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In Defense of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur

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The person in the video contradicted himself through the video. He proclaimed Baba Ji as a Brahmgyani (which he was) but at the same time said Baba Ji made a mistake with "Fateh Darshan" as a way of performing slang for the full Fateh, I sincerely doubt someone on that spiritual level would make any use of any form of slang, especially for something given by Guru Father. Which is it? Quite a portion of it seems contradictory to what was written a good few hundred years after Baba Ji's martyrdom in Suraj Parkash (bearing in mind Kavi Ji spent a good few decades researching and gathering information for it).

 

Baba Ji was an amazing leader, extremely powerful (spiritually and physically). Guru Sahib appointed him to a task but Baba Ji (according to Suraj Parkash Granth) also made mistakes (not destroying Sirhind like he was ordered to, turning on the Khalsa, insulting Guru Mata and so on) which resulted in God taking away his powers and might. In all honesty we need a proper historical re-evaluation of his fascinating history. Most definitely there's truth in Kavi Ji's words but at the same time there may be more to it all. 

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3 minutes ago, Kira said:

The person in the video contradicted himself through the video. He proclaimed Baba Ji as a Brahmgyani (which he was) but at the same time said Baba Ji made a mistake with "Fateh Darshan" as a way of performing slang for the full Fateh, I sincerely doubt someone on that spiritual level would make any use of any form of slang, especially for something given by Guru Father. Which is it? Quite a portion of it seems contradictory to what was written a good few hundred years after Baba Ji's martyrdom in Suraj Parkash (bearing in mind Kavi Ji spent a good few decades researching and gathering information for it).

 

Baba Ji was an amazing leader, extremely powerful (spiritually and physically). Guru Sahib appointed him to a task but Baba Ji (according to Suraj Parkash Granth) also made mistakes (not destroying Sirhind like he was ordered to, turning on the Khalsa, insulting Guru Mata and so on) which resulted in God taking away his powers and might. In all honesty we need a proper historical re-evaluation of his fascinating history. Most definitely there's truth in Kavi Ji's words but at the same time there may be more to it all. 

Bhangu's Panth Prakash is also a great source on Banda Singh Bahadhur. 

There is this strong tendency by many apnay to whitewash (essentially rewrite) history to make it inline with some sort of preconceived (usually romanticised) image they have in their head. I think this way of thinking stems from victorian/anglo/protestant christian values  from the colonial period (that people have imbibed), because prior to that, indigenous Sikh historiography had no problems with warts and all accounts of Sikh history. After the 'annexation' Sikh historians all of a sudden felt compelled to start rewriting/hiding stuff. After a century of that, we've ended up in a strange position where we are overly suspicious of our own pre-colonial literature and whilst our ancestors had no problem with the contents, people today struggle to accept them.  

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4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Bhangu's Panth Prakash is also a great source on Banda Singh Bahadhur. 

There is this strong tendency by many apnay to whitewash (essentially rewrite) history to make it inline with some sort of preconceived (usually romanticised) image they have in their head. I think this way of thinking stems from victorian/anglo/protestant christian values  from the colonial period (that people have imbibed), because prior to that, indigenous Sikh historiography had no problems with warts and all accounts of Sikh history. After the 'annexation' Sikh historians all of a sudden felt compelled to start rewriting/hiding stuff. After a century of that, we've ended up in a strange position where we are overly suspicious of our own pre-colonial literature and whilst our ancestors had no problem with the contents, people today struggle to accept them.  

Spot on mate!!!!

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8 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Bhangu's Panth Prakash is also a great source on Banda Singh Bahadhur. 

There is this strong tendency by many apnay to whitewash (essentially rewrite) history to make it inline with some sort of preconceived (usually romanticised) image they have in their head. I think this way of thinking stems from victorian/anglo/protestant christian values  from the colonial period (that people have imbibed), because prior to that, indigenous Sikh historiography had no problems with warts and all accounts of Sikh history. After the 'annexation' Sikh historians all of a sudden felt compelled to start rewriting/hiding stuff. After a century of that, we've ended up in a strange position where we are overly suspicious of our own pre-colonial literature and whilst our ancestors had no problem with the contents, people today struggle to accept them.  

100% right. The author of this hasn't quoted any sources whatsoever. I've not read Panth Prakash yet but its on my to do list.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Banda Singh Bahadur was a great man, but he was not perfect. Problems with this video is that it over-exerts his success without a fair and unbiased view. Simply being chosen by the light of God himself couldn't stop him, Bahadur Shah himself worked with Guru Sahib, so that would mean he's great as well, but we all know the history. Even the legendary blessed Damdami Taksal, an institution made by Guru Sahib himself, led by Mahapurukhs since Baba Deep Singh Ji to Baba Thakur Singh Ji is also far from perfection,( in modern day). People are going to do what feels right, rather than what's actually right.

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13 minutes ago, Kira said:

I've not read Panth Prakash yet but its on my to do list.

Dear Kira,

 

you can find panth Parkash on "scribd" app

Edited by Destruction

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1 minute ago, Destruction said:

Dear Kira,

 

you can find panth Parkash on "scribd" app

thanks bro, im aware :D. I just don't have the time right now haha.

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38 minutes ago, Kira said:

thanks bro, im aware :D. I just don't have the time right now haha.

The section on Banda Singh (at the end of volume one) will blow your mind. It isn't too long either. 

 

Here it is, for whenever you are ready:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/54832175/Vol-1-SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangoo-Trans-Kulwant-Singh

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8 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

The section on Banda Singh (at the end of volume one) will blow your mind. It isn't too long either. 

 

Here it is, for whenever you are ready:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/54832175/Vol-1-SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangoo-Trans-Kulwant-Singh

ill give it a smash before bedtime tonight.

 

 

Edit: I read a bit, this seems eerily familiar to me.

Edited by Kira

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On 7/14/2017 at 1:41 AM, dallysingh101 said:

The section on Banda Singh (at the end of volume one) will blow your mind. It isn't too long either. 

 

Here it is, for whenever you are ready:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/54832175/Vol-1-SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangoo-Trans-Kulwant-Singh

https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/in-the-age-of-the-sword/

 

 

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Finally, someone has done a good job in defending Baba Ji. Although I think they could have done even more but even a little bit is good in defending Baba Ji. many snatanis will not like this one bit. It is understandable since they have tried very hard to demonize Baba Ji with lies and pure Nindya. But Baba Banda Singh Bahadur is like the moon. Those who try to spit at the moon will soon regret it when their own spit lands back on their face.

People do not realize how much Paap they are burdening themselves under by doing Nindya of a Brahmgiani like Baba Ji. We had some Nindaks tried to do the same to Sant Jee but no one listens to them anymore. Same is with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. Baba Jee is very much respected by the Sikh masses as a spotless Sikh personality. And God willing, Baba Jee's memory and prestige will be enhanced even more in future

Edited by Jonny101
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1 hour ago, Jonny101 said:

Finally, someone has done a good job in defending Baba Ji. Although I think they could have done even more but even a little bit is good in defending Baba Ji. many snatanis will not like this one bit. It is understandable since they have tried very hard to demonize Baba Ji with lies and pure Nindya. But Baba Banda Singh Bahadur is like the moon. Those who try to spit at the moon will soon regret it when their own spit lands back on their face.

People do not realize how much Paap they are burdening themselves under by doing Nindya of a Brahmgiani like Baba Ji. We had some Nindaks tried to do the same to Sant Jee but no one listens to them anymore. Same is with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. Baba Jee is very much respected by the Sikh masses as a spotless Sikh personality. And God willing, Baba Jee's memory and prestige will be enhanced even more in future

As opposed to the paap you burdened yourself with when you did maha nindya of Baba Binod Singh..... when you was challenged you ran away from this site with your tail between your legs. There's hukamname from Mata Sundar Ji telling the sangat to not follow Banda anymore as he went of the path of gurmat. Rattan Singh Bhangu was from a family of great gursikhs, he's a much more reliable source then any of these other modern 'historians'. 

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1 hour ago, Jonny101 said:

Finally, someone has done a good job in defending Baba Ji. Although I think they could have done even more but even a little bit is good in defending Baba Ji. many snatanis will not like this one bit. It is understandable since they have tried very hard to demonize Baba Ji with lies and pure Nindya. But Baba Banda Singh Bahadur is like the moon. Those who try to spit at the moon will soon regret it when their own spit lands back on their face.

People do not realize how much Paap they are burdening themselves under by doing Nindya of a Brahmgiani like Baba Ji. We had some Nindaks tried to do the same to Sant Jee but no one listens to them anymore. Same is with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. Baba Jee is very much respected by the Sikh masses as a spotless Sikh personality. And God willing, Baba Jee's memory and prestige will be enhanced even more in future

I replied back to you on a similar discussion regarding this particular topic. There, you ran away with your tail between your legs when I put up an audio clip in which Sant Jarnail Singh Ji concurs with Bhangu's perception of Baba Banda Singh. Want me to put it up one more time?

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

As opposed to the paap you burdened yourself with when you did maha nindya of Baba Binod Singh..... when you was challenged you ran away from this site with your tail between your legs. There's hukamname from Mata Sundar Ji telling the sangat to not follow Banda anymore as he went of the path of gurmat. Rattan Singh Bhangu was from a family of great gursikhs, he's a much more reliable source then any of these other modern 'historians'. 

Why would I respect the person who disobeyed his leader at a critical time, got Jageer from the Mughals and then used his power and influence to get his son freed from Mughal captivity while letting hundreds of Singh's get Shaheed in Delhi. He was a Santa Singh of his time period. 

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    • Ok, so it’s gone from rotian to daal/sabji to paneer to saag to smoothies to chywanprash to sukha to trolls to goreh to compromise. I wonder if it will go back to thorka again 🙃😏
    • Here is a pauri by Guru Nanak Dev ji which addresses some of these issues: ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੭    ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਪੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ The Immaculate Lord Himself, by Himself, created Himself. ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਓਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself created the whole drama of all the world's play. ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਆਪਿ ਸਿਰਜਿਅਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself formed the three gunas, the three qualities; He increased the attachment to Maya. ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਉਬਰੇ ਜਿਨ ਭਾਣਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ By Guru's Grace, they are saved - those who love the Will of God. ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਭ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, the True Lord is pervading everywhere; all are contained within the True Lord. ||1||   The shabad states that God created the creation and maya (illusion). The Guru grants Grace and saves those who love God's will. Those who love God's Will will be saved. Meanwhile, the likes of your "friend" will remain entangled in fruitless philosophical arguments. Note: I may quibble with the translation of the first line. Some scholars think that when Gurbani talks of God "creating Himself", it's referring to establishing himself in the Universe.
    • If your "friend" wants to know exactly "how" God created the creation, I would say that that's a totally worthless question. Why does he need to know "how" God created the world and infused with Maya (3 qualities and 5 vices)? Is he planning to create a universe anytime soon? About such philosophical exercises, Guru ji says: ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ 
      Hundreds of thousands of clever thoughts, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end. 
    • Your Christian "friend"''s multiple questions basically just boil down to this one question. The answer is simply that God desired to create the world (Maya) as his divine play, called "khel". Principal Sahib Singh, his his Darpan, quoted many lines from Gurbani that reference "khel": ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ ਖੇਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੰ੍ਰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿਚ ਕਈ ਵਾਰੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ; ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਜੋਂ 

      ਸੁਪਨੰਤਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਭੁ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਖਿਲਾਵੈਗੇ ॥ ਲਾਹਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲੈ ਚਾਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪੈਧਾ 
      ਜਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੫॥੫॥ ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮ: ੪ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ 

      ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਹੈ ਊਤਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇਕੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭੁ 
      ਜਗਤੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਣਜਾਰਾ ॥੪॥ ਕਾਨੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ 

      ਜੈਸੇ ਹਰਹਟ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਟਿੰਡ ਲਗਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਇਕ ਸਖਨੀ ਹੋਰ ਫੇਰ ਭਰੀਅਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਖੇਲੁ 
      ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜਿਉ ਉਸ ਕੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੨॥੮॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੧ 

      ਆਪੇ ਭਾਂਤ ਬਣਾਏ ਬਹੁਰੰਗੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਸਰਬ 
      ਜੀਆ ਨੋ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ॥੧॥੬॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੩ 

      ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ-ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਬੇਵਜੀਰ ਬਡੇ ਧੀਰ 
      ਧਰਮ ਅੰਗ ਅਲਖ ਅਗਮ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਆਪਣੈ ਉਛਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, 
      ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਵਾਹਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਗਗਨਿ ਪਯਾਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਾ 
      ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤੇ ਮੀਠੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਚਨਾ ॥੩॥੧੩॥੪੨॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਸੋ, 
      ਖੇਲੁ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ਜਗਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ  In the end, he defines "khel" as the world drama. Note: In the pre-creation state, there was no sin, nor charity. From Sukhmani Sahib: ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥ When this world had not yet appeared in any form, ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥ Who then committed sins and performed good deeds? ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥ When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi, ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥ Then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?   There are many lines that could be quoted, but this sums things up nicely (21st astpadi of Sukhmani): ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ Shalok: ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਆਪਿ ॥ He possesses all qualities; He transcends all qualities; He is the Formless Lord. He Himself is in Primal Samaadhi. ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੧॥ Through His Creation, O Nanak, He meditates on Himself. ||1||   And so, the command for us, too, is to meditate on God. And that's how your "friend's" questions will be answered, if he's sincere.
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