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Dhunda VS Dandrianwala


Jonny101
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41 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Either you do not seek answers but want to prove dhumma is good, or you are genuinely not getting anything we are saying. 

 

I'm not here to prove anything. I say it as it is. But I suspect that you are not being honest here. I have asked several times already. Yet you like to insult others.

 

 

41 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Point of the 5 singh sakhi, the moral is that we should seek to do darshan of maharaj through tyar bartyar chardikala singhs if we wish.

 

OK, so its gone from 1 Singh to 5 Singh now has it?

 

41 minutes ago, JS79 said:

You said kps gill is sabat surat. I made the comparison why your response is random.

 

You said that Sikhs being sabat soorat is the best. Iasked you if sabat soorat people like i listed were included.

 

41 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Your remark about being humble. We can br humble and have anakh and courage to speak up. Being humble doesnt mean keeping your hesd down and being apologetic. 

 

Where is your anakh concerning the missionaries? You are very observant of what Baba harnam Singh does yet asleep when it comes to what the missionaries are doing. Or maybe you are supporting them but are afraid of being open about it?

 

41 minutes ago, JS79 said:

The best to me are the ones who are above the jathebandis and break free from the rituals. The best are who put panth at the heart of everything and live according to gurbani. Not according to personal maryadas. 

 

OK, so where does the maryada at parmeshardwar come from? Is that a personal maryada?

 

Baba harnam Singh DID put the panth before everything, and you insulted him.

 

42 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Badal came to Dhumma? Doesnt look like it.

 

Well that tells me how little you know. yet you giving it so much.

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50 minutes ago, chatanga said:

OK so Professor Sarbjit Singh Khalsa deliberately twisting the story of Guru Gobind Singh baal-leela and making Guru Sahib out to be some pervert isn't worse. Insulting your own Guru, that's not bad in your view.

 

 

No I dont get the story. Where have you got it from?

 

If only 1 Singh was necessary then Guru Sahib could have stopped at one head on Vaisakhi. There was  reason for five.

 

 

Im not talking about Shaheeds. Im talking about people who are sabat soorat as you said in your post. You never mentioned shaheeds, only sabat soorat people.

Now you want to bring shaheeds into it.

 

You say you a "humble little searcher who is starving for knowledge" but then say this :

 

That doesn't rate as humble.

 

The best are those who wanted to portray Guru Sahib's baal-leela as some kind of perversion to you? The best to you are those that lied in Guru's sangat and said that it is against SRM to read to sing bani of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib in sangat?

 

If they are the best to you stay with the best and if those who oppose the nindya of their Guru and outright lies concerning Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib are mules, then I'm happy to be associated with mules.

 

 

Because jameer/conscience can tell you to do one thing, but the greater achievement for the panth tells you to do another.

 

The Sikhs weren't  beggars of the Moghals that they accepted a jagir and Nawabgi from Zakria Khan. They put their own thoughts/conscience to one side and saw the benefits of accepting the jagir and Nawabgi. Those Sikhs are not traitors to the Panth.

 

Baba  Harnam Singh did not go to the badals to get anything. It was them who came to him. They were the ones who needed him. Harnam Singh put aside his feelings/conscience for the betterment of the Panth. Look at what was achieved from it, 40 members in the SGPC, Gurdwara Shaheedan in Darbar Sahib, and restarting of Dasam Bani from Delhi gurdwaras. If if Harnam Singh is pictured with ladoos, I dont care as the greater good has been started for the Panth. If Harnam Singh refused Badals then what of these could have been acheived? But would that have been ok and the 10% of the Panth that thinks as we do, would still be a corner grumbling about how we can't change anything.

 

You speak

56 minutes ago, chatanga said:

OK so Professor Sarbjit Singh Khalsa deliberately twisting the story of Guru Gobind Singh baal-leela and making Guru Sahib out to be some pervert isn't worse. Insulting your own Guru, that's not bad in your view.

 

 

No I dont get the story. Where have you got it from?

 

If only 1 Singh was necessary then Guru Sahib could have stopped at one head on Vaisakhi. There was  reason for five.

 

 

Im not talking about Shaheeds. Im talking about people who are sabat soorat as you said in your post. You never mentioned shaheeds, only sabat soorat people.

Now you want to bring shaheeds into it.

 

You say you a "humble little searcher who is starving for knowledge" but then say this :

 

That doesn't rate as humble.

 

The best are those who wanted to portray Guru Sahib's baal-leela as some kind of perversion to you? The best to you are those that lied in Guru's sangat and said that it is against SRM to read to sing bani of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib in sangat?

 

If they are the best to you stay with the best and if those who oppose the nindya of their Guru and outright lies concerning Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib are mules, then I'm happy to be associated with mules.

 

 

Because jameer/conscience can tell you to do one thing, but the greater achievement for the panth tells you to do another.

 

The Sikhs weren't  beggars of the Moghals that they accepted a jagir and Nawabgi from Zakria Khan. They put their own thoughts/conscience to one side and saw the benefits of accepting the jagir and Nawabgi. Those Sikhs are not traitors to the Panth.

 

Baba  Harnam Singh did not go to the badals to get anything. It was them who came to him. They were the ones who needed him. Harnam Singh put aside his feelings/conscience for the betterment of the Panth. Look at what was achieved from it, 40 members in the SGPC, Gurdwara Shaheedan in Darbar Sahib, and restarting of Dasam Bani from Delhi gurdwaras. If if Harnam Singh is pictured with ladoos, I dont care as the greater good has been started for the Panth. If Harnam Singh refused Badals then what of these could have been acheived? But would that have been ok and the 10% of the Panth that thinks as we do, would still be a corner grumbling about how we can't change anything.

 

You speak some really bad words about Baba Harnam Singh. Wise up.

 really bad words about Baba Harnam Singh. Wise up.

bro 

it is true that EVERY Singh rejected the jagir even Kapur SIngh because they didn't recognise the power of the Mughals above Guru ji and had no desire for anything other than Guru ji's charan? Until Kapur SIngh was promised by sangat that it would not interfere with his sewa of the panth he accepted the jagir.

nawab Kapur Singh achieved so much because of his full faith in Guru ji and his khalsa soch not because of a jagir, he fought against Zakhiriya's forces prior to and afterwards, only two years was there a truce in that 2 years Nawab Kapur Singh organised sikh forces into the Buddha and Taruna dal then later still the Taruna into 5 smaller jathe. He did not get fooled once that the governing bodies were benign benefactors ...nothing has changed Badal has been guilty of stealing from Guru ji's golak interfering with gurdwarey running , land grabbing etc all for personal aggrandisment and this is the person suitable to sit at the feet of ? 

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15 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

This is like watching two little kids who hate each other fight, each thinking he's superior to the other. 

Don't know why you would want to join the minor conversation.

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18 hours ago, JS79 said:

Thing is can support who i want without being middionary.

Course you can. I'm not a taksali and I don't support Taksal over everything. But where I do support or disagree with them I'm open about it. You aren't. It's very easy to find the objectionable comments by Professor Sarabjit Singh Khalsa in YouTube.

 

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

The 5 singh story is the story about sharda.

I know what it is, but you were starting with 1 Singh then moved onto 5 Singhs.

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

I think you were being sarcastic listing kps gill etc.

Well you were the one who said that being sabat soorat makes one a Sikh.

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

There is hope with missionaries. If they have made mistakes there is hope.

Hope with the missionaries?

What hope is there with the Head Professor of their college who wrote that Guru Nanak Dev Ji ate halal meat at Mecca ?

 

What hope is there for the Missionary College whose Professor said that "Guru Nanak hid in bushes for 3 days in River Bein at Sultanpur Lodhi so he could work out his next step."?

 

What hope is there for the Professor of this college who wrote that Guru Nanak never gave gurgaddi to anyone and Bhai Lehna took it by force?

 

I don't what kind of ability you have that, you can say these people can change.

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

People who do will know they promote akal takht maryada. That is A panthic maryada.

The Panthic Maryada was never accpeted by the Panth. It was forced on the panth as a temporary maryada that was still to be raitified. Well guess what? The SGPC haven't been able to ratify it in over 70 years. How could 4 people sit in a meeting and decide the maryada and then implement it by force?

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

Atleast it gets us all on onr platform!

But it hasn't though has it? We are not on one platform. We never WERE on one platform.

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

Dhumma wants taksal maryada at akal takht

Be a Sikh ! Be. A. Sikh.

Stop lying.

 

18 hours ago, JS79 said:

We could continue this but yout beliefs wont change mine and mine wont change yours. 

 

And that is the tragedy. I'm open about my beleifs and willing to discuss them with you, but you are still under a cloud of secrecy about the missionaries.

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17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

bro 

it is true that EVERY Singh rejected the jagir even Kapur SIngh because they didn't recognise the power of the Mughals above Guru ji and had no desire for anything other than Guru ji's charan? Until Kapur SIngh was promised by sangat that it would not interfere with his sewa of the panth he accepted the jagir.

 

If EVERY Singh had rejected the jagir, then how on earth did it end up being accepted? There were some who as you say didn't want the jagir because they they want to recognise the hakumat of the Moghals. Then there were others who said that short-term peace with the moghals will be to our benefit. The Sikhs had been skirmishing with Zakria for years and he was fed up of the constant warfare. He needed a break from it, but the Dal Panth also needed to recuperate themselves. This jagir came on the back of a anti-Sikh jehad in Panjab. It also brought in much needed money with which the Sikhs could strengthen their army. In the end the pros outweighed the cons and the Sikhs accepted the benefits of taking up Zakria's offer was better then rejection.

 

And remember that it was a Singh of the Guru who brought theproposal from Zakria? Does that mean we shouldn't remember this Singh in our Ardas now?

 

17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

 

nawab Kapur Singh achieved so much because of his full faith in Guru ji and his khalsa soch not because of a jagir, he fought against Zakhiriya's forces prior to and afterwards, only two years was there a truce in that 2 years Nawab Kapur Singh organised sikh forces into the Buddha and Taruna dal then later still the Taruna into 5 smaller jathe.

 

Well there you have to look at what you have written Sis. We know and call Nawab Kapur Singh by his title. No Sikh calls him Kapur Singh, The jagir didn't make any difference to Nawab Kapur Singh as a Sikh or to his Sikhi. But it sure gave him the opportunity to organise the Dal Panth into an even more effective fighting force.

 

And in the end I'm sure those Sikh who were against it would have realised that they were better off having accepted the moghals offer.

 

17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

He did not get fooled once that the governing bodies were benign benefactors ..

 

Do you seriously think that Harnam Singh doesn't know what Badals are?

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