The Masands were also going out and physically committing violence, which included rapes, murders, etc, it's not mere words or committing victimless crimes. I have already stated that when things get violent, then violence can be used, you are bringing up the masands as a strawman fallacy to muddy the waters.
Saying that Sikhs should not assassinate people for victimless crimes and not answer non violence with violence is manmat? Can you show me of any Gurbani or History from the Guru that shows the Guru assassinating people for non physical, victimless crimes?
People like you, who aren't willing to sit down and have an intellectual discussion, and just pull out a kirpan on those they disagree with are the problem in the panth. You can't just advocate violence against everyone you disagree with, you are very unreasonable.
I formally challenge you to a debate to prove your argument using Gurbani and history from the Guru, will you accept?
Can we try to pinpoint the specific issues, so that we can learn from them in the future. Lack of unity is definitely an issue they led to the downfall, however exactly between which parties? People often blame the Dogra's, however lets forget the "Sikhs" who also killed Ranjit Singh's successors.
I have also heard there was some tension between the more orthodox Sikhs of the Jatha's and the more cultural Sikhs.
Aside from the Dogra's, who else was responsible for the betrayal? and what where their motivations?
This is a really strong point, we have to make sure that even the lowest of the low in terms of parties isnt interested in treachery, and truly need to focus on the lower denominator.
Guest Sinner Jee,
we are all sinners in higher or lesser measure, but we are sinners, that is for sure.
You taking 2 steps forward and then some back, well that is not new also, so are we all also not better than you, some are even worse, they call them sikhs, but they go on bullying and enjoy troubling people, inflating their ego...
So come on, you are not that bad, at least you do not hurt the feelings of others.
You must bear in mind, that you go to the Guru Dwaras, to listen the keertan and kathas, the wadeayee of Guru Jee, not to mingle with people, so do not get disheartened if they the people want to stay away from you, that is their problem.
People do change with times, just as their state of mind changes, what else can the poor people do? It is in their nature to change, sometimes for good, some for bad. You see, as long as men are under the control of the trickery mind, they are bound to change helplessly.
Maybe, Wahiguru wants to make you stronger right from just now. You know what, when we shall leave this eartly plane, we shall go all alone by ourselves, only He and His bhakti shall only go with us.
Then you should also know, that Guru Jee has never ever stopped loving you, He cares for you, just as for any of His jeev atmas; the thing is, most of us have turned our faces away from Him, so we feel lost.
He is like the Sun, giving His light and warmth to all equally, whosoever is faced towards Him, independent of any distinctions of color, class, gender, or being a sinner or a saint.
Just as the Sun can not change its nature, so is Wahiguru Akal Purukh. He is so generous, that He overlooks all our sins, nor does He judge anybody.
If ever we find ourselves strayed, it is because our own karam, our planted seeds, which give us the fruits according to those of our very own karam.
We are all weak and dumb, and shameless to the extent, that we even blame Him, when He is nothing but an Infinite ocean of love and mercy.
Our Guru Sahiban have beautifully described Him as : Aad Sach, Jugad sach, Hae Bhee Sach, Nanak hosee bhee Sach.
You see, He is changeless, He has been truly an endless fountain of Infinite love, right from the very beginning, He has been changelessly so during all the Yugas, He is changeless even now, and He shall remain changeless in His swaroop of Pyaar, for the the endless time.
You see, unlike us, or gods and goddesses,He is pure always, for He has no mind, He is all purity, love and mercy, so it is baseless to accuse Him of not loving us, or Him stop loving us, for only under the influence of mind does one change or waver.
We can put caps on the bottles, but no one can ever put a cap on the ocean. This is the case of a limited material ocean.
So then, how can anything be put on Him, who is an Infinite Ocean of Love and mercy, in order to make Him stop pouring out His love ?
The very fact, that He loves you, is that you are not satisfied with life, and are still looking ahead for His love. Believe it, if it was not for Him, one could not even think of Him. It is more about his pull from within yourself, than any amount of efforts of yours to come near Him.
Just a small benti, please never ever blame or accuse Sachay Patshah Wahiguru Akal Purukh, whether willingly or unintentionally.
It is the biggest injustice, that one can commit, not only towards Him, but towards oneself, for we are turning our faces away from Him; and we all know what happens then; man, maya, kal, yam doots, have all the freedom given by us to them, to keep us trapped in this mayavee creation .
Do His Simran / japna, as much as possible whether you feel you enjoy it or not, just keep going on, He is our anchor, and without this bhakti, there is no way for no one.
Sat Sree Akal.
LOL you are completely deluded. Please read some itihaas.
The corrupt masands met their end by being thrown into boiling oil as per guru ji's hukam.
You are just attempting to spread your manmat, so please stop talking nonsense before you embarrass yourself further.
What's even worse is that people give into the fear-mongering and do not even consider that God has given us everything and his creation is perfect. Vaccines go on the notion that God missed something out and did not create us perfectly, so we must take a company's product in order to make up for this shortcoming.
It's ironic that people are so scared about their health that they are running to the things that will destroy it!