.. However I don't question that they believe they are acting with  the best of intentions.. It's just that good intentions are enough always. 

In addition I also believe that as Sikhs, we have a duty to criticise and to be critical is a part of khoj.. Guru arjun Dev Ji demanded it of us! People see the word 'critical' as something negative but it is not.. To be critical is to ask and raise questions, highlight contradictions, find fault in logic.. Not to undermine someone but to go deeper and deeper until there are no more questions and you have the truth.. 

Being critical is not the same as what many people here do when they slander and dismiss people.. Critical analysis is substantiated and specific... It is fundamental to Sikhism and our Gurus saw it as necessary part of khoj.. 

Nindya is not critical analysis. 

 

BTW I really appreciate your response...  it is this very type of dialogue that we should be able to engage in.. We don't have to agree with each other all the time but if we talk about how we have formed our opinions and what they are based on we atleast create the environment for participants to look at different perspectives, their is lots you have shared with me to consider and reevaluate my own thoughts and opinions and see whether the logic behind them is flawed or still stand true. 

SAT SRI AKAL! 

 

 

I know he was blocked because I saw he mentioned it on his Facebook page. It was all over social media.

There were thousands of people who saw it as well.

Jagraj did not like the squabble in public because as he quoted to Sunny as I recall , " You are making an @ss of us". He was quite embarrassed. 

Personally I would not call what Basics of Sikhi does political anyway.

 

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Sukhvirk1976    197
5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I know he was blocked because I saw he mentioned it on his Facebook page. It was all over social media.

There were thousands of people who saw it as well.

Jagraj did not like the squabble in public because as he quoted to Sunny as I recall , " You are making an @ss of us". He was quite embarrassed. 

Personally I would not call what Basics of Sikhi does political anyway.

 

It is part of the everything 13 project which is clearly political in its outlook? 

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Ranjeet01    1,144
1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

It is part of the everything 13 project which is clearly political in its outlook? 

How so? Please provide examples.

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kangw    53

Very sad news. He did huge sewa in the name of sikhi. He will be missed by everyone. So very sad.

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jkvlondon    3,498
On 09/08/2017 at 4:32 AM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

How do you define non-sikh? 

muslims. governments, hindus , christians , atheists the list is long 

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jkvlondon    3,498
Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

That's not a definition 

someone who neither believes in Guru Granth  Sahib, the Ten Guru Sahiban's message and writings , doesn't keep rehit of a sikh as mentioned in SRM , doesn't frequent any gurudwara, dharamshala of sikh religion and has a totally seperate philosophical or religious outlook on life . Anyone who is antithetical to sikhi at all levels

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